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So it turns out obesity is not okay

Protoman25

Protoman25

Member
So I originally posted in the "fat shaming"/obesity thread over in OT and was recommended I bring my story over here for support.

Long story short I graduated at 180 pounds at the height of my athleticism when I played soccer and did marching band for all of high school, I dated and then married my wife and together we have gained weight for ten years to where I am now at 250 pounds. I have tried dieting and exercise throughout the years but always gave up. I had started another diet last Tuesday and by the end of the weekend I was already slipping again. This last Monday I found that thread and it was the kick in the pants I needed to realize what I was doing to myself.

So since Monday I've been watching my calories (staying around 1700 a day) and I increased the amount I walk as well. Yesterday I also started some HIIT on my exercise bike, starting out small since I'm not in very good shape. When I weighed myself this morning I was at 244.9. I realize the progress probably won't always be this fast. My ultimate (unlikely) goal is to be <200 pounds before my 2nd son is born in October. I know it might not happen but it'd be nice.

So if anyone has any tips or comments on things I can try, or foods I should eat, or anything like that I would definitely appreciate it.
 
I don't know how others feel about these sites but these were/are some of my favorites - I believe they are by the same person.

Workout information:

http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/

Dietary information:

http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/ (click on the table of contents link on the right hand side - "The best diet plan" - to get to a list)

A bunch of information - in which I believe is, overall (at a one site stop), some of the better information out there.
 
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One piece of advice that has been important to my health and maintaining my conditioning as I get older is to stay away from sugar...especially sugary drinks (this includes juice of any kind). While calories in/calories expelled is the formula for losing weight, the type of calories you consume makes a huge difference in your actual health (not just your waste line) and how difficult it is to keep your calorie count down.

I do consume a lot of whole fruit (which has sugar), but those calories contain a lot more than sugar to keep you full and nourish you.

I also limit the amount of meat that I eat. Instead eat a lot more beans and other sources of protein. I do eat meat, but always in small portions and more as a flavor enhancer instead of the main course (for instance I make a great lentil "salad" that I put a small amount of prosciutto in for flavoring).

Another suggestion is to find a hobby that involves exercise. It is easy to get sidetracked from gym type exercise that is boring/feels like work. My hobby is mountain biking. While I do a lot of additional exercise, mountain biking is the exercise that I really enjoy. To kick it up a notch, I am competitive on my times on various climbs to push my conditioning (I use Strava to record) and then I just enjoy the downhills knowing I've earned it. Biking doesn't have to be yours, but maybe it is soccer, basketball, running, or hockey.

I'm not a cross-fit person, but some people really meld well with the group training mentality. If you think that might be you, might be worth checking out the local scene and going to a couple of their free classes. A lot of the places have membership that is also relatively focused on food (often too narrow and too subscribed to a specific diet...but can be a good starting point if you think you have bad eating habits).

Good luck and keep us informed!
 
IMO the best thing you can do is find some form of exercise that you like doing. For me it is crossfit. I love it and so I keep going. Whatever it is for you, find it. Changing your diet is a start. But diet AND exercise are really the key to good health. And when you exercise hard, you will be more inclined to not slip with your diet.

Good luck.
 
Protoman25 said:
So I originally posted in the "fat shaming"/obesity thread over in OT and was recommended I bring my story over here for support.

Long story short I graduated at 180 pounds at the height of my athleticism when I played soccer and did marching band for all of high school, I dated and then married my wife and together we have gained weight for ten years to where I am now at 250 pounds. I have tried dieting and exercise throughout the years but always gave up. I had started another diet last Tuesday and by the end of the weekend I was already slipping again. This last Monday I found that thread and it was the kick in the pants I needed to realize what I was doing to myself.

So since Monday I've been watching my calories (staying around 1700 a day) and I increased the amount I walk as well. Yesterday I also started some HIIT on my exercise bike, starting out small since I'm not in very good shape. When I weighed myself this morning I was at 244.9. I realize the progress probably won't always be this fast. My ultimate (unlikely) goal is to be <200 pounds before my 2nd son is born in October. I know it might not happen but it'd be nice.

