So the NJ state police are mad at the Virginia Police

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PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: Mill
Kudos for you missing the entire point. You're just like Nik, if something is "illegal" you equate it with bad, reckless, and not good. That's bullsh!t. Your argument was nothing about a standard -- you claimed it was illegal, and that was your reasoning for being happy. You're a typical brow-beater of those that don't fellate every nuance of the law, which is rather sickening in a supposedly free country. What harm came to the state of Virgina or you as a result of them driving 95mph? None. So STFU. It you want equality and a lack of hypocracy, then you better design robots as cops, because you know good and well that if it had been one of the deputy's buddys blowing by at 95 he wouldn't have even moved. He wanted to be an ass to out of state cops -- likely because he was pissed that they had actually been doing something, and he had been sitting on the interstate flogging his cod.

Why does it MATTER if it is illegal? It is fundamentally true the legality is not the same as morality or safety. So, if they weren't morally wrong or being unsafe then why do you care? Mainly because you're a nosy ass that probably loves to snoop and call the police for everything. You uber wannabe-cops get very OLD. Mind your own business.
Wannabe cop? Lol. That's about the last thing I'd ever choose to do. You want to argue that speeding isn't morally wrong and therefore shouldn't be illegal? Fine, go right ahead. But then nobody, neither cop or average person should be stopped for it. I personally think that a lot of speed limits are set to generate revenue, but that's not the point. You either have to enforce a law equally, or have it removed.

Or amend it to be logical. A 70mph speed limit makes little sense. Is a 70 year old man in a Pickup Truck hauling a 5,000 lb trailer have the same ability in his vehicle as a 25 year old Male driving a brand new Camry? Highly unlikely. The current all-or-nothing revenue based approach to limiting excessive speed on our highways is so illogical that it is humorous.

My point was simple, the other cops might have been being asses, but so was this cop. You can bet your ass that he expect to not get pulled over speeding around town when on or off-duty as do his cop friends. But some cops from out of jurisdiction -- well he decided to hassle them

You're never gonna have equality, but that doesn't mean that you keep enforcing a bad law just for the semblance of equality. Bad laws are seldom logical or smart, yet people tend to ignore them. 98% of all people speed. It seems to me that if 98% of all people commit the same "criminal" act, then it is likely it is not criminal.

i think you missed the point mill and so did the others arguing against you. policemen abusing their sirens is more akin to crying "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. basically, each time that privilege is abused by the cops, it makes it that much more unlikely for normal people to concern themselves with emergency vehicles and sirens.

no one in a position of power should be allowed to abuse their privileges. it's not the speeding that is the issue.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Some of you in this thread are complete idiots.

No matter what road you are on, 95mph is uunsafe. Yes, while to some it is still comfortable, but, be that as it may, THEY BROKE THE LAW. I dont give a sh!t if they were 75 in a 65, they are breaking the law. Im not saying i dont usually cruise at ~75 on interstates, because i do. Ii know i am breaking the law, and prepared to accept the consequences if caught.

Unsafe or not, the law is the law!

-Kevin

I love the people that come in and continue to preach that 95 is unsafe, or that the law is the law. PROVE it is unsafe. All you have is a circular argument. Speeding is bad so it is illegal, something wouldn't be illegal if it wasn't bad. That's flawed logic. 95 on the interstate is NOT unsafe.

I love how all of you are just assuming they were on the ONE portion of I-81 in which 95 might be a tad fast. Totally fvcking illogical argument. You've no proof of it, and I HIGHLY doubt these cruisers were sliding through turns. They wanted to get home -- that's all. 95 is NOT unsafe. Speeding is NOT unsafe. Morons who make laws for the supposed good of us ARE unsafe.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Some of you in this thread are complete idiots.

No matter what road you are on, 95mph is uunsafe. Yes, while to some it is still comfortable, but, be that as it may, THEY BROKE THE LAW. I dont give a sh!t if they were 75 in a 65, they are breaking the law. Im not saying i dont usually cruise at ~75 on interstates, because i do. Ii know i am breaking the law, and prepared to accept the consequences if caught.

Unsafe or not, the law is the law!

-Kevin

i agree, 95 is unsafe. anyone who think otherwise is just trying to act tough or prove a point. there is no reason to drive that fast.

