So, it appears this man Texas executed was innocent

[MagickMan]

Considering that a majority of the citizenry in the country claim a religion, it's not an unfounded assertion.

Clinic bombers and doctor murderers are much worse than those who commit the act they decry so vehemently. To the extent they give in to the impulse to violence they are no better than Al-Qaida. Same means, different political end.

Exactly. However, it still doesn't change the fact that abortion is murder.

 

[xBiffx]

/wave

Hello! Agnostic here, how ya doin'? I'm Pro-life and Anti-death penalty. Both are equally grotesque.

That sound you just heard was the liberal heads exploding. D:

I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. Gotta love stereotypes right?

 

[a777pilot]

Um yeea...about that....we tend to like to know that people are guilty when executing them..not proving it afterward...

His guilt was proved to a jury of his peers and sustained by a long and detailed appeals process. He was and is guilty. Now he is dead.

Next.

 

[a777pilot]

That sound you just heard was the liberal heads exploding. D:

I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. Gotta love stereotypes right?

I am pro life for the innocent and pro death for the guilty.

 

[Ausm]

/wave

Hello! Agnostic here, how ya doin'? I'm Pro-life and Anti-death penalty. Both are equally grotesque.

I mean face to face

 

[Ausm]

That sound you just heard was the liberal heads exploding. D:

I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. Gotta love stereotypes right?

Like all Liburals tax/spend and are weak on National security?

 

[MagickMan]

That sound you just heard was the liberal heads exploding. D:

I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. Gotta love stereotypes right?

True that. I'm far-left on some issues and far-right on others, there's no party that fits my beliefs. This is because I'm an individual, and not some party-following monkey who regurgitates whatever the political leaders want. I can't wait until some of these people have to think for themselves one day, instead just tuning in to the usual talking heads for guidance.

 

[xBiffx]

True that. I'm far-left on some issues and far-right on others, there's no party that fits my beliefs. This is because I'm an individual, and not some party-following monkey who regurgitates whatever the political leaders want. I can't wait until some of these people have to think for themselves one day, instead just tuning in to the usual talking heads for guidance.

+1 to that. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Too bad you are wrong on abortion.

 

[MagickMan]

Like all Liburals tax/spend and are weak on National security?

Heath Shuler isn't "tax/spend" and Joe Lieberman isn't weak on national defense. I like Heath, and would vote for him, but don't usually like Joe. Do I get a cookie for thinking on my own?

 

[thraashman]

Exactly. However, it still doesn't change the fact that abortion is murder.

Well, there's no fact to change because abortion isn't murder. You can't kill something that's not alive. They don't charge you with murder for having a tumor removed or for shooting into the ground at a graveyard.

Abortion will hopefully never again be made illegal in this country. That type of government control over a woman's body should not exist. However perhaps if we started mandating comprehensive sexual education and accessible birth control, then perhaps there'd be no need for abortions soon.

 

[MagickMan]

+1 to that. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Too bad you are wrong on abortion.

Oh well. Not everyone thinks alike, but at least some people are able to form their own opinions. I was pro-choice for a long time, until I volunteered for a day at a family planning clinic. My views changed after that.

 

[Ausm]

Heath Shuler isn't "tax/spend" and Joe Lieberman isn't weak on national defense. I like Heath, and would vote for him, but don't usually like Joe. Do I get a cookie for thinking on my own?

Would that make you go away??

 

[WHAMPOM]

It's good to review this case - covered in a Frontline documentary available to watch for free at the following link:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ecute-an-innocent-man-answers-remain-elusive/

Forget the legal protections in place for defendants, the appeals process, the Governor's (Rick Perry and his commission's) power to commute, none of it worked.

What we had here was a failure of poor science presented as credible, and a failure for the justice system to correct the error; a conviction based on the false persuasion of 12 jurors of a '20 point list of evidence proving Arson', appeals to their biases by presenting rock music posters as 'Satanic worship', their inability to understand that one lie about his efforts in the fire did not prove the larger lie that he set the fire.

My prediction: everyone agrees that 'executing an innocent man is a horrible injustice' - but when actually presented with the evidence of it, supporters largely yawn.

'I'm not going to watch that video, it's too much hassle' contradicts the 'I strongly oppose any errors that can result in wrongful execution' claim.

Another bad note is that the officials who were responsible for the wrongful conviction - based on mistake, not intent - have never accepted their error.

I oppose capital punishment altogether; most do not. But this thread can at least be an example depriving the supporters of the false comfort of no wrongful executions.

One postscript after the documentary - when the commission formed after this situation to review capital sentences was finding this person had been wrongfully convicted, Rick Perry fired members and IIRC the commission decided or war ordered specifically not to investigate this case after all. That would have been messy for a presidential campaign.

In the Rights' belief system there is no room for admitting a wrong.

 

[MagickMan]

Well, there's no fact to change because abortion isn't murder. You can't kill something that's not alive. They don't charge you with murder for having a tumor removed or for shooting into the ground at a graveyard.

Abortion will hopefully never again be made illegal in this country. That type of government control over a woman's body should not exist. However perhaps if we started mandating comprehensive sexual education and accessible birth control, then perhaps there'd be no need for abortions soon.

