So, what are you looking forward to in windows 8?

[BD2003]

I agree clean install is the way to go, but it is a major pita. I don't see how they can really improve on it for this iteration other than just simply having it work better. Looking forward though, if they do implement an app store it could make future upgrades significantly easier for consumers. Rather than a crazy upgrade process, they could clean install the OS and auto-reinstall the apps.

In a way it's kind of fortunate that apple is leading the way on this one...perhaps MS stands a chance of actually getting it right if they take notes on what does and doesn't work in the Mac app store.

I'm really curious what the consequences of the ARM version of win 8 are. Especially if nvidia is serious about taking arm to real desktops. Will it likely be like the situation with apple where apps needed to be compiled separately for powerPC and intel? If so, an app store that can hide that from the end user is going to be an absolute must.

 

[HeXen]

Clean installs are a huge PITA. It takes days for me to reinstall and configure everything for work whenever I get a new laptop or have to reload for some reason. Not offering an upgrade option would be an incredible stupid idea. My home Linux installation is like 6yrs old and I have no plans or reason to redo it any time soon. If anything MS needs to make it more seamless so that upgrades "just work".

i got mine down to about 2 hours. the key is to have executables for all 3rd party apps and drivers on a seperate hard drive, ready to go. I install all games to a seperate drive as well.
For applications, i use portables as much as i can, so i just drag n drop from my spare drive to Windows. the few i have to install, of course is all right there on that other drive. anything on CD i rip to that drive... this saves tons of time.
Actually all my 3rd party installs are done within 30 minutes. its the customization of Windows and WU that takes the longest.

For linux, well i don't install much, mine is pretty much default. i change wallpaper, taskbar stuff. thats it. so install is like 40 minutes maybe.

MS already pushes out 3rd party updates for drivers so they're already responsible for 3rd party code. Allowing software developers to register repositories wouldn't make MS any more responsible and it would remove the need for every application to handle updates itself. I hate the fact that Flash, Java, Chrome, etc all have their own update mechanisms and daemons. It's a retarded duplication of work.

i agree. reps are just so much more efficient. Windows overall is pretty sloppy in many areas and some apps update by taking you to the website to download and install it yourself.

 

[Nothinman]

i got mine down to about 2 hours. the key is to have executables for all 3rd party apps and drivers on a seperate hard drive, ready to go. I install all games to a seperate drive as well.
For applications, i use portables as much as i can, so i just drag n drop from my spare drive to Windows. the few i have to install, of course is all right there on that other drive. anything on CD i rip to that drive... this saves tons of time.
Actually all my 3rd party installs are done within 30 minutes. its the customization of Windows and WU that takes the longest.

I don't actually customize Windows that much any more. Win7 is pretty close to good enough out of the box. But even just installing Win7+updates and the dozens of reboots required takes around 2 hours. Then the extra stuff like Office, SSMS, Cisco VPN client, etc take another hour and a half at least. And then after you install office, WU wants to apply more updates and possibly reboot some more. And I can't use portables for most of it because the majority if MS and Cisco software that I want to be in a supported configuration.

For linux, well i don't install much, mine is pretty much default. i change wallpaper, taskbar stuff. thats it. so install is like 40 minutes maybe.

Linux is simpler for me because I just transfer my /home and all of my settings are good. Redoing all of the little things I've setup over the years new again by hand would probably be so difficult that I'd just say forget it and switch to something new.

 

[HeXen]

backup the home directory? i'll keep that in mind but Linux doesnt seem to crap out like Windows does. hopefully i'll never have to install it again.

 

[lxskllr]

backup the home directory? i'll keep that in mind but Linux doesnt seem to crap out like Windows does. hopefully i'll never have to install it again.

I've never had an issue with Windows or Linux that required a reinstallation. I've had it with other people's machines, but I think that was do to user error, not any inherent O/S flaw.

 

[Maximilian]

Nothing, not thing. All ive heard so far is it will be more "cloud based" which i dont like the sound of also there will be more than 1 UI? Dont like that either. Maybe they will integrate facebook with it somehow or do some other things i dont like. Im sticking with 7 until i hear about somthing beneficial to come from windows 8.

They need to update the games folder thing to have more options. Currently you cant even set compatability mode etc on the shortcuts in it... better off making your own folder or having the shortcuts sat about on the desktop.