What's your proof? 95 is NOT unsafe. Prove that it is. Difference in speed and careless drivers are unsafe, speeding is not. They had their emergency lights on -- motorists were warned -- 95 is not an unreasonable speed anyway.
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: NFS4
Ah man, this is getting nasty :D
"The Virginia authorities never produced any documentation, any radar, any evidence," Speziale's spokesman, Bill Maer, told Media General News Service. "All we have is their word, and we have not found them to be very truthful in the past, so we have no reason to believe them now."

"Why was Virginia the only state that failed to provide a police escort?" [Joseph Occhipinti, executive director of the National Police Defense Foundation] asked, arguing the convoys were vulnerable to possible terrorists attacks.

Holy hell, terrorist attacks??? My oh my...the skapegoating that goes on in this country

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/06/691.asp

9/11! 9/11!!!
You must be a terrorist if you don't agree.
9/11!
 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Some of you in this thread are complete idiots.

No matter what road you are on, 95mph is uunsafe. Yes, while to some it is still comfortable, but, be that as it may, THEY BROKE THE LAW. I dont give a sh!t if they were 75 in a 65, they are breaking the law. Im not saying i dont usually cruise at ~75 on interstates, because i do. Ii know i am breaking the law, and prepared to accept the consequences if caught.

Unsafe or not, the law is the law!

-Kevin

I love the people that come in and continue to preach that 95 is unsafe, or that the law is the law. PROVE it is unsafe. All you have is a circular argument. Speeding is bad so it is illegal, something wouldn't be illegal if it wasn't bad. That's flawed logic. 95 on the interstate is NOT unsafe.

I love how all of you are just assuming they were on the ONE portion of I-81 in which 95 might be a tad fast. Totally fvcking illogical argument. You've no proof of it, and I HIGHLY doubt these cruisers were sliding through turns. They wanted to get home -- that's all. 95 is NOT unsafe. Speeding is NOT unsafe. Morons who make laws for the supposed good of us ARE unsafe.

Ok, nobody can really take you seriously here. Are you honestly suggesting that driving 95MPH is as safe as driving 65MPH? If so, I suggest you need a refresher course in basic physics - you know, energy, momentum, etc.

Even if you in your vehicle are actually safe @ 95 on a particular stretch of road, the vast majority of the rest of the population on the road isn't. And as you said yourself, in your next post, a difference in speed is very unsafe.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Good for the VA Deputy. The NJ State Police have to respect juristicions and VA law.

VA cops are traffic nazis... radar detectors are illegal there.
That may be, but in this case they were perfectly justified in stopping the NJ cops.

95 is simply not an unsafe speed on the interstate.

Only a complete and utter fool would make an ignorant statement like that. There are lots of parts of 81 which are very dangerous to drive at the normal speeds much less 95 mph.

No, only a complete and utter fool would fellate the government and laws like you do. You're one of the most egregious offenders in the area of "if is illegal it is for a reason and that makes it morally wrong" camp. Shows total lack of independent though, and the need to be led around like a sheep.

What proof do you have that they were on a supposed "very dangerous" stretch of 81? You've got one poster who claims he heard it on the radio, and who knows WHERE their source came from. We can make assumptions all day, so mine will be that you're a wimp -- completely unable to live in a society that doesn't have warning labels everywhere, a police officer watching everyone's move, and someone who probably snoops all over their neighborhood like an ass. Anyone who acts as if busting speeders is just "law-enforcement" and not revenue creation is out of their mind. I'm a Criminal Justice Major -- my Professors, the cops in my class, and pretty much everyone has admitted they care NOTHING for writing tickets. It comes from the top; from the mayor or the Chief to product the numbers and the revenue.

Here's something more interesting for you: I worked with a local cop for several months last year, and we would hang out away from work as well (he was up there responding to calls at my work, and we'd normally shoot the sh!t) after awhile. We were at a going away party one night, and I asked him about the ICE units his Department had on 20/59. These ICE Units are out in the median about 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week for about a 5 mile stretch on 20/59. He flat out told me they don't pull over speeders. I had noticed this because I always went by at about 80, and there would be cars going faster than that, and they would never pulled out. Their *sole* job was to stop the transport and smuggling of drugs and currency along that corridor. The revenue from a drug bust or large currency seizure (the department gets to keep the money) far outweighed the revenue from traffic enforcement. Oh, and they could have make beaucoup stops for speeding, because they are one of just two towns for about a 50 mile stretch that can actually enforce speeding laws (I linked to this in another thread <19,000 pop in Alabama means you can't patrol the interstate for speeders).

