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So what if hospitals can turn away people that cant pay?

JEDI

JEDI

Lifer
Would our health insurance costs go down?
(yes, at the cost of people dying, literally outside the hospital doors.)

what kind of new grey market would open up?


How about in those countries where hospitals can turn away people that cant pay?
Hows health insurance doing there?
 
Define 'can't pay'?

Meaning you can't pay the full bill right then and there? Meaning that you don't have insurance? What if you are unconscious? Just assume you can't pay if you are not conscious?

If you let people in with insurance and then the insurance doesn't pay it all and the rest either can't or won't be paid, then what?
 
Engineer said:
Define 'can't pay'?

Meaning you can't pay the full bill right then and there? Meaning that you don't have insurance? What if you are unconscious? Just assume you can't pay if you are not conscious?

If you let people in with insurance and then the insurance doesn't pay it all and the rest either can't or won't be paid, then what?
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im sure countries w/'cant pay' hospital polices have figured out these problems
 
JEDI said:
im sure countries w/'cant pay' hospital polices have figured out these problems
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I didn't give problems, I gave questions. I can't answer your question until you give more details about what 'can't pay' means. What does 'can't pay' mean?

If you're advocating that one must pay before getting medical treatment in this country....well, let's just put it this way...Dave would be 'right' much quicker than anyone thought he would be.

Edit: Thinking about it, I think costs would be lowered by those that could afford the services. Since hospitals are not a charity, they pass on the portion of those that don't/can't pay to those that can/will. If you deny coverage to those that can't pay, their portion would not be passed on and the price should be lower for EVERYONE that can pay. Of course, that leaves a large segment without any healthcare at all. Won't turn out well.
 
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JEDI said:
Would our health insurance costs go down?
(yes, at the cost of people dying, literally outside the hospital doors.)

what kind of new grey market would open up?


How about in those countries where hospitals can turn away people that cant pay?
Hows health insurance doing there?
Click to expand...

I dunno. You'll have to check out the 3rd world countries to see how it works for them.
 
Health care costs so much we shouldn't have any, especially for people who can pay for it. We should all be equal. Either that or we should harvest the organs of folk that can't pay.
 
DrPizza said:
I dunno. You'll have to check out the 3rd world countries to see how it works for them.
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Yeah but that's different because people in those countries [insert extremely racist comment]

What if you are unconscious?
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Then you deserve to die obviously. Life is for being awake, not being asleep.
 
JEDI said:
im sure countries w/'cant pay' hospital polices have figured out these problems
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No country has figured out these problems.

Using the extremes:
If it's paid in full upfront, that would allow the health provider the opportunity to gouge depending on the nature of the medical issue (for example, an emergency).
If it's bill later, then the health provider is effectively granting credit, and there's a whole host of issues that go with that (determining credit worthiness, billing, debt collection, etc).
 
JEDI said:
Would our health insurance costs go down?
(yes, at the cost of people dying, literally outside the hospital doors.)

what kind of new grey market would open up?


How about in those countries where hospitals can turn away people that cant pay?
Hows health insurance doing there?
Click to expand...

What you have to look at is dental insurance ad it's not a requirement to treat those without insurance. Unfortunately, no one will research that aspect of it.

I would say that it would be decreased by only fairly large amount for those that are healthy and remain close to the same for those that have bad genetics.
 
Private hospitals have been doing that for decades. I've seen some that don't even have a real ER, just a "trauma room" for expediting care.
 
MagickMan said:
Private hospitals have been doing that for decades. I've seen some that don't even have a real ER, just a "trauma room" for expediting care.
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Obviously then the cost of emergency treatment should be billed to all licenses that practice medicine as a tax on paying patients but not applicable where care is given but as a distribution for the emergency care that is given, with a profit added.
 
Moonbeam said:
Obviously then the cost of emergency treatment should be billed to all licenses that practice medicine as a tax on paying patients but not applicable where care is given but as a distribution for the emergency care that is given, with a profit added.
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Try correct punctuation, run on sentences are a pain to make sense of.
 
Nebor said:
^ MagickMan nailed it, you just don't have an emergency room and those requirements go away.
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What constitutes a real emergency? Snotty nosed kids with a cold, a case of constipation, a minor cut, bee sting, mommy I have a tummy ache, yada, yada, yada.