 

[VampyrByte]

I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" theme that does not look like a complete load of ****! I find Windows 7 to be fairly decent for what I do. But I find myself sacrificing battery life on my netbook by running Aero because the Basic and Classic themes look horrible.
I'd also like to see them overhaul the start menu. Its undergone significant changes since Windows 95. However it is still a total mess. A way to easily have the OS sort your programs, how you would like to launch them etc, and crucially, just the programs. Not the help files, developer website, uninstaller. This can also help with launching programs in different modes, like Firefox and its safe mode. All of this can be integrated into a single icon, in a single place. They have managed it quite well with the Games Explorer. So why not with general applications also?

 

[lxskllr]

I'd like to see a "Windows Classic" theme that does not look like a complete load of ****!

Dude, the old themes available in XP and under looked great, and took minimal resources and disk space. To this day, Rainy Day is one of my favorite themes, and I'd use it occasionally in Vista if it were available.

 

[HeXen]

I've never had an issue with Windows or Linux that required a reinstallation. I've had it with other people's machines, but I think that was do to user error, not any inherent O/S flaw.

if mine was user error, then why do i reinstall Windows and not Linux? I have never had any performance degeneration or sudden issues for no reason in Linux.
If you have never seen an issue with Windows, your not using it hard enough. I do everything on my computers yet Linux always performs like day 1.

 

[lxskllr]

if mine was user error, then why do i reinstall Windows and not Linux? I have never had any performance degeneration or sudden issues for no reason in Linux.
If you have never seen an issue with Windows, your not using it hard enough. I do everything on my computers yet Linux always performs like day 1.

My current Vista install is from fall of 07. Barring hardware issues, it only restarts when I restart it; About once a month on required updates. It runs as well as it did when I installed it. Our old server running Win2000 never restarted. Maybe once a year, if that. Anything with the NT kernel is as solid as it needs to be. Features and business practices between vendors can be argued, but Windows is a solid platform.

 

[jrocks84]

It's possible, but unlikely because it's not the default in any Windows OS and if he were thinking about security enough to run in a limited account you'd think he'd be cognizant about updating his 3rd party apps periodically as well.

I'll have to say it is purely my friend's fault that they aren't updated since they do bug him to update but he ignores the updates all the time. Soon after I posted that I started to receive spam from him in my inbox and I finally convinced him to update his programs. Not updating is far too common of an occurrence from what I've experienced with my less tech-savvy friends.

Allowing third-party programs to link into Windows update would likely reduce the virus infection rate quite a bit. Like you said, each application having its own updater is retarded.

 

[KeypoX]

Clean installs are a huge PITA. It takes days for me to reinstall and configure everything for work whenever I get a new laptop or have to reload for some reason. Not offering an upgrade option would be an incredible stupid idea. My home Linux installation is like 6yrs old and I have no plans or reason to redo it any time soon. If anything MS needs to make it more seamless so that upgrades "just work".



MS already pushes out 3rd party updates for drivers so they're already responsible for 3rd party code. Allowing software developers to register repositories wouldn't make MS any more responsible and it would remove the need for every application to handle updates itself. I hate the fact that Flash, Java, Chrome, etc all have their own update mechanisms and daemons. It's a retarded duplication of work.

would love a package manager like in linux.

Yes, faster bootup is needed for Sure!!

yes for sure, something i know they are working on. SSDs should help too in the next couple of years.

 

[VinDSL]

Holographic keyboard support would be nice...

 

[Nothinman]

would love a package manager like in linux.

Supposedly someone at MS is working on one, for free software at least. I remember reading an article about it at Ars, can't remember the specifics though.

yes for sure, something i know they are working on. SSDs should help too in the next couple of years.

Only if it's a real fast boot though, not this half-assed shit where they make all of the services start asynchronously in the background so that you get to your desktop faster but nothing works for 2min while shit starts up. I've seen so many problems from that already, they don't need to make it work just to placate the benchmark fools.

 

[HeXen]

Supposedly someone at MS is working on one, for free software at least. I remember reading an article about it at Ars, can't remember the specifics though.

they work on a lot of stuff that goes no where. WinFS anyone?

looking over the event logs is pretty interesting, especially if you only do a few specific tasks during that time. I just find it odd how inconsistant it is, under "system" alone i see from bootup times to errors such as homegroup service fails, PNRP service fails, update fails, VSS fails...long list of fails and its all on its own.
i have 195 errors within 24 hours. 1 critical error. For 7 days thats 504 errors, 2 critical, all across 23 different causes just under "system"...all i did was boot up, play Black Ops for 2 hrs and open Firefox....thats all i did all week i think. lol

Most of those records are things i don't notice and maybe its normal for an OS to be so eratic, but in W7, also noticed in Vista/XP. I can literally watch its general performance degrade over time just by looking at daily history showing boot up times, transfer speeds, app loading speeds, fragmentation levels...etc using various apps.