It is ridiculous to act as if arbitrary speed limits on the Interstate have anything to do with Public Safety. The issue in this country is with untrained drivers, distractions, and the low ability of most drivers in the US to drive at higher speeds. Why? Because they *never* get to. I was just in Europe for over a week. I regularly drove over 120 mph (not kph) as do 80% of the other drivers in the left lane. If someone is going slow and you come up they get over. Passing on the right is highly frowned upon and illegal. Know what? It works. Traffic flows much smoother, and we didn't see a single accident on the highways. Contrast that to the US where you have moral warriors like yourself and others that drag ass doing 50-60 in the Left Lane and won't yield to faster traffic because "they're breaking the law and I'm not."

If you weren't such a smug, self-absorbed, stupid-ass prick you'd realize that YOU are a bigger problem than the speeders.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Armitage
turns. They wanted to get home -- that's all. 95 is NOT unsafe. Speeding is NOT unsafe. Morons who make laws for the supposed good of us ARE unsafe.

Ok, nobody can really take you seriously here. Are you honestly suggesting that driving 95MPH is as safe as driving 65MPH? If so, I suggest you need a refresher course in basic physics - you know, energy, momentum, etc.

Even if you in your vehicle are actually safe @ 95 on a particular stretch of road, the vast majority of the rest of the population on the road isn't. And as you said yourself, in your next post, a difference in speed is very unsafe.
[/quote]

I love the geeks on here. But, but, physics! In science it says that driving faster can result in a more brutal consequence. Well, duh. Does it mean the number of accidents is changed? Nope. You act as if there's a huge difference between a wreck at 65 and 95. There's isn't much of one. Once you top over about 45mph your chances start slimming rather quickly.

It has nothing to do with the majority of the population being unable. They are unable because they've been forbidden. Not a tangible lack of ability, but a lack of chance to learn or practice -- a lack of a chance to become comfortable. The number of people that get killed in Single Car two lane road accidents around here is WAY higher than our Highway fatality rate. Speeding is rarely, if ever, a reason for highway wrecks. Inattention, reckless driving (like people trying to piss of others by enforcing speed limits or their morality), and just a general lack of driver experience.

Even if you in your vehicle are actually safe @ 95 on a particular stretch of road, the vast majority of the rest of the population on the road isn't. And as you said yourself, in your next post, a difference in speed is very unsafe.

The people in question were law enforcement. No doubt that they drive for a living, likely have experience in higher level driving, and had obviously been hauling through other states doing the same. In fact, I know they were. Alabama troopers and local cops around here were giving them daily escorts. The amount of Katrina traffic running down 20/59 to LA has been insane. About half to 3/4's of the cars going Southbound for a good month have been out-of-state people headed down to the Coast. I've seen several packs of LEOs heading down with or without an escort -- speeding with their lights on -- heading down there. The majority of population isn't what is at issue. I said driving 95mph is not UNSAFE. You and others decided to qualify that with Geo Metros with flat-tires, drunk and cracked-out drivers, and whatever hodge-podge of moral turpitude you could come up with.

Fact is, a very large bulk of US cars can handle 95 mph, and are no less safe at 95 than 65. A good many of the drivers would and do need additional training, simply because of how over government has refused to allow higher speeds.

55mph was the standard due to gas shortage, and it was kept that way for supposed "safety" reasons. After data proved it made the roads no less safe they slowly started allowing higher limits, and then finally gave way to the states giving their own limits. Texas has decided to start allowing 80mph on some of their more rural interstates (proof on Wikipedia).

Why is it that in densely populated Europe the speed limit is typically between 120-130 kph in the city, and people go way faster, and then outside the city it is much higher or non-existent? Driver training. Lack of busy body tools imposing their so-called morality and ideas. Courtesy.

I've more of a problem with you jerks that fool around in the left lane doing 60 or 70 than I do with someone doing 95 in the left lane. Get OUT of their way, ignore them so you won't run into the guardrail, put down your cellphone, make-up kits, donut, coffee, and stop thinking about the fight you had with your wife that morning. What's worse, the guy doing 95, or those that are so inattentive that 60mph is a challenge for them?

Difference of speed is a factor, and that's because people in the left lane REFUSE to yield to faster traffic. If you eliminated passing to the right, handed out severe fines for not yielding in the left lane, and moved to graduated licensing and an age of 18 for the highways, you'd have a much lower death rate. No, we are content with an idiotically low limit, bad-drivers (due to their own selfishness and refusal to yield), and a generally lack of common sense regarding traffic in this country. Difference of speed is only a facor because people REFUSE to yield and REFUSE to drive in the proper lane.

 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Some of you in this thread are complete idiots.

No matter what road you are on, 95mph is uunsafe. Yes, while to some it is still comfortable, but, be that as it may, THEY BROKE THE LAW. I dont give a sh!t if they were 75 in a 65, they are breaking the law. Im not saying i dont usually cruise at ~75 on interstates, because i do. Ii know i am breaking the law, and prepared to accept the consequences if caught.

Unsafe or not, the law is the law!

-Kevin

Exactly the type of person I was referring to. The common-sense factor is non-existent here. It doesn't matter the rationale for the law, but only that a group of boozed-out pols -- reacting to the various hysterical mother lobbys -- has passed a law. But think of the Children. THE CHILDREN for God's sake. THE CHILDREN.

Such, stellar logic. The law is the law. The law when it said it was ok to beat your spouse -- well that was the law -- so you needed to follow it! All the bad laws we've repealed in the past were LAWS at one point, and the same babbling sheep had the same argument -- but it's the law. Yep, it is the law. That you've managed to get right. The fact that you unequivocally accept that -- the fact that you consider it being a law is justification for it being righteous and just is exactly what I'm referring to.

There's no logic or common-sense. Just follow the book and the laws and everything will be ok.
 

dabuddha

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
19,579
17
81
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Good for the VA Deputy. The NJ State Police have to respect juristicions and VA law.

VA cops are traffic nazis... radar detectors are illegal there.
That may be, but in this case they were perfectly justified in stopping the NJ cops.

95 is simply not an unsafe speed on the interstate.

Only a complete and utter fool would make an ignorant statement like that. There are lots of parts of 81 which are very dangerous to drive at the normal speeds much less 95 mph.

No, only a complete and utter fool would fellate the government and laws like you do. You're one of the most egregious offenders in the area of "if is illegal it is for a reason and that makes it morally wrong" camp. Shows total lack of independent though, and the need to be led around like a sheep.

What proof do you have that they were on a supposed "very dangerous" stretch of 81? You've got one poster who claims he heard it on the radio, and who knows WHERE their source came from. We can make assumptions all day, so mine will be that you're a wimp -- completely unable to live in a society that doesn't have warning labels everywhere, a police officer watching everyone's move, and someone who probably snoops all over their neighborhood like an ass. Anyone who acts as if busting speeders is just "law-enforcement" and not revenue creation is out of their mind. I'm a Criminal Justice Major -- my Professors, the cops in my class, and pretty much everyone has admitted they care NOTHING for writing tickets. It comes from the top; from the mayor or the Chief to product the numbers and the revenue.

Here's something more interesting for you: I worked with a local cop for several months last year, and we would hang out away from work as well (he was up there responding to calls at my work, and we'd normally shoot the sh!t) after awhile. We were at a going away party one night, and I asked him about the ICE units his Department had on 20/59. These ICE Units are out in the median about 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week for about a 5 mile stretch on 20/59. He flat out told me they don't pull over speeders. I had noticed this because I always went by at about 80, and there would be cars going faster than that, and they would never pulled out. Their *sole* job was to stop the transport and smuggling of drugs and currency along that corridor. The revenue from a drug bust or large currency seizure (the department gets to keep the money) far outweighed the revenue from traffic enforcement. Oh, and they could have make beaucoup stops for speeding, because they are one of just two towns for about a 50 mile stretch that can actually enforce speeding laws (I linked to this in another thread <19,000 pop in Alabama means you can't patrol the interstate for speeders).

It is ridiculous to act as if arbitrary speed limits on the Interstate have anything to do with Public Safety. The issue in this country is with untrained drivers, distractions, and the low ability of most drivers in the US to drive at higher speeds. Why? Because they *never* get to. I was just in Europe for over a week. I regularly drove over 120 mph (not kph) as do 80% of the other drivers in the left lane. If someone is going slow and you come up they get over. Passing on the right is highly frowned upon and illegal. Know what? It works. Traffic flows much smoother, and we didn't see a single accident on the highways. Contrast that to the US where you have moral warriors like yourself and others that drag ass doing 50-60 in the Left Lane and won't yield to faster traffic because "they're breaking the law and I'm not."

If you weren't such a smug, self-absorbed, stupid-ass prick you'd realize that YOU are a bigger problem than the speeders.

