so, is it too early to pass sentence on dubya Bush yet?

[trenchfoot]

i for one am getting the most confusing picture of him. what with the senate takeover by the dems and the EU ready to do him bodily harm and the treehuggers secretly burning him in effigy and the petro/energy industries prodding him on to newer and more provocative deeds, and dubya running around in circles trying to put out all of these tumbleweed fires at the same time.....?

 

[Soybomb]

^
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What was that?

 

[snakesnfrogs]

 

[Sluggo]

Pass a sentence on him? Was he convicted of something?

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup, I would of thought the board would be lit up with Bush success stories and conservatives beating their breast in pride, but so far it's a shambles. He's dropped like a stone in the polls, doesn't watch them of course, all his waffeling comes from an inner compass, and then he appoints an old time crook, elloit abrams to the national security council. Naturally I can't list too much that's gone wrong cause I can't really keep an eye on him. Every time I see him I cringe.

 

[Tominator]

We had eight years of scandal in which nothing was done of note.

The polls show him with a higher approval rating than Clinton ever had. and the media shoved Clinton's supposed popularity down our throats daily.

Some claim he is waffleing, but if you look, he is just responding to the wants of the public. As circumstances change, so does his policies. That's not the result of a poll btw.

The reason Republicans and Conservatives are not crowing of his success is that he is being a leader and not a liar...notice the difference in spelling....Bush is just doing what is expected of him by those that elected him.

 

[BlockSender]

<< &quot;Some 52 percent of respondents now approve of the way Bush is handling his
job as president. That figure -- his lowest to date -- represents a three-point
drop since mid-June, and is statistically identical to other polls released last
week. But it is important to note that Bush has not been the victim of a sudden
drop in his approval, but instead a slow, steady slide spread out over several
months.&quot; >>



Heh



<< &quot;Bush approval rating Now 52% June 55% May 56% April 62% March 63% February 57%&quot; >>


http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/07/02/bush.poll/index.html

And again



<< &quot;NEW YORK (CNN) -- As Bill Clinton prepares to move out of the White House, he'll take with him the highest recorded job approval rating of any president in history -- despite the scandals and turmoil of his administration.&quot; >>


http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/10/video.clinton/index.html

Sir! I know not where you get your information but I consider cnn.com to be a tad more reliable than baseless claims given by another Bush supporter. It's those kind of figures that gave us this lousy tax cut that will kill any hope of a surplus for Medicare etc. etc. I will not push that issue further than it needs to go, however, your response to tweaker2 and moonbeams comments were completely predictable.

I am angry if your fellow voters elected this official expecting him to behave this way. I will give you this much, he may have tried his best, but his best ain't good enough in my book.

That's my 3cents for the day.

I will apologize if I personally offend anyone out there with comments like this but I believe the severity expresses my great disproval of TWTA. What would make me happy is if he came up with more well-thought-out plans for the benefit of the country, rather than giving the public &quot;what they want.&quot; The public at-large is stupid. (No offence public) but politicians are well versed in how to run the government; the public is not. We all want something. Some of us want a tax cut, some of us want more spending, some of us want a competent president, some of us don't want to get into wars with other countries over our policies. You can't cater to EVERYONES needs, but for the love of the country, choose what is best for most, not what is best for your sagging approval rating.
AHG

I think I better stop now. *low brow* :disgust:

*hurmph* So angry...

 

[Helpless]

...sounds like you are from Florida.

 

[BlockSender]

haha! That's brilliant! :-D But I'm not from Florida. And now I'm actually sad I wrote what I did -- but I refuse to edit it. Even the minor grammatical errors... I need to go to bed now...
I uh... Actually I'm sorry I insulted a diamond member haha. But there is nothing like arguing politics at 5am that gets me so riled up.
I shouldn't have written it. But oh well, obviously this topic is pretty important to me eh?

I don't mean to make an enemy out of anyone so if you find what I said to be as full of hotair as DC itself, flame me! I strive to find the truth so crush my ego, stop on my opinions, and tell me I'm wrong. Just make sure I can find the facts out there somewhere (other than theonion)

Thanks, Helpless, for taking the oxygen outta my flame

 

[yasha]

I for one am glad to see Clinton's no good @ss out of office!
I think Bush is doing a fine job so far.

 

[Tominator]

Yea, right. It is known far and wide as the Clinton News Network or CNN.

It was no secret that the Clinton Administration was totally about polls. It is obvious that Bush does not watch them and they never were anything but another fabrication by the media to falsely claim popularity. There are dozens of polls taken by mose credible sources than CNN could ever hope to be.

...AND it is the Public that elected Bush. It is they he answers to. I also belive most are idiots, but to blanket all policy to 'Do what's good for the Country,' and ignore popular opinion makes you start sounding like another kind of idiot.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<<
The polls show him with a higher approval rating than Clinton ever had. and the media shoved Clinton's supposed popularity down our throats daily. >>



Actually his current approval rating, just above 50%, is the lowest presidential approval rating in five years (including the Lewinsky-era Clinton), and his current rating is the lowest of any president since Eisenhower at this point in his presidency (with the notable exception of Clinton, whose ratings of course ultimately stabilized and reached impressive heights, which certainly may happen to GWB as well). See Gallup, as well as the plot of Clinton's ratings.

 

[Urinal Mint]

BlockSender:

Do you realize that we'd have all kinds of cash for Medicare and the like if we'd start cutting people off of welfare? I see plenty of deadbeats every day on my drive to work that are on welfare, and they're just sitting on their porches smoking. No job, and no intentions of getting one.

&quot;Please, don't take away my check Mr. Gov'ment, 'cuz I might have to work if you do.&quot;

There is a lot of fat that can be trimmed from a federal budget that can pay for other meaningful things. Welfare is just the tip of the iceberg.

At any rate, however, no president in our era had much of an approval rating, or the charisma to warrant it... the populace is too wide-ranging in beliefs to allow one man's vision to be theirs. We have 100 Senators and 435 (thanks helpless) Congressman for a reason... and that's so our President doesn't ruin the whole deal for everybody. Get that through your skull.

Democracy has survived for a reason.

 

[Helpless]

>We have 100 Senators and 360-something Congressman for a reason.<


435, sir


[edit] ...one thing I forget, though, is whether this counts the delegates from D.C.? I think so, but since they don't really have a vote, I think they shouldn;t be counted

 

[Urinal Mint]

Heh, thanks for the correct number

I'm an engineer for a reason!

 

[etech]

tweaker2
Let's take a closer look at what you have to say.
what with the senate takeover by the dems
One very liberal Republican from a liberal state decided to gain attention and power by selling himself to the democrats because the Senate was split 50/50. Personally, I think in these cases they should be made to resign and another election held. The people of his state voted in him as Republican and he should have the obligation to remain as such until the next election.

the EU ready to do him bodily harm
Of course the EU is upset at Pres. Bush, he didn't fall for the trap of the Kyoto treaty. Europe for a number of reasons could have met the CO2 goals far easier then the U.S.. It would have caused great harm to the US economy to achieve the reductions. It was a trap based on unproven science that would have never been ratified by the Senate in any case. It was better for Pres. Bush to announch the problems with it, note that it was doomed to failure and move on to a workable realistic plan.

the petro/energy industries prodding him on to newer and more provocative deeds
I know not of what you speak of here. Be specific. Innuendo is great when you have no proof or facts.

dubya running around in circles trying to put out all of these tumbleweed fires at the same time.....?
I know not of what you speak of here. Be specific. Innuendo is great when you have no proof or facts.

--------------
Polls by Ted Turner's CNN? Find some others that show the same thing and then we will talk about them.

 

[Tominator]

I prefer Reuters/Zogby and yes, at this point his ratings are lower. Now look at why as explained on the site. Talk about an uninformed public....



<< What is your overall opinion of George Bush&quot; >>




6/26 5/22 4/26 3/28 2/27 1/19/01
Favorable 60 62 63 60 67 54
Unfavorable 37 33 35 30 28 42
Not Sure 4 2 1 8 4 4


When he took over..

California Energy Crisis

Record gas prices

Threat of war in Middle East

Escalation of violence in northern Ireland

Stock Market 'crash'

General slowdown in the economy

...and this is just a few items he has been dealing with all courtesy of the last administration.

That he maintains even a 50% rating is amazing....watch it go higher when the tax rebate checks start to hit...

 

[BlockSender]

Urinal Mint: I agree with you 100% about &quot;trimming the fat&quot; off pork barrel funds and useless programs.
I don't think welfare is the greatest thing either, especially those who abuse it, but it does serve a purpose. Perhaps it needs to be redefined to not give as many benefits and incentives to stick to it rather than getting a job. If you were in the same position, you too may not choose to work a minimum wage job if you can get (almost) the same amount of money per year from welfare. Sure, these practices need stopped.
Medicare on the otherhand is something important for everyone and it is a bit more difficult to abuse this system. The abuse comes from some doctors and HMO's and insurance agencies(I don't mean to classify all doctors in the same category either!).
As far as getting the idea of congress (republican controlled) checking a republican president on every issue is a bit skewed. Just as it would be in the opposite situation with a Dem. controlled Congress and Dem. Pres. Yes, the systems of checks and balances is fresh in my mind, but a president has a bit more PULL than say, your average congressperson (or even your average citizen). It would be unfair to say his opinions are equal to that of everyone else. But I was delighted to see that you feel this way &quot;...so that our President doesn't ruin the whole deal for everybody&quot; *snicker*
I'll agree with you (Tominator and Urinal Mint) that approval poles don't mean everything. But they do mean something.

 

[Urinal Mint]

<< But I was delighted to see that you feel this way &quot;...so that our President doesn't ruin the whole deal for everybody&quot; *snicker* >>


I've felt that way about every President I've seen in my time, since Carter. Our forefathers designed our democracy because they knew that, in the future, dumbasses would be elected to office. They had dumbass politicians back then just like we do now... just without the powdered wigs.

 

[Helpless]

...a little OT (or is it?), but I no longer look at the approval ratings anymore. My undergrad. thesis was on the impact of the economy on presidential approval ratings. There was a time when presidents were judged, and graded, by such things as foreign policy, number of speeches made to the American public, number of trips overseas, leadership and ability to respond to crises, etc...Now, however, ever since the &quot;Gipper,&quot; it appears Americans judge, and grade, presidents by the size of their pocketbooks...the economy seemed to explain ~ 80% of the variance in approval ratings (R^2=.8 for you statistical geeks) With this in mind, given the downturn of the economy during the latter part of the Clinton administration, the trends in Bush's approval ratings seem quite the norm.


Can you dig it?

 

[woodly6]

What would the people of America do if they couldnt poke, prod, and critisize(sp) everything the president does.

I am not a George W. supportor by any means but he is doing allright. I was quite happy with Clinton and really didnt care about his outside adulterous affairs.

 

[BlockSender]

Tominator, wow. Your statement could be copied almost verbatim for when Clinton took office.



<< When he took over..

California Energy Crisis

Record gas prices

Threat of war in Middle East

Escalation of violence in northern Ireland

Stock Market 'crash'

General slowdown in the economy

...and this is just a few items he has been dealing with all courtesy of the last administration.
>>



California energy 'crisis' Hmm, it could have been handled better and sooner. No doubt
California brought this upon itself.
I believe we just came down from the land of &quot;high gas prices&quot; When Clinton took office. As well, why don't you just check out gas prices in the rest of the world. Especially Europe.

When has there not been threat of war in the Mid East? Although Israel/Palestine is a bad one to calm..

Northern Ireland has been waring for the last hundred years

The stock market 'crash' was a natural business cycle as well as the economic slowdown. And actually if you look at the figures, this last business cycle was the 2nd longest lasting in history (coincidence?). If you don't believe me go check it out for yourself on the commerce dept webpage.

etech RE: &quot;the EU ready to do him bodily harm&quot; comment. I was in EU in may. I talked to so many people about Bush. He has the absolute LOWEST opinion in EU. Everyone there is scared of him and his actions. And yes he is running around in circles trying to put out wildfires. If he would devote more attention to one topic rather than broadsiding an issue and jumping on with dampered momentum to the next, he might have more success.

Re the senate takeover, Yikes, can you verify it was a publicity stunt? And elections work like this, you vote your canditate based on his or her views and stances and trust that they will do what is right for the country. Perhaps his move was right for the country. I ask you though, (now with the benefit of hindsight) Would you have been as peeved if a democrat switched to republican?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< I prefer Reuters/Zogby and yes, at this point his ratings are lower. >>



Naturally you prefer them - their ratings show a better approval rating for Bush, though they have a much smaller sampling than Gallup and have been in the polling business for a fraction of the time! I have no axe to grind with our president, but approval ratings are not exactly his strongest suit, and it is foolish to push that issue given what the overall ratings show.

 

[Czar]

Hahha, that people actually think that Bush is responsible for any of these problems, or any american persident is responsible for these problems.



<< Record gas prices

Threat of war in Middle East

Escalation of violence in northern Ireland >>



The gas prices are global and no one western country can cause the rise, only the opec states can.

The Middle East and northern Ireland have absolutely nothing to do with the US.

 

[Tominator]

There was no Energy Crisis in California or anywhere else for that matter THANKS to President Bush and Desert Storm. In fact after the gulf war gas prices went to a historic low. Not a thing to do with Clinton or his policies.

Clinton bragged how he had beