So, it appears this man Texas executed was innocent

[MagickMan]

What the fuck does this have to do with the death penalty and its apparent shortcomings in the realm of non-absolute convictions?

Convenience. One side wants to kill a living person because they want "justice", regardless of the proof or evidence, and the other side wants to kill a living fetus because it would inconvenience a woman to keep carrying it for a few more months. Neither side wants to look at the larger issue here, people are lazy and selfish and choose emotions and feelings over facts.

 

[1prophet]

Come on now it's not like they invaded his house, shot him in the head in front of his family and then dumped the body in the ocean, at least he got a fair trial.:whiste:

 

[MagickMan]

Nah you'll get to leave sooner then that after I visit my user Control Panel

Go right ahead. I know what I'm saying is making you uncomfortable. Better to just close your eyes and let me debate with the people who haven't completely sold out to the system. Besides, lots of people quote my posts, I figure you'll end up having to read them anyway.

 

[MagickMan]

I want abortions to be available, but only when we figure out when the brain of the child starts firing recognizable patterns...and then only allow an abortion before that occurs.

Don't want a kid? Get the pill. Or a condom. Or both.

Abortions to safe the mothers life should always be available.

I'm for the death penalty in cases of: Murder, rapes numbering greater than say 5 (and certainly doing shit with kids), and trafficking. But there can be no circumstantial evidence involved. Meaning there must be DEFINITIVE evidence. If you cannot get definitive evidence, then they get life, with no chance of parole, and limited appeals. If the appeal suddenly finds that definitive evidence of their guilt, then their sentence can be upgraded to the death penalty.

You get it! You sir are a prime example of individual reason over party rhetoric and emotion. You're going on my list of people who don't have their heads shoved up someone else's ass. :thumbsup:

 

[Ausm]

Go right ahead. I know what I'm saying is making you uncomfortable. Better to just close your eyes and let me debate with the people who haven't completely sold out to the system. Besides, lots of people quote my posts, I figure you'll end up having to read them anyway.

LMAO You wish buddy....I see lack of ego is not a problem you have deal with

BYE.

 

[MagickMan]

LMAO You wish buddy....I see lack of ego is not a problem you have deal with

BYE.

Pot meet kettle.

Bye, bye, Dem Drone. I figure if you keep your head in the sand long enough, you'll eventually stop caring about who's f***ing you.

 

[Wreckem]

His guilt was proved to a jury of his peers and sustained by a long and detailed appeals process. He was and is guilty. Now he is dead.

Next.

Jury's in Texas have convicted a multitude of innocent people.

Have you even read the reports? nThe methods used to investigate the fire has been COMPLETELY discredited by science.

This issue was brought up before his execution. Perry didn't even bother with the case and let his execution go forward. This matter should have been cleared up before he was executed. Period. But it wasn't and that is why it is a big issue.

Perry is despicable for how he handled the situation and how he sand bagged the Texas Forensic Science Commission by putting on a Prosecutor who doesn't believe in post conviction DNA testing or seemingly any post conviction relief. The guy he made Chairman fought for 5 years against DNA testing in another case, finally a court ordered it and now that guy is a free man after spending 25 years in jail. And don't get me started on the Board of Pardon and Parole. It is so heavily stacked and biased it isn't even funny.

 

[Ausm]

Jury's in Texas have convicted a multitude of innocent people.

Have you even read the reports? nThe methods used to investigate the fire has been COMPLETELY discredited by science.

This issue was brought up before his execution. Perry didn't even bother to read it and let his execution go forward. This matter should have been cleared up before he was executed. Period. But it wasn't and that is why it is a big issue.

I was under the impression that a majority of people in Texas discredit Science in general

 

[OutHouse]

stop with the abortion talk. if you want to discuss abortion then start your own thread.

 

[a777pilot]

stop with the abortion talk. if you want to discuss abortion then start your own thread.

Abortion.

Abortion.

Abortion.


Having fun yet?

 

[Mursilis]

That type of government control over a woman's body should not exist.

Tell that to all the pro-choicers who oppose drug legalization.

 

[soulcougher73]

Um. He wasn't innocent. He was proven guilty in a court of law. Under America's legal system (the best system the planet has ever seen) he committed the crime.

This. Given our system he was found guilty, so charges were rendered based on that. That is why we have an appeals process. If new evidence arises that clear him of charges he may be set free. No system is 100% perfect. Innocent people will die now and then..you just have to accept that and do the best you can do with the evidence at the time.

