So my 4th grader got into trouble today

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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,493
5,708
136
So my daughter came home from school with a warning from her guidance counselor. Evidently my daughter asked a student "Do you believe in God?". The parents of that child came to school and complained about it. The guidance counselor told my daughter that this was harassment. So now we have to meet the teacher next week????

I partially agree with this since this is public school and those type of discussions are generally not allowed. However, my daughter was asking innocently (she is in church school as well) and wasn't trying to harass.

At the same time I'm trying to figure out what type of "oversensitive" parents are these.

So does the OP, the teacher, the administrator, the other student and the other student's parents.

We either go off what was posted or don't bother posting anything to any thread anywhere unless you 100% know all facts.

So yeah, your version has us closing the forums because no one knows for sure about much of anything, or, ya know, we can do what people have been doing since before the discovery of fire.

If the story changes, I'm sure my opinion would too. Just because you take something at face value doesn't mean you assume it's the only possibility. To discourage a discussion taken at face value is obtuse.

Look at it this way, if the OP is correct and the kid's being punished for what were told here, a discussion here prior to him visiting the administrators would be helpful. Right?

If he's not correct there's a million other versions of what could have happened, there's no reason to discuss those possibilities.

I gotta tap out of this one.
I'm not listening to you and you're not hearing me.
I'm argumentative and I need to put the internets down before I get dragged down any further into this hole.

I'll leave this.
I don't think students asking about god or talking about god in school is wrong nor a concern of the school unless it causes disruption.
I don't see why the girl got in trouble based on the comment, so I suspect something else is going on (left unsaid)
I see nothing wrong with the teacher requesting a meeting with the OP after the incident. Teacher obviously has something the parent should know.
If parents call the school, my expectation is that staff take action. Whether its a simple acknowledgement, email or calling a meeting.
 

jagec

Lifer
Apr 30, 2004
24,442
6
81
I remember back in 6th grade when I was going through my religious phase, this obnoxious nerdy atheistic kid (the only one in the school scrawnier and pastier than myself) went up to me and said "God is a bitch, I dare him to strike me down right now if he exists". I should have reported that bastard.

Did you punch him in the face and say "the Lord works in mysterious ways"?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,036
10,526
126
Me thinks you do not understand "freedom of speech" really means. At least not in the U.S.

I have a perfect understanding of it. It's good because it's good, not because it's law. IOW, the particulars of a situation's lawfulness means fuck all. You protect people's speech rights whether or not you're obligated by statute because it's the right thing to do.
 

mrjminer

Platinum Member
Dec 2, 2005
2,739
16
76
I'm not religious, but if I were you I'd call the guidance counselor out on it. Get them to retract the warning. Probably just a kneejerk reaction by an inexperienced counselor to get some psychotic helicopter parents off their ass. You and your daughter shouldn't apologize for shit, since she didn't do anything wrong.

However, if they refuse or take any other action against your daughter, report it to the local paper and sue them if necessary. The last thing the school will do is wage a war against freedom of religion they have no chance of winning.

You have the upper hand, assuming that's all that happened.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Scary you are going to be a teacher.

It's none of a teacher's business to speak to a child about their religion.

Luckily I'll never be near children as I'm going to teach at a university; but thanks for remembering.

If a religious claim is made by a child as though it is scientific fact then the scientific consensus seems reasonable to discuss in school. Freedom of speech should go both ways.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
I'd go a step further and say by making this an issue they are not protecting the OP's kid's rights.

"let's not talk about that here", from the teacher, suppresses the kid's rights. Teachers and school officials can't say this shit. That's a parental decision, in general.

Sigh . . . what right is that? And before you say the freedom of speech you might want to read up on that particular right a bit. Not the freedom of religion either.
 

Sho'Nuff

Diamond Member
Jul 12, 2007
6,211
121
106
I have a perfect understanding of it. It's good because it's good, not because it's law. IOW, the particulars of a situation's lawfulness means fuck all. You protect people's speech rights whether or not you're obligated by statute because it's the right thing to do.

So let me get this straight . . . You are saying that if a kid is disturbing class by talking, the teacher can't tell them to shut up because it infringes their rights? Right?

LOL.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,036
10,526
126
So let me get this straight . . . You are saying that if a kid is disturbing class by talking, the teacher can't tell them to shut up because it infringes their rights? Right?

LOL.

Because that's exactly what this story's about

L o fuckin' L :^S
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Sigh . . . what right is that? And before you say the freedom of speech you might want to read up on that particular right a bit. Not the freedom of religion either.

Also CHILDREN are not protected by the Bill of Rights.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
70,568
13,803
126
www.anyf.ca
When I went to school we often talked about religion and such and it was just a normal conversation. No hate about it. Mind you a bunch of us were Christian too, but not everyone was, there was lot of catholics and probably atheists too, but everyone got along and nobody got in trouble over it. Sad how it's become such a sensitive topic these days.
 

T9D

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2001
5,320
6
0
When I went to school we often talked about religion and such and it was just a normal conversation. No hate about it. Mind you a bunch of us were Christian too, but not everyone was, there was lot of catholics and probably atheists too, but everyone got along and nobody got in trouble over it. Sad how it's become such a sensitive topic these days.

Mostly because of all the God hating liberals that are in the school system. And all the pro gay parents that hate all religion because it teaches something different than their belief. They go bat crazy if someone mentions God.
 

RandomAhearne

Member
Oct 19, 2014
118
0
0
So let me sum up...

Screwed up public school system, check
Little girl just being a little girl, check
Some other kid overreacting, check
Some adult in charge going batshit crazy over above, check
Umm, profit?
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
Mostly because of all the God hating liberals that are in the school system. And all the pro gay parents that hate all religion because it teaches something different than their belief. They go bat crazy if someone mentions God.

crClrO9.jpg
 

SolMiester

Diamond Member
Dec 19, 2004
5,330
17
76
So my daughter came home from school with a warning from her guidance counselor. Evidently my daughter asked a student "Do you believe in God?". The parents of that child came to school and complained about it. The guidance counselor told my daughter that this was harassment. So now we have to meet the teacher next week????

I partially agree with this since this is public school and those type of discussions are generally not allowed. However, my daughter was asking innocently (she is in church school as well) and wasn't trying to harass.

At the same time I'm trying to figure out what type of "oversensitive" parents are these.

Sounds like the parent of the other child are a bit precious to me....Im with you on this!
 

Dude111

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2010
1,497
7
81
steppinthrax said:
So my daughter came home from school with a warning from her guidance counselor. Evidently my daughter asked a student "Do you believe in God?". The parents of that child came to school and complained about it. The guidance counselor told my daughter that this was harassment.
Totally insane!!!!

THIS COUNTRY HAS GONE BAT SHIT!!!!!!!!!

I would threaten to expose them to the media....... THAT IS JUST CRAZY -- NO WAY WAS IT HARRASSMENT!!!


I feel so bad for your daughter!!!
 

dougp

Diamond Member
May 3, 2002
7,909
4
0
The Constitution does not disagree with me, however; we have given too much power to children.

How does the Constitution not disagree with you? It only pertains to US Citizens, which kids are. Regardless, parents have given too much power to their children - don't put blame on the government for not doing the parents jobs.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
How does the Constitution not disagree with you? It only pertains to US Citizens, which kids are. Regardless, parents have given too much power to their children - don't put blame on the government for not doing the parents jobs.

Black people and women didn't have rights in the beginning. Parent's have a right to raise their kids accordingly which would deem the constitution invalid for them.

It's a complicated thing.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
So let me get this straight . . . You are saying that if a kid is disturbing class by talking, the teacher can't tell them to shut up because it infringes their rights? Right?

LOL.

Yes, it's the 1st and 14th with regard to religion. Basically as long as they aren't significantly disturbing the class they can express their religion.

Saying a short prayer=OK.
Leading a sermon=Not OK.
Technically, saying a prayer could "disturb class", but it's protected.

Wearing a cross= OK
Dragging a full sized cross through school=Not OK.
Technically, a cross could violate dress code, but it's protected.

That's my basic understanding, I could be off base here, but I read a number of cases a few years ago on the subject.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,852
33,912
136
How does the Constitution not disagree with you? It only pertains to US Citizens, which kids are. Regardless, parents have given too much power to their children - don't put blame on the government for not doing the parents jobs.
Not true. The Constitution enumerates rights of persons, citizens, states, and the people. Most of the Bill of Rights applies to persons, not just citizens.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
Good luck if a parent decides against that.

Equal protection doesn't give a fuck. As long as the aggrieved party can afford to fight it, or can find activists who can, that crap isn't going to fly. The current accepted interpretation of the 14th handily overrules state constitutional amendments and centuries of precedent where the rights of racial and sexual minorities are concerned, why would minors be any different?

I'd also like to point out that there's been a lot of sound and fury on this general topic, and our OP hasn't even talked with anyone at the school yet.