 

[HexiumVII]

Win7 is almost good enough. It probably fixes most annoyances that I have with XP, online driver updates that actually work with almost everything, more stable system overall. Vista is just slow and terrible. Half has to do with the hardware not quite being able to keep up when it was released, the other half is that things just seemed hard to do in Vista. I still have a old PC with a Longhorn install, and it just seems nicer. I hate Vista more than i hate Me.

They really need to improve Explorer. I mean thats bread and butter. It's a bit sad when i have to use Teracopy when i want to do any serious copying. Goodness. While thumbnail browsing is a bit better, it still missing things that something like ACDsee does so well (though Acdsee crashes at almost anything). And one more annoying thing is in detailed view when trying to copy files, it would do "Open With" rather than just copy, thats really annoying, who the hell even uses that function EVER?

 

[lxskllr]

And one more annoying thing is in detailed view when trying to copy files, it would do "Open With" rather than just copy, thats really annoying, who the hell even uses that function EVER?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, but I use "Open With" all of the time. Sometimes I don't want to open something with the default application. That's especially true for image editing. "Open With" lets me edit a picture in Paint.NET instead of just viewing it.

 

[P4man]

I look forward to it being free, at least for the basic version. I dont see how else they are going to keep Google and the other linuxes from grabbing significant chunks of its market share and establish a viable alternative ecosystem, especially on ARM.

Mind you, it will still end up running in a VM on my machine, if at all.

 

[Nothinman]

I look forward to it being free, at least for the basic version. I dont see how else they are going to keep Google and the other linuxes from grabbing significant chunks of its market share and establish a viable alternative ecosystem, especially on ARM.

Mind you, it will still end up running in a VM on my machine, if at all.

I doubt there will ever be a completely royalty free version of Windows, even on ARM. The cost of Windows isn't an issue for OEMs, never really has been. Linux has been truly free for more than 20 years and more than a desktop replacement for easily the last 5, if not longer, and has barely made a dent in Windows' marketshare. Price and technical capabilities aren't issues, 3rd party support (namely games) and marketshare are the issues. Most people don't choose Windows, they're given it with their computer with no alternate choices presented. And this happens because "everyone uses Windows", so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that is only somewhat breaking now because Apple gained a ton of marketshare in the electronic toys arena where no legacy support was required. And now that people have their iToys they're looking at using Apple stuff in more places, like connecting their iPhone or iPad to work Exchange, etc. Google saw this and jumped onboard by putting Android out there, although much later, but they took the MS model of run on everything, cheaply in order to attack Apple. But sadly none of that should have a huge affect on the desktop market. Neither Android or iOS directly translate back to Linux or OS X so writing apps for one doesn't mean anything about desktop support.

All it really means is that MS will have a helluva time gaining any marketshare in the mobile market. Corporate policy and gamers will maintain MS' dominance on the desktop for a decade, easily. So while you may have your company email available on your iPad or Galaxy Tab, if your company security policies are lax enough, that's about the extent of it. You'll still have at least 1 Windows desktop for one thing or another.

 

[P4man]

I doubt there will ever be a completely royalty free version of Windows, even on ARM. The cost of Windows isn't an issue for OEMs, never really has been. Linux has been truly free for more than 20 years and more than a desktop replacement for easily the last 5, if not longer, and has barely made a dent in Windows' marketshare.

Time will tell, but I dont agree. First of all, its worth noting that Linux' marketshare in the worldwide netbook market is not that insignificant (slightly dated, but do have a look here), and this is the market where both ARM and Google (chromeos, maybe android) will make its first appearance.

A second factor that should not be underestimated I think, is that selling linux (ubuntu or whatever other common distro) is difficult; it doesnt have a recognizable brand, it looks unfamiliar, it works unfamiliar, and many people that do try it, will incorrectly assume its "another sort of windows" and be surprised and disappointing if it doesnt run their windows apps. I have seen people try installing apps from a (windows) CDs on ubuntu before they even found the Ubuntu software center.