I see reading comprehension is not your friend. My only point is that you're a fool for making broad general assumptions like that without any idea of what the area is like.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
Originally posted by: Mill
What's your proof? 95 is NOT unsafe. Prove that it is. Difference in speed and careless drivers are unsafe, speeding is not. They had their emergency lights on -- motorists were warned -- 95 is not an unreasonable speed anyway.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/1999cpr/ch_05/cpm05_3.htm

In 1974, following the implementation of a national maximum speed limit, the number of fatalities declined by 16 percent to 45,196.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speed_manage/overview.htm

Almost 1 of every 3 traffic fatalities is related to speeding, and speeding is a safety concern on all roads, regardless of their speed limits.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speed_manage/docs/speeding_facts.pdf

Speeding ? exceeding the posted speed limit or driving too fast for conditions ? is one of the most prevalent factors related to traffic crashes. The economic cost to society of speeding-related crashes is estimated to be $27.7 billion annually. In 1998, speeding was a factor in about one-third of all fatal crashes.

I suggest you consult the following source and educate yourself before making any more comments.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speed_manage/facts.htm
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Good for the VA Deputy. The NJ State Police have to respect juristicions and VA law.

VA cops are traffic nazis... radar detectors are illegal there.
That may be, but in this case they were perfectly justified in stopping the NJ cops.

95 is simply not an unsafe speed on the interstate.

Only a complete and utter fool would make an ignorant statement like that. There are lots of parts of 81 which are very dangerous to drive at the normal speeds much less 95 mph.

No, only a complete and utter fool would fellate the government and laws like you do. You're one of the most egregious offenders in the area of "if is illegal it is for a reason and that makes it morally wrong" camp. Shows total lack of independent though, and the need to be led around like a sheep.

What proof do you have that they were on a supposed "very dangerous" stretch of 81? You've got one poster who claims he heard it on the radio, and who knows WHERE their source came from. We can make assumptions all day, so mine will be that you're a wimp -- completely unable to live in a society that doesn't have warning labels everywhere, a police officer watching everyone's move, and someone who probably snoops all over their neighborhood like an ass. Anyone who acts as if busting speeders is just "law-enforcement" and not revenue creation is out of their mind. I'm a Criminal Justice Major -- my Professors, the cops in my class, and pretty much everyone has admitted they care NOTHING for writing tickets. It comes from the top; from the mayor or the Chief to product the numbers and the revenue.

Here's something more interesting for you: I worked with a local cop for several months last year, and we would hang out away from work as well (he was up there responding to calls at my work, and we'd normally shoot the sh!t) after awhile. We were at a going away party one night, and I asked him about the ICE units his Department had on 20/59. These ICE Units are out in the median about 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week for about a 5 mile stretch on 20/59. He flat out told me they don't pull over speeders. I had noticed this because I always went by at about 80, and there would be cars going faster than that, and they would never pulled out. Their *sole* job was to stop the transport and smuggling of drugs and currency along that corridor. The revenue from a drug bust or large currency seizure (the department gets to keep the money) far outweighed the revenue from traffic enforcement. Oh, and they could have make beaucoup stops for speeding, because they are one of just two towns for about a 50 mile stretch that can actually enforce speeding laws (I linked to this in another thread <19,000 pop in Alabama means you can't patrol the interstate for speeders).

It is ridiculous to act as if arbitrary speed limits on the Interstate have anything to do with Public Safety. The issue in this country is with untrained drivers, distractions, and the low ability of most drivers in the US to drive at higher speeds. Why? Because they *never* get to. I was just in Europe for over a week. I regularly drove over 120 mph (not kph) as do 80% of the other drivers in the left lane. If someone is going slow and you come up they get over. Passing on the right is highly frowned upon and illegal. Know what? It works. Traffic flows much smoother, and we didn't see a single accident on the highways. Contrast that to the US where you have moral warriors like yourself and others that drag ass doing 50-60 in the Left Lane and won't yield to faster traffic because "they're breaking the law and I'm not."

If you weren't such a smug, self-absorbed, stupid-ass prick you'd realize that YOU are a bigger problem than the speeders.

I see reading comprehension is not your friend. My only point is that you're a fool for making broad general assumptions like that without any idea of what the area is like.

You're a fool for assuming they were driving in the dangerous areas. 90-95% of the Interstate in the US is capable of 100mph speed. Most of that it would be SAFE to drive at that speed with flashing lights depending on the time of day, conditions, and congestion. To automatically assume that they were driving in a snowstorm with bald tires, doing 125 with the rev-limiter pegged, and urinating on passing motorists is a bit much to me. Oh, did I just Pigeonhole you? My bad, only YOU can do that. :roll:
 

miri

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2003
3,679
0
76
Originally posted by: EyeMWing
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Originally posted by: EatSpam
Originally posted by: Heisenberg
Good for the VA Deputy. The NJ State Police have to respect juristicions and VA law.

VA cops are traffic nazis... radar detectors are illegal there.
That may be, but in this case they were perfectly justified in stopping the NJ cops.

95 is simply not an unsafe speed on the interstate.

It is, however, illegal to exceed 80 in the entire state.

The highest speed limit in VA is 65mph.
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,475
1
0
Originally posted by: Mill
You're a fool for assuming they were driving in the dangerous areas. 90-95% of the Interstate in the US is capable of 100mph speed. Most of that it would be SAFE to drive at that speed with flashing lights depending on the time of day, conditions, and congestion. To automatically assume that they were driving in a snowstorm with bald tires, doing 125 with the rev-limiter pegged, and urinating on passing motorists is a bit much to me. Oh, did I just Pigeonhole you? My bad, only YOU can do that. :roll:

https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110

I would suggest you purchase this book and read it but I doubt you would understand it. Suffice it to say that you are dead fvcking wrong.
 

Neurorelay

Platinum Member
Jul 21, 2004
2,195
0
0
Obviously Mill has gotten way off track with arguing his own point.

Back to the main story.

Professional courtesy obviously has its place. But when it is not being extended, one should not be angry that it was not. Courtesy is appreciated, but not to be expected. When I read "fraternal order of police" in NY, my first thought was a frat house; and in this instance, it seems as if NJ officers are acting as such.
 

Lalakai

Golden Member
Nov 30, 1999
1,634
0
76
without deviating from the subject; fellow officers were breaking laws in a neighboring area. When requested to comply with identified state laws, several officers disregarded and continued on their way. When contacted regarding the issue, the sherrif of the offending officers responded in an unprofessional manner and tried to defend the activity with an excuse, then implied that the conduct of the officer who initiated the action, was less then professional, and that the matter would be discussed in the National Sheriff's Association.

Bottom line: complete bs.

The sherrif and offending officers have given the law enforcement in that county and possibly state, a huge publicity problem, that appears to be based on lack of professionalism and a belief that being a law enforcement officer allows them to ignore accecpted laws.

I was raised in a police family and maintain close ties to police agencies, and this is stupid, pure and simple. I've already sent an email to the NJ police, and if the story is factual, would hope that the idiotic sherrif gets his nuts handed to him in a paper sack. Damn, does that sherrif realize how hard he just made it for other officers to do their job??? "Sorry officer for speeding but i just finished working at the emergency room and want to get home, and don't call home because my mom will bitch at you for stopping me".
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
MILL are you on drugs or something!?!??

To even suggest that driving at 95 is just as safe at 65 is ludicrous. Where is your information to back up the statement. I agree in that 65 seems a bit too slow in some parts...however, im not governor. It doesn't matter, if the law is 65 and you go past that YOU BROKE THE LAW. No matter if you dont like the law or not, YOU BROKE IT!!

Additionally, look at all the accidents at 65mph. Imagine the magnitude of some of those accidents if they had occurred at 95!!

Not only that, no matter how good of a driver you are some cars are simply not safe at that speed. My truck is at ~3100RPM at 65MPH. Imagine the RPM at 95.... i would be driving red line!! Furthermore, SUV's already have a very high center of gravity. Make a quick correction or dodge something at 65 and you MIGHT get off lucky, try that at 95...not a chance in hell.

Finally, you have been here long enough. You are now bringing up politics and crap into this mess... cmon... keep OT a little clean, post in P&N if you disagree with the laws and the people who made them.

I dont think we are the one lacking common sense....it would seem that you are.

-Kevin
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Mill
You're a fool for assuming they were driving in the dangerous areas. 90-95% of the Interstate in the US is capable of 100mph speed. Most of that it would be SAFE to drive at that speed with flashing lights depending on the time of day, conditions, and congestion. To automatically assume that they were driving in a snowstorm with bald tires, doing 125 with the rev-limiter pegged, and urinating on passing motorists is a bit much to me. Oh, did I just Pigeonhole you? My bad, only YOU can do that. :roll:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110">https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110</a>

I would suggest you purchase this book and read it but I doubt you would understand it. Suffice it to say that you are dead fvcking wrong.

If you're going to argue that AASHTO's orginal desgins only accomdated 50-70mph that's fine. But don't say design = capability.

I'll quote completely from Wikipedia here:

"Speed limits are only peripherally related to the design speed of the road.

In the United States, the design speed is "a selected speed used to determine the various geometric design features of the roadway" according to the 2001 AASHTO Green Book, the highway design manual. It has been changed from previous versions which considered it the "maximum safe speed that can be maintained over a specific section of highway when conditions are so favorable that the design features of the highway govern."

The design speed has largely been discredited as a sole basis for establishing a speed limit. Current U.S. standards for design speed derive from outdated, less-capable automotive technology. Also, the design speed of a given roadway is the theoretical maximum safe speed of the roadway's worst feature (e.g., a curve, bottleneck, hill, etc.). The design speed usually underestimates the maximum safe speed for a roadway and is therefore considered only a very conservative "first guess" at a limit."

So it other words, designed speeds are the bare minimum standard. They are what we can be assured that 100% the roads are engineered for. Saying that they are capable of 100mph is not wrong at all, and you know that. Hell, I bolded it to begin with, because I figured that someone would come out with the initial AASHTO design recommendation, or otherwise invoke their limits. Fact is, any of the straight, flat interstate in the US (90-95% of the Interstate is), is ENTIRELY capable of 100mph, and is SAFE.

I don't care what the AASHTO says -- their idea is using the design speed, which as I just pointed out, is a pretty outdated method.
 

KLin

Lifer
Feb 29, 2000
30,688
919
126
Those NJ officers had no reason to be speeding. Going 95 mph puts lives in danger. That's my opinion.
 

grrl

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2001
6,204
1
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For f*ck's sake, Mill, take a chill pill and live by your earlier words. Leave the thread to the "children" as you call them.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
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http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/1999cpr/ch_05/cpm05_3.htm

Your link says that speeding is a "contributing" factor in 1/3 of all deaths. Not only is 1/3 pretty small portion, but not the proximate cause -- just a "contributing" factor -- in their opinion. So, even if the cause of the accident was the guy being asleep at the wheel, the fact that he was doing 80mph before he dozed off would be a contributing factor. This is similar to the hysterical stats that MADD uses in which they claim X Percentage of accidents involve alcohol. EVEN if it was neither driver that was drinking, but rather a passenger. Very suspect ways of coming up with an "accurate" idea of what speeding does.

In 1974, following the implementation of a national maximum speed limit, the number of fatalities declined by 16 percent to 45,196.

Correlation != causation. Travel was less due to the gas shortage, how can you claim that fatalities fell due to speed limits? What were the stats for travel that year? It was a significant decline, was it not? My parents were stationed in Tacoma about that time, and they said that hardly anyone took a trip or did recreational driving due to gas-rationing. Might we trying to find something that "says" a reduction in the speed-limit led to the deaths? A correlation -- in which the same time period auto travel was markedly reduced -- is not every convincing or even ethically sound.

Almost 1 of every 3 traffic fatalities is related to speeding, and speeding is a safety concern on all roads, regardless of their speed limits.

Same idea and quote you posted. Related, "contributing" factor, etc are not proximate cause or the actual cause. Try again.



Speeding ? exceeding the posted speed limit or driving too fast for conditions ? is one of the most prevalent factors related to traffic crashes. The economic cost to society of speeding-related crashes is estimated to be $27.7 billion annually. In 1998, speeding was a factor in about one-third of all fatal crashes.

My same comments apply again. More correlation and misuse of stats instead of a decent logical argument.


I suggest you consult the following source and educate yourself before making any more comments.

I'd suggest you give me some definitive proof that US Highways are not CAPABLE of 100mph. I'd suggest you give me proof that Police Officers likely trained in high-speed driving -- and who drive everyday for a living -- in conjunction with US Highways -- are creating an unsafe situation at 95mph. It can't be done. All there can be in this entire argument is rhetoric and conjecture. Actual statistics out there have shown over and over that increasing or decreasing the speed-limit have LITTLE effect on traffic fatalities. Driver education, congestion, conditions of the road, vehicle design/safety, and vehicle condition play the predominate roles. Speeding, quite simply, does not.