So if anyone has any tips or comments on things I can try, or foods I should eat, or anything like that I would definitely appreciate it.
Click to expand...

First thing that I'd recommend is increasing your caloric intake.
Years ago I tried to stick to a 1600 calorie diet and it was tough and needless to say it didn't work.

For myself (6'0" 216lbs) I've been sticking to around 2500 calories a day which is essentially what I've been doing since I began losing weight when I was 387lbs.
Still losing at about a pound a week right now. I'm also trying to build muscle so I don't want to starve myself for obvious reasons.

You have a combination of physical, dietary, and psychological needs to meet in order to stay on track


First off you need to look at weight loss like a lifestyle change and not just a temporary change. The things that I'm doing now are the things that I plan to do for the rest of my life both dietary and physically speaking. I developed an schedule and I stick to it during the week and I'll allow a burger and fries or a steak on the weekend.


Now I don't know your age, physical activity levels, metabolism etc. to know what your caloric intake should be, but I'd recommend consuming about 2000 calories per day and maybe bumping it up to 2200 on work out days. Also, if you can try to rely less on anything pre packaged. The amount of refined sugar they add to food is insane. I recently started eating plain unsweetened oatmeal and adding only one packet of "Sugar in the Raw" per cup and cut out a solid 10+ grams of sugar out of my breakfast. Start paying attention to they sugar that's in the food you eat. You'll be shocked.


have a combination of physical, dietary, and psychological needs to meet in order to stay on track and what it boils down to is that Everybody is different and I recommend simple trial and error. If you find something that gives you results and you're not compromising your own health and you feel like you can stick with it in a long term, then keep doing it. If not, try something else.

I've been up and down the scale many times and I've tried many different things and here is a general run down of tips that are tried and true for me.


  • Eat a large healthy breakfast, a medium sized lunch, and a light dinner (about 4 hours prior to bedtime) while allowing for a couple of snacks in between.
  • Try to stick to a regular waking/sleeping schedule. I know it's not easy for everyone, but I have found it to be a very important factor in terms of weight loss and weight control.
  • Moderate your intake of caffeine and other stimulants. I know that sometimes you need a little extra push to get to working out after work. I get that. But don't make the mistake of thinking that you can replace needed rest with stimulants. For myself I find that 1-2 cups of coffee per day (no later than 2pm) is about right for me. It gets me going and it doesn't disturb my sleep and it even seems to help curb my appetite a little. However sometimes I'll get to drinking too much coffee which will make it hard to fall asleep and stay asleep which will cause me to drink more the next day. Too much sends my appetite out of balance and it becomes a bad cycle that's not always easy to stop.
  • Don't miss workout days. I find that the days you don't feel like working out are the most important days not to miss. It's too easy to get sidetracked by missing time. If you really don't feel like it, just take it easy with your exercise. Walk instead of run, take an easier route, etc. The main point is just getting out there and doing something on a regular basis. Sometimes you won't feel like working out, and you'll get out there just to take it easy and suddenly you'll be motivated to do more.
  • Get used to snacking on vegetables and fruits. Eventually you'll find yourself wanting them more so than junk food.
  • Focus on getting protein and fiber into your diet. Counting calories is a good start and it will help you lose weight, but what those calories consist of can increase the effectiveness of your diet. Turkey, Chicken Breast, Tuna, Cottage Cheese, Plain Yogurt are all excellent sources of protein that contain very little relative fat. Oatmeal, Cheerios, Bran Flakes are good sources of fiber.
  • Drink plenty of water and try not to rely too heavily on artificially sweetened drinks. I personally drink about 2 diet drinks per day and the rest is water. Ideally I shouldn't drink any diet drinks but I need something else to get me through a day.
  • Find other ways to get exercise. It's easy to get burned out by doing the same thing so for cardio type stuff I often switch between the elliptical, treadmill and the exercise bikes.
 
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88keys said:
First thing that I'd recommend is increasing your caloric intake.
Years ago I tried to stick to a 1600 calorie diet and it was tough and needless to say it didn't work.

For myself (6'0" 216lbs) I've been sticking to around 2500 calories a day which is essentially what I've been doing since I began losing weight when I was 387lbs.
Still losing at about a pound a week right now. I'm also trying to build muscle so I don't want to starve myself for obvious reasons.

You have a combination of physical, dietary, and psychological needs to meet in order to stay on track


First off you need to look at weight loss like a lifestyle change and not just a temporary change. The things that I'm doing now are the things that I plan to do for the rest of my life both dietary and physically speaking. I developed an schedule and I stick to it during the week and I'll allow a burger and fries or a steak on the weekend.


Now I don't know your age, physical activity levels, metabolism etc. to know what your caloric intake should be, but I'd recommend consuming about 2000 calories per day and maybe bumping it up to 2200 on work out days. Also, if you can try to rely less on anything pre packaged. The amount of refined sugar they add to food is insane. I recently started eating plain unsweetened oatmeal and adding only one packet of "Sugar in the Raw" per cup and cut out a solid 10+ grams of sugar out of my breakfast. Start paying attention to they sugar that's in the food you eat. You'll be shocked.


have a combination of physical, dietary, and psychological needs to meet in order to stay on track and what it boils down to is that Everybody is different and I recommend simple trial and error. If you find something that gives you results and you're not compromising your own health and you feel like you can stick with it in a long term, then keep doing it. If not, try something else.

I've been up and down the scale many times and I've tried many different things and here is a general run down of tips that are tried and true for me.


  • Eat a large healthy breakfast, a medium sized lunch, and a light dinner (about 4 hours prior to bedtime) while allowing for a couple of snacks in between.
  • Try to stick to a regular waking/sleeping schedule. I know it's not easy for everyone, but I have found it to be a very important factor in terms of weight loss and weight control.
  • Moderate your intake of caffeine and other stimulants. I know that sometimes you need a little extra push to get to working out after work. I get that. But don't make the mistake of thinking that you can replace needed rest with stimulants. For myself I find that 1-2 cups of coffee per day (no later than 2pm) is about right for me. It gets me going and it doesn't disturb my sleep and it even seems to help curb my appetite a little. However sometimes I'll get to drinking too much coffee which will make it hard to fall asleep and stay asleep which will cause me to drink more the next day. Too much sends my appetite out of balance and it becomes a bad cycle that's not always easy to stop.
  • Don't miss workout days. I find that the days you don't feel like working out are the most important days not to miss. It's too easy to get sidetracked by missing time. If you really don't feel like it, just take it easy with your exercise. Walk instead of run, take an easier route, etc. The main point is just getting out there and doing something on a regular basis. Sometimes you won't feel like working out, and you'll get out there just to take it easy and suddenly you'll be motivated to do more.
  • Get used to snacking on vegetables and fruits. Eventually you'll find yourself wanting them more so than junk food.
  • Focus on getting protein and fiber into your diet. Counting calories is a good start and it will help you lose weight, but what those calories consist of can increase the effectiveness of your diet. Turkey, Chicken Breast, Tuna, Cottage Cheese, Plain Yogurt are all excellent sources of protein that contain very little relative fat. Oatmeal, Cheerios, Bran Flakes are good sources of fiber.
  • Drink plenty of water and try not to rely too heavily on artificially sweetened drinks. I personally drink about 2 diet drinks per day and the rest is water. Ideally I shouldn't drink any diet drinks but I need something else to get me through a day.
  • Find other ways to get exercise. It's easy to get burned out by doing the same thing so for cardio type stuff I often switch between the elliptical, treadmill and the exercise bikes.
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It's been awhile since my first post but I found what you and everyone else said to be true. Having my caloric intake be that low is not sustainable and doesn't work in the first place. My weight loss stopped and when I started eating normal I gained all the weight back and more. Lesson learned there.

I did some reading and understand BMR and how all that works now. I appreciate your post and have read it multiple times since then to try and ingrain this stuff into my brain. The primary question I have now is about what type of exercise I should be doing. I really don't care much about getting ripped or anything and I have an elliptical at home. Could I just do that 30-60 minutes a day or a few times a week? I don't want to overdo it is the main issue.