ChromeOS and the other mobile OSs will not have those problems. Both the brand and the UI will look very familiar, and no one will mistake it for a windows machine.

Price and technical capabilities aren't issues, 3rd party support (namely games) and marketshare are the issues.

Well, again, not for netbooks. Try running a game on your typical Atom netbook.

Most people don't choose Windows, they're given it with their computer with no alternate choices presented. And this happens because "everyone uses Windows", so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that is only somewhat breaking now because Apple gained a ton of marketshare in the electronic toys arena where no legacy support was required.

I dont think its the lack of software. Granted, good linux games are scarce (if we ignore the gazillion android games), but other than games and some very specific niche apps rarely used on a net/notebook (video editing comes to mind), there really isnt anything I miss on Ubuntu. Its more a lack of familiarity, fear even and incorrect assumptions about alternate OS's.

Strangely perhaps, but I do think iOS, QNX, Android and ChromeOS will help educating people about different OSs (at the very least the concept of an "appstore"), and in a few years, I wouldnt be surprised to see a renewed interest in desktop linux because of it. Even if not, ChromeOS, wether you love it or hate, Im pretty sure it will sell fairly well. ~$20 for a windows license is a lot for a netbook which often has a gross margin thats lower than that, then factor in higher cost for drive space and ram requirements.

 

[Nothinman]

Time will tell, but I dont agree. First of all, its worth noting that Linux' marketshare in the worldwide netbook market is not that insignificant (slightly dated, but do have a look here), and this is the market where both ARM and Google (chromeos, maybe android) will make its first appearance.

A second factor that should not be underestimated I think, is that selling linux (ubuntu or whatever other common distro) is difficult; it doesnt have a recognizable brand, it looks unfamiliar, it works unfamiliar, and many people that do try it, will incorrectly assume its "another sort of windows" and be surprised and disappointing if it doesnt run their windows apps. I have seen people try installing apps from a (windows) CDs on ubuntu before they even found the Ubuntu software center.

ChromeOS and the other mobile OSs will not have those problems. Both the brand and the UI will look very familiar, and no one will mistake it for a windows machine.

The article is just going off of what the netbooks ship with, I've seen many forum threads with people reloading their Linux netbooks with Windows. And I'm sure close to zero of them ship Windows and get it replaced with Linux.

Brand recognition issues fall purely on the OEMs. Most of them included 1 or 2 Linux devices to placate the community and did nothing to market or price them properly. And Ubuntu has looked more like OS X than Windows for years now, anyone who mistakes either for Windows shouldn't be attempting to install software on their computer anyway.

Well, again, not for netbooks. Try running a game on your typical Atom netbook.

Which is why so many of them are simply coffee table conversation pieces or meeting note taking devices, they're not good for much else. And the iPad just swooped in and pretty much took over that market.

I dont think its the lack of software. Granted, good linux games are scarce (if we ignore the gazillion android games), but other than games and some very specific niche apps rarely used on a net/notebook (video editing comes to mind), there really isnt anything I miss on Ubuntu. Its more a lack of familiarity, fear even and incorrect assumptions about alternate OS's.

Largely true, I've been running Linux on my desktop at home for the better part of a decade. But every time I look at someone's home PC there's something on there that can't be easily replaced or migrated from. Children's games, MS Money/Quicken, Deer Hunter, etc.

Strangely perhaps, but I do think iOS, QNX, Android and ChromeOS will help educating people about different OSs (at the very least the concept of an "appstore"), and in a few years, I wouldnt be surprised to see a renewed interest in desktop linux because of it. Even if not, ChromeOS, wether you love it or hate, Im pretty sure it will sell fairly well. ~$20 for a windows license is a lot for a netbook which often has a gross margin thats lower than that, then factor in higher cost for drive space and ram requirements.

Kinda, except I doubt anyone new will care about Linux in general because of an Android phone. If anything it'll educate about different OSes and their incompatibilities, but people will only remember brands like Google, Windows, Apple, BlackBerry/RIM (how many people actually know BlackBerry isn't the name of the company?), etc. 3rd party app stores like the one from Amazon may make people more aware of Android as a community, but I doubt that'll help Linux.

But all of that won't really affect Windows' marketshare because all of those are companion devices. Until we get to the point where my phone/tablet is my PC, there will always be a PC to go alongside that device and chances are it'll run Windows.

 

[P4man]

The article is just going off of what the netbooks ship with, I've seen many forum threads with people reloading their Linux netbooks with Windows. And I'm sure close to zero of them ship Windows and get it replaced with Linux.

Strongly disagree. I pretty much cant buy a pc or laptop here that doesnt have windows preinstalled, and it always ends up getting replaced by Linux. That goes for all Linux users I know.

Largely true, I've been running Linux on my desktop at home for the better part of a decade. But every time I look at someone's home PC there's something on there that can't be easily replaced or migrated from. Children's games, MS Money/Quicken, Deer Hunter, etc.

Again I have the opposite experience. Ive installed ubuntu on several family PCs precisely for the kids. Gcompris and tux racer to name just 2 superb ones, but the repository is full of excellent educational and fun software (and the ease of finding and installing more, and the difficulty in bricking or infecting the system compared to windows is quite a nice bonus). I dont know anyone using MS money where I live (wasnt that discontinued anyway?), but there is gnucash, kmymoney and all homebanking apps work just fine on ubuntu here. Two largest banks have native ubuntu packages.

But all of that won't really affect Windows' marketshare because all of those are companion devices. Until we get to the point where my phone/tablet is my PC, there will always be a PC to go alongside that device and chances are it'll run Windows.

That is beginning to happen. Have you seen what was presented at CES? Asus slider, Motorola Atrix,.. thats the first batch of mobile devices that can double as a full PC. These may not be able to replace PCs for everyone yet, but definitely for an increasing amount of people. As these devices continue to get more powerful with custom arm socs from nvidia, apple and probably even MS, as mobile OS's and their apps continue to grow, or move to the web or end up being remotely rendered by services like otoy and onlive, that overlap will increase very rapidly.

FWIW, I used to buy/upgrade my PC every year or two for the last 20 years. No more. I still have an "old' C2Q pc and ~3 year old business laptop, and unless either breaks within the next year or 2-3, I fully expect those to be my last x86 machines. Im waiting for a toshiba AC100 style smartbook done right (and running ubuntu) to replace my laptop, Ill get onlive service here this year to replace whats left of my PC gaming requirement.

Anyway, this is getting slightly OT, but MS ported windows to ARM for a reason; the reason is they feel threatened, and rightfully so.

 

[Rifter]

I can tell you what im not looking forward to, it supporting DX 12 and vista/7 not supporting it.

I would still be on XP or 2000 if MS kept it up to date with DX. I only use windows to game so am only interested in it in a gaming perspective, i find it really stupid how microsoft forces you to buy new windows just to keep playing games. XP was great till i found out no DX 10 or 11 for XP. I really hate MS. XP is still supported but i guess still supported means for anything but gaming.

 

[HeXen]

I can tell you what im not looking forward to, it supporting DX 12 and vista/7 not supporting it.

I would still be on XP or 2000 if MS kept it up to date with DX. I only use windows to game so am only interested in it in a gaming perspective, i find it really stupid how microsoft forces you to buy new windows just to keep playing games. XP was great till i found out no DX 10 or 11 for XP. I really hate MS. XP is still supported but i guess still supported means for anything but gaming.

DX 10/11 require Vista/7's kernal:whiste:
if you recall, dx10 was built from the ground up to support the new display driver model and Vista is not XP. DX11 is a strict subset of DX10.1, they more or less trying to keep up with hardware such as tessalation and GPGPU
It is highly unlikely that there will be a dx12 for W8 which obviously would work on Vista/7 if they built it anyways.

Now there is the little supported Opengl 4.1 which works in XP. but both are designed under 2 completely different thought models and few major games support it.

 

[Rifter]

DX 10/11 require Vista/7's kernal:whiste:
if you recall, dx10 was built from the ground up to support the new display driver model and Vista is not XP. DX11 is a strict subset of DX10.1, they more or less trying to keep up with hardware such as tessalation and GPGPU
It is highly unlikely that there will be a dx12 for W8 which obviously would work on Vista/7 if they built it anyways.

Now there is the little supported Opengl 4.1 which works in XP. but both are designed under 2 completely different thought models and few major games support it.

I am aware of all that, but im sure they could have backported it as ive seen community made patches to get DX 10 on XP so if non MS programmers laking the source code can make it happen then you are never going to convince me MS themselves cant do it. Of course MS wont do it though, then no one would upgrade to vista/7. MS has a habit of forcing upgrades due to stopping DX support, and for me since i use windows for gaming only this has made me VERY bitter towards them.