 

Armitage

Banned
Feb 23, 2001
8,086
0
0
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: rahvin
Originally posted by: Mill
You're a fool for assuming they were driving in the dangerous areas. 90-95% of the Interstate in the US is capable of 100mph speed. Most of that it would be SAFE to drive at that speed with flashing lights depending on the time of day, conditions, and congestion. To automatically assume that they were driving in a snowstorm with bald tires, doing 125 with the rev-limiter pegged, and urinating on passing motorists is a bit much to me. Oh, did I just Pigeonhole you? My bad, only YOU can do that. :roll:

<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110">https://bookstore.transportation.org/Item_details.aspx?id=110</a></a>

I would suggest you purchase this book and read it but I doubt you would understand it. Suffice it to say that you are dead fvcking wrong.

If you're going to argue that AASHTO's orginal desgins only accomdated 50-70mph that's fine. But don't say design = capability.

I'll quote completely from Wikipedia here:

"Speed limits are only peripherally related to the design speed of the road.

In the United States, the design speed is "a selected speed used to determine the various geometric design features of the roadway" according to the 2001 AASHTO Green Book, the highway design manual. It has been changed from previous versions which considered it the "maximum safe speed that can be maintained over a specific section of highway when conditions are so favorable that the design features of the highway govern."

You bolded the wrong part. This is the key phrase. Given the capabilities of most other cars and drivers out there, the design features of the highway are rarely the limiting factor.

The design speed has largely been discredited as a sole basis for establishing a speed limit. Current U.S. standards for design speed derive from outdated, less-capable automotive technology. Also, the design speed of a given roadway is the theoretical maximum safe speed of the roadway's worst feature (e.g., a curve, bottleneck, hill, etc.). The design speed usually underestimates the maximum safe speed for a roadway and is therefore considered only a very conservative "first guess" at a limit."

So it other words, designed speeds are the bare minimum standard. They are what we can be assured that 100% the roads are engineered for. Saying that they are capable of 100mph is not wrong at all, and you know that. Hell, I bolded it to begin with, because I figured that someone would come out with the initial AASHTO design recommendation, or otherwise invoke their limits. Fact is, any of the straight, flat interstate in the US (90-95% of the Interstate is), is ENTIRELY capable of 100mph, and is SAFE.

I don't care what the AASHTO says -- their idea is using the design speed, which as I just pointed out, is a pretty outdated method.

 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
MILL are you on drugs or something!?!??

To even suggest that driving at 95 is just as safe at 65 is ludicrous. Where is your information to back up the statement. I agree in that 65 seems a bit too slow in some parts...however, im not governor. It doesn't matter, if the law is 65 and you go past that YOU BROKE THE LAW. No matter if you dont like the law or not, YOU BROKE IT!!

Additionally, look at all the accidents at 65mph. Imagine the magnitude of some of those accidents if they had occurred at 95!!

Not only that, no matter how good of a driver you are some cars are simply not safe at that speed. My truck is at ~3100RPM at 65MPH. Imagine the RPM at 95.... i would be driving red line!! Furthermore, SUV's already have a very high center of gravity. Make a quick correction or dodge something at 65 and you MIGHT get off lucky, try that at 95...not a chance in hell.

Finally, you have been here long enough. You are now bringing up politics and crap into this mess... cmon... keep OT a little clean, post in P&N if you disagree with the laws and the people who made them.

I dont think we are the one lacking common sense....it would seem that you are.

-Kevin

Nope, you can continue with the whole "think of the children" and throwing out random red-herrings about your truck and other vehicles, but the simple fact doesn't change that the officer's behavior(s) were not UNSAFE. Perhaps asinine, jerkish, uncalled for, stupid, silly, arrogant or whatever, but not UNSAFE. 95MPH is not UNSAFE.
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: KLin
Those NJ officers had no reason to be speeding. Going 95 mph puts lives in danger. That's my opinion.

Going 65mph in the left lane and not yielding to a speeding vehicle puts lives in danger, but no one cares about that -- even thought it is ILLEGAL as well.
 

mwtgg

Lifer
Dec 6, 2001
10,491
0
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Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Just heard on the radio news...

there is evidence that some of the top guys in the NJSP were charged with changing tests results on the promotional tests.

go figure.

NJ is such a corrupt state, just nuke the place off the map.
 

EGGO

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2004
5,504
1
0
Originally posted by: mwtgg
Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Just heard on the radio news...

there is evidence that some of the top guys in the NJSP were charged with changing tests results on the promotional tests.

go figure.

NJ is such a corrupt state, just nuke the place off the map.


:( Hey I live here. Our police and govt may be corrupt but southern NJ is pretty cool.