Another question I have is about BMR. I did the formula and it said my BMR is 2300 and my maintenance is 3200. As per your post I've been trying to keep my calories around 2500. My question is, on days where I do exercise and burn say, 800 calories or something, do I need to ensure that my deficit doesn't make my daily intake fall below 2300?

Again any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
 
Glad to hear you are still chugging away at this.

The elliptical USA good option, but I would also mix in some strength training (even just sit-ups, pull-ups, and push-ups would be beneficial). Also, nearly any kind of machine is a little too focused muscle wise. It is good to have and a great starting point, but I would mix it up with walking/jogging, stair climbing, and even rowing if possible.
 
Regarding training:

If you had to choose between resistance training and cardio I'd recommend resistance training. And, specific to resistance training I'd recommend big, compound movements like squats and deadlifts.

Regarding eating:

I would recommend flexible dieting: https://healthyeater.com/flexible-dieting. I've experienced great results and DavidPaul007 has also posted about a similar diet on these forums with impressive results: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2395429&highlight=
 
I've been reading through that flexible diet website and it's very interesting. I read the article about Jim losing 88 pounds (here: https://healthyeater.com/jim-lost-88-pounds) and I noticed that he said he knew his body needed 9600Kj a day and cut it down to 5000Kj. But isn't that too much of a deficit? Wouldn't that lower his metabolism to where his weight loss would grind to a halt like mine did?
 
88keys said:
First off you need to look at weight loss like a lifestyle change and not just a temporary change. The things that I'm doing now are the things that I plan to do for the rest of my life both dietary and physically speaking. I developed an schedule and I stick to it during the week and I'll allow a burger and fries or a steak on the weekend.
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The above is the truth. Some people can't go back to what they used to consider "normal" caloric intake after they hit their goal weight - it will only cause them to balloon back up to where they were before. Some of us just have really low metabolisms. Even though I run ~40 miles/week, I still have to limit my calorie intake to ~2000, or I'll start packing on the pounds. Until you're ready to accept that reality, you won't have sustained success.

The other great advice already mentioned is finding a physical activity/hobby which you enjoy. Exercise needs to be part of your life on a regular basis. I've met tons of people who start exercising to lose weight, hit their goal, go back to the couch, and then seem amazed they gain all the weight back. Most of us don't get nearly enough physical activity from our jobs/regular lives, and need to find some form of physical exercise we enjoy (or can at least stick with).

Best wishes to you.
 
I think what is kind of frustrating to me is I'm getting a bunch of different information from a bunch of different sites. Some sites say my maintenance caloric intake is 2144, others say I need to eat 2200 to lose weight; which seems contradictory.

If it helps I'm 28, 6 ft tall, and 250 pounds. If someone could help me out I would appreciate it.

Also I walk each day, just recreationally during breaks at work, between 1.5 - 2.5 miles usually.
 
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Protoman25 said:
I think what is kind of frustrating to me is I'm getting a bunch of different information from a bunch of different sites. Some sites say my maintenance caloric intake is 2144, others say I need to eat 2200 to lose weight; which seems contradictory.

If it helps I'm 28, 6 ft tall, and 250 pounds. If someone could help me out I would appreciate it.

Also I walk each day, just recreationally during breaks at work, between 1.5 - 2.5 miles usually.
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There is no set answer for everyone. Metabolic rates vary hugely between individuals, and also during the lifespan of a single individual. We've all known people (I certainly have) who inhale food like vacuum cleaners and are still rail-thin. I run far more mileage than my teenage son does for his cross-country training, but he can still eat almost twice as many calories as me, and maintain his extremely thin body type. If I did the same, I'd gain the pounds quickly.
 
That's understandable. So I guess what it comes down to is just experimenting to see what works. I guess my game plan for now is eat around 2200 calories a day, plus any additional calories I burn during my exercises. Can't do any worse than trying to near-starve myself like I was before.
 
Protoman25 said:
That's understandable. So I guess what it comes down to is just experimenting to see what works. I guess my game plan for now is eat around 2200 calories a day, plus any additional calories I burn during my exercises. Can't do any worse than trying to near-starve myself like I was before.
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At 6' and 250 lbs I would expect you to lose weight at 2200. I'm 5'6" and eating 2079 calories a day and have lost 28 lbs since April (starting weight: 185, current weight: 157). Keep in mind that I do crossfit 6 days a week (M-Sa) so some amount of my deficit is due to exercise in addition to the lowered caloric intake (I calculated my maintenance at 2379 and subtracted 300 for my target with 166g of target protein, 166g target carbs, 83g target fats). I also weigh all my foods and weigh myself every morning but use a weekly average to ensure I'm still losing weight. Otherwise, I'd readjust my macros and caloric target.
 
Just my opinion, but I think you are getting to far into the weeds. IMHO, you should do the following:

1) start at a decent calorie count (2500) of good, nutritious food (no sugar, good protein, nice mix of veggies...throw in fruit to conquer any sweet cravings)
2) start exercising regularly and start pushing yourself.
3) slowly creep back on food intake and pay attention to how it is affecting your exercise. If it hurts your exercise...hold off on dropping any more calories until your exercising regains momentum.

Just keep doing #3 until you find a good balance of caloric intake and exercise ability.

In the mean time, you can make adjustments to the food you eat and the exercises you do as you do more research and see how your body responds.
 
PricklyPete said:
Just my opinion, but I think you are getting to far into the weeds. IMHO, you should do the following:

1) start at a decent calorie count (2500) of good, nutritious food (no sugar, good protein, nice mix of veggies...throw in fruit to conquer any sweet cravings)
2) start exercising regularly and start pushing yourself.
3) slowly creep back on food intake and pay attention to how it is affecting your exercise. If it hurts your exercise...hold off on dropping any more calories until your exercising regains momentum.

Just keep doing #3 until you find a good balance of caloric intake and exercise ability.

In the mean time, you can make adjustments to the food you eat and the exercises you do as you do more research and see how your body responds.
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Yeah I can see how you'd think that. I'm one to over research something when I don't understand it and I'm probably doing the same here.
 
You should gradually cut back on the sugar, not go cold turkey. Your body has adapted to your sugar intake. But sugar is a major factor in most peoples weight gain.
 
People tend to over complicate weight loss. In my opinion, I found more success once I went back to basics and kept it simple, KISS so to speak.

In short, as long as you eat enough protein and fats per day, the rest doesn't matter as long as you are in enough of a caloric deficit to lose weight. Sure, you want to eat healthy, I'd never say that it's totally cool to munch on cake or fast food, but if you did... As long as you kept the calories under that sweet spot to lose weight, it's going to be fine. I wouldn't make it a habit, but I'm a fairly firm believer in If It Fits Your Diet life style. It's more of a mental thing than physical. If you completely resist all the yummy treats that you crave out of the diet for good, I 100% promise you that you will break one day and go binge eating. It's happened to me.

Eating well and eating less is what is going to get you to drop weight. Hitting weights at least 3x a week is a must as well if you want to maintain muscle & strength and avoid becoming "skinny fat".

And just an opinion on my part, I think 1700 cals is too low for you right now. Think about it; in 6 months how much are you going to eat? 1500 cals? 1200 cals? 1700 is too low unless you aren't exercising at all.

For reference, I lift 3x a week and do cardio 2x a week. I weight about 184lb and eat 2400 calories a day. I am trying to lose weight at ~.5-1lb/week.
 
z1ggy said:
People tend to over complicate weight loss. In my opinion, I found more success once I went back to basics and kept it simple, KISS so to speak.

In short, as long as you eat enough protein and fats per day, the rest doesn't matter as long as you are in enough of a caloric deficit to lose weight. Sure, you want to eat healthy, I'd never say that it's totally cool to munch on cake or fast food, but if you did... As long as you kept the calories under that sweet spot to lose weight, it's going to be fine. I wouldn't make it a habit, but I'm a fairly firm believer in If It Fits Your Diet life style. It's more of a mental thing than physical. If you completely resist all the yummy treats that you crave out of the diet for good, I 100% promise you that you will break one day and go binge eating. It's happened to me.

Eating well and eating less is what is going to get you to drop weight. Hitting weights at least 3x a week is a must as well if you want to maintain muscle & strength and avoid becoming "skinny fat".

And just an opinion on my part, I think 1700 cals is too low for you right now. Think about it; in 6 months how much are you going to eat? 1500 cals? 1200 cals? 1700 is too low unless you aren't exercising at all.

For reference, I lift 3x a week and do cardio 2x a week. I weight about 184lb and eat 2400 calories a day. I am trying to lose weight at ~.5-1lb/week.
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What you said there is pretty much the realization I've come to after trying my "starvation" diet. I raised my caloric intake to around 2200 + whatever calories I burn exercising and as of right now I'm not really changing my diet very much. Still eating the same kinds of things, but making sure that it fits within the 2200 +extra range. I'm sure this will end up being a lot more sustainable since I'm not depriving myself of what I enjoy anymore.

As far as weights go I know a lot of people here are into them but I never really cared honestly. I played a lot of soccer and sports when I was younger so I wasn't ripped but I was fit. I just want to get back to that if I can. Maybe I'll look into buying some cheap weights or something. I don't have time for a gym membership anymore.
 
As far as weights go I know a lot of people here are into them but I never really cared honestly.
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Gaining/maintaining muscle is a key part of keeping the fat off. 1lb of fat burns nearly zero calories/day. 1lb muscle, 50 calories just by being there.
 
highland145 said:
Gaining/maintaining muscle is a key part of keeping the fat off. 1lb of fat burns nearly zero calories/day. 1lb muscle, 50 calories just by being there.
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Well I'm slightly embarrassed to say I didn't know that. I will definitely start looking into some weights then. Thanks :thumbsup:
 
Protoman25 said:
What you said there is pretty much the realization I've come to after trying my "starvation" diet. I raised my caloric intake to around 2200 + whatever calories I burn exercising and as of right now I'm not really changing my diet very much. Still eating the same kinds of things, but making sure that it fits within the 2200 +extra range. I'm sure this will end up being a lot more sustainable since I'm not depriving myself of what I enjoy anymore.

As far as weights go I know a lot of people here are into them but I never really cared honestly. I played a lot of soccer and sports when I was younger so I wasn't ripped but I was fit. I just want to get back to that if I can. Maybe I'll look into buying some cheap weights or something. I don't have time for a gym membership anymore.
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Everybody has different goals and different starting points. If all your goal is, is to 'not be fat', then eating how you are plus random cardio and whatnot is probably fine.

However, if you are already not very muscular to being with, you're going to look fairly meek, potentially even scrawny if you actually lost decent weight but did not ever lift weights consistently. If this doesn't bother you, then that's fine. When you body goes catabolic (burn mode) it chews up fat, but also some muscle, too. This ratio is highly relative to how much lifting you do while in the catabolic state. Honestly, I can't quote you studies or numbers (I'm not expert, so..) but I'd probably guess if all you ever did was eat in a deficit and did tons of cardio, you could potentially have like a 70/30 or even 60/40 split between fat loss and muscle loss.

You may want to research this to see what the actual ratio's may be.
 
z1ggy said:
Everybody has different goals and different starting points. If all your goal is, is to 'not be fat', then eating how you are plus random cardio and whatnot is probably fine.

However, if you are already not very muscular to being with, you're going to look fairly meek, potentially even scrawny if you actually lost decent weight but did not ever lift weights consistently. If this doesn't bother you, then that's fine. When you body goes catabolic (burn mode) it chews up fat, but also some muscle, too. This ratio is highly relative to how much lifting you do while in the catabolic state. Honestly, I can't quote you studies or numbers (I'm not expert, so..) but I'd probably guess if all you ever did was eat in a deficit and did tons of cardio, you could potentially have like a 70/30 or even 60/40 split between fat loss and muscle loss.

You may want to research this to see what the actual ratio's may be.
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I think it's also the case that if you're trying to lose A LOT of weight (like I am, started at 308 in March of 2014, as of this morning i'm at 240), then building up the underlying muscle can help stave off the loose, floppy skin thing that happens to some people. Even that is predicated upon genetics, some people just have better skin elasticity.
 
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