Emergency is a heart attack, brain hem, stroke, gun shot wound, etc.
 
i dont want treatment if i am unconscious other than maybe some chemicals that would kill me right away. so i need to get a bracelet that says do not resuscitate and wear it all times.

i wish though that physicians who wanted to were allowed to speed up the death of the terminally ill in the State of virginia. they have to give "comfort measures" and that is kind of wasteful for those who would rather die more painlessly/right away.
 
Anarchist420 said:
i dont want treatment if i am unconscious other than maybe some chemicals that would kill me right away. so i need to get a bracelet that says do not resuscitate and wear it all times.

i wish though that physicians who wanted to were allowed to speed up the death of the terminally ill in the State of virginia. they have to give "comfort measures" and that is kind of wasteful for those who would rather die more painlessly/right away.
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You'd rather have poison over smelling salts? Ooookay. 😵
 
JEDI said:
im sure countries w/'cant pay' hospital polices have figured out these problems
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Those that can't pay die.

Healthcare in Myanamar

Basically in Myanamar it's up to you to buy everything, insurance doesn't exist. You pay 100% of everything. If you need surgery then you're supposed to buy the anasthesia, disposables, etc to hand to the doctor before you can get the surgery done. If you can't afford the medicine\surgery\etc then It was nice knowing you, hope you come back in your next life as someone rich.

Here's the funny thing though. The Rich people in Myanamar don't get treated in Myanamar, they actually leave the country for medical procedures. As for cost-saving, go to any store and compare it's prices to a whole-saler. A hospital buying hundreds of bed-pans will be able to get them cheaper then you buying a single one, so in this case it makes everything more expensive.
 
Can't pay... can't pay what?

The massive mark ups of US healthcare insurance "providers"?

The only people who suffer when a sick person can't pay for his/her medical treatment are the shareholders of insurance companies that can't take their vig.

Mr. Uninsured Sick Person comes into the hospital and is treated with about $10,000 worth of procedures and medicine; which probably only cost $2,000. That's $8,000 United, Oxford, Bluecross & Blueshield or whomever can't tap and claim as profit.

Also, social medicine is the answer. It's just absurd how most countries out there can handle free medical treatment,... but, not the USA.

Some 1st world country we are.
 
I don't think non payment by deadbeats is the main cause of rising health care prices. The main culprit is lack of market forces with the unlimited all-you-can-eat for fixed-cost insurance most people demand, especially with medicare. When everyone takes as much as they can grab from the buffet line, the price has to go up. And it's easy to raise prices arbitrarily when you have a middle man paying the bill anyway.

The solution is to make people responsible for their own health care costs. Pass law mandating health care prices are clearly explained and posted up front before services are rendered and encourage people to switch to "real insurance", i.e. a HDHP with HSA instead of the low deductible medical service plans most people have now. When people realize they can save their own money by not getting medical services they don't need and shopping around for the best prices, prices will stabilize and become more efficient over time.
 
Newell Steamer said:
Also, social medicine is the answer. It's just absurd how most countries out there can handle free medical treatment,... but, not the USA.
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There is a finite amount of medical services and products available to be consumed by the populace. No one can have everything they want. There are two ways to deal with this situation: government rationing, or free market. Right now we have a bastardization between the two and have the worst of both systems with the benefits of neither. Clearly a bad deal.

Me, I'd choose the free market approach. That way you can choose whether to save up to pay for your own medical expenses or not, if you live healthily you don't have to subsidize the people who don't. And if you need some new miracle high tech cure, at least you have the option of getting loans or even charity to pay for it. With government rationing, if they deny you treatment you are out of luck e.g. "just take the pain pill and die already" Obama.
 
compuwiz1 said:
What constitutes a real emergency? Snotty nosed kids with a cold, a case of constipation, a minor cut, bee sting, mommy I have a tummy ache, yada, yada, yada.

Emergency is a heart attack, brain hem, stroke, gun shot wound, etc.
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exactly. the problem occurs when uninsured patients show up at the emergency room for tummy aches, minor cuts, bee stings, yada yada because that is their only option.

It's not simply that the patient is uninformed in these cases, it's that they have no other choice, without insurance.
 
zinfamous said:
exactly. the problem occurs when uninsured patients show up at the emergency room for tummy aches, minor cuts, bee stings, yada yada because that is their only option.

It's not simply that the patient is uninformed in these cases, it's that they have no other choice, without insurance.
Click to expand...

Do I need to point out that bee stings can kill some people?
 
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