 

[Mursilis]

stop with the abortion talk. if you want to discuss abortion then start your own thread.

You're a "lifer", not a "mod". You seem to have confused the two.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Because nobody can say with absolute certainty that this guy is innocent. The evidence that convicted him may be flawed, but there is also nothing conclusive to exonerate him. When that case does come along where a PROVEN innocent person gets executed, I'm sure a lot more people will be up in arms.

He was absolutely certainly innocent because he wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have done it and until that happens he is innocent. Our standard isn't absolute proof of innocence it's supposed to be the other way around for a reason.

 

[MagickMan]

stop with the abortion talk. if you want to discuss abortion then start your own thread.

Well, legal murder is legal murder, some people love one type and hate the other. Might as well lump them together and figure out why there are inconsistencies in logic.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Convenience. One side wants to kill a living person because they want "justice", regardless of the proof or evidence, and the other side wants to kill a living fetus because it would inconvenience a woman to keep carrying it for a few more months. Neither side wants to look at the larger issue here, people are lazy and selfish and choose emotions and feelings over facts.

Um, "other side".

You are already lumping and typecasting. Not only that, you are kind of short-selling the whole Abortion thing. You need to address the issue and not brush it off like a Selsen Blue ad....

The two are separate issues and should be treated as such.

 

[xBiffx]

Abortion.

Abortion.

Abortion.


Having fun yet?

Stop that! You are making me laugh!

 

[Mursilis]

Convenience. One side wants to kill a living person because they want "justice", regardless of the proof or evidence, and the other side wants to kill a living fetus because it would inconvenience a woman to keep carrying it for a few more months. Neither side wants to look at the larger issue here, people are lazy and selfish and choose emotions and feelings over facts.

Spot on. Well, I might have said, they choose self-interest over facts, and then attempt to rationalize their actions.

 

[Ninjahedge]

Tell that to all the pro-choicers who oppose drug legalization.

Not associatable.

And hard to define as well.

You can't get MJ, but you CAN get Zoloft...... :wark:

 

[Wreckem]

This. Given our system he was found guilty, so charges were rendered based on that. That is why we have an appeals process. If new evidence arises that clear him of charges he may be set free. No system is 100% perfect. Innocent people will die now and then..you just have to accept that and do the best you can do with the evidence at the time.

Thats the problem. No one gave a serious look at the new, and scientifically sound evidence. The report came two weeks before his execution. The board of pardons and paroles, made up of primarily former prosecutors and Rick Perry summarily dismissed it.

If Willingham had a trial today, based on the evidence they had, he would be acquitted 10 out of 10 times.

This case should have gone through the system like post DNA cases go through. Before DNA bloodtype was used. Many a people have been set free based on post conviction DNA testing. This shouldn't have been any different. Today's fire science discredits ALL of the arson evidence they had at the original trial.

 

[Mursilis]

This. Given our system he was found guilty, so charges were rendered based on that. That is why we have an appeals process. If new evidence arises that clear him of charges he may be set free. No system is 100% perfect. Innocent people will die now and then..you just have to accept that and do the best you can do with the evidence at the time.

Uh, says who? I have a vote and I DON'T have to accept either capital punishment or the innocent dying.

 

[MagickMan]

He was absolutely certainly innocent because he wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have done it and until that happens he is innocent. Our standard isn't absolute proof of innocence it's supposed to be the other way around for a reason.

That's actually not right. He was proven guilty, according to that court's standard. However, the punishment was flawed. The guy should have never been on death row without irrefutable proof, or at least his sentence should have been commuted until such proof was found. The problem, of course, is Texas law and their requirements for establishing guilt and the way that such sentences are carried out.

 

[sandorski]

One Innocent executed, is one too many.

 

[zinfamous]

Um. He wasn't innocent. He was proven guilty in a court of law. Under America's legal system (the best system the planet has ever seen) he committed the crime.

Except it was proven quite thoroughly that he was wrongfully convicted.

This is a very popular story. His innocence is not in doubt.

In your little world, any instance of DNA evidence proving the innocence of hundreds of death row inmates should be thrown out as "the infallible and amazing US court of law" has already shown them to be guilty and is always correct.

idiot.

 

[zinfamous]

One Innocent executed, is one too many.

This. I have yet to hear a single pro-death penalty person not make this distinction.

....except maybe for Patranus "kill them all because we can" nutjob.


oh, and W. He sure killed the shit out of a lot of people when he was guv'ner.