A fetus moves on it's own, it's heart beats, and it thinks on it's own (unlike those who blindly follow political parties). Hell, I figure they're actually smarter than mainstream Dems and Repugs.

Now, if you want to look at science, we could narrow down when brain activity in a fetus starts and then craft legislation that then protects that life. I'd be all for that. However, those who are so emotional over a "woman's right" don't want to know those things, they want what they want, regardless of the truth. It's the same with capital punishment, those people want revenge and want to punish a convicted killer, even if the evidence that convicted him is 100% circumstantial.

See, if we actually had laws that made sense:

1. You can terminate a fetus before there is brain function.
2. You can execute a convicted killer if the evidence isn't completely circumstantial and there is irrefutable proof that the person is guilty.

Hell, I'd be on board with both. We can't seem to do that though, so I sit on the far ends admitting the truth, that both practices are barbaric and reprehensible.

 

[MagickMan]

Would that make you go away??

I'll leave when the party-line ass sniffers leave, how's that?

 

[a777pilot]

I'll leave when the party-line ass sniffers leave, how's that?

There is no way you can get rid of the liberal Democrats.

 

[OutHouse]

Ive followed this story since it first hit the news sites and have read about it extensively. I firmly believe that this man did NOT do this.

the whole investigation was fucked up by fire investigators that had very little training in fire forensics and using unproven theory's. this case should never have seen a court room.

 

[OutHouse]

nevermind.

 

[cubby1223]

I'd be more interested in this story if it were about the death penalty, but instead, there is that definite "hint" that this is a political move against Perry.


We still have thousands of people hell-bent on convincing us 9/11 was an inside government job, and they have their group of experts who question the evidence.

So you have someone who doubts the evidence in this case in Texas, along with the opportunity to bash a popular GOP candidate...

And VOILA! You have your news story for the week.


While it is important to review court cases, especially Death Penalty cases - the partisan undertones does the story a whole heap of disservice.

 

[Ninjahedge]

How many doctors are willing to kill a patient (of any age) that has a heart beat and brain function?

Splitting hairs. Brain activity /= brain function.

What is so different from an embryo, and someone connected to a life support machine. We do not walk into a hospital and say "I do not want my life bothered with this person connected to a machine, so lets pull the pull".

Again, an embryo at 2 weeks is different than one at 32 weeks. Lumping them all together is not the proper way to address it.

Most will agree Late Term abortions should only be allowed in special cases, such as threat of death or handicap to the mother and/or child.

The line gets fuzzy in the second trimester, with some calling out birth defects like Spinal Bifida or in cases such as rape.

In the first trimester, many who object usually site "soul" and other ephemeral terms as reasons for objection. Some even call it "birth control" which some religions reject outright (don't schtup if you don't produce).


But what it all comes down to is simple.

What the fuck does this have to do with the death penalty and its apparent shortcomings in the realm of non-absolute convictions?

 

[Ninjahedge]

Well, let's try a different approach for this definition then.

No. Parsing your words is just another way of restating the same.

I don't think biology or religion are necessary to find out what's permissible and what's not, nor do I think the soul has anything to do with it.

Starting point: Do you think it's okay to abort a child 10 seconds before it's born?

Rhetorical question, and also silly because it is already, literally, being "aborted" by the host.

On second thought, as much as I want to debate this, it'll be yet another example of abortion threadjacking an OP of a different topic. If you want to continue, just post your response in a PM to me.

Ding! You win a prize.... Heh, and I just got the PM request.....

 

[Ninjahedge]

Because nobody can say with absolute certainty that this guy is innocent. The evidence that convicted him may be flawed, but there is also nothing conclusive to exonerate him. When that case does come along where a PROVEN innocent person gets executed, I'm sure a lot more people will be up in arms.

Here's the thing:

You can't prove it, 100%, the person lives.

You can't prove it, "BaRD", the person goes free.

The standards we have for death here are ironically not in the certainty of conviction, but in the crime itself.

The crime should only be used to set up eligibility for sentences. After that.... proof.


Beyond a Reasonable Doubt is just not (or should not be) enough to kill someone on (in a court of law).

 

[Ausm]

I'll leave when the party-line ass sniffers leave, how's that?

Nah you'll get to leave sooner then that after I visit my user Control Panel

 

[RampantAndroid]

LMAO Ok there may be some atheists out there who are pro-life but few and far between but to say the majority of pro-lifers are not holy rollers is a fucking joke.

I want abortions to be available, but only when we figure out when the brain of the child starts firing recognizable patterns...and then only allow an abortion before that occurs.

Don't want a kid? Get the pill. Or a condom. Or both.

Abortions to safe the mothers life should always be available.

I'm for the death penalty in cases of: Murder, rapes numbering greater than say 5 (and certainly doing shit with kids), and trafficking. But there can be no circumstantial evidence involved. Meaning there must be DEFINITIVE evidence. If you cannot get definitive evidence, then they get life, with no chance of parole, and limited appeals. If the appeal suddenly finds that definitive evidence of their guilt, then their sentence can be upgraded to the death penalty.

 

[Ninjahedge]

T-T-T-TRIPLE PLAY!!!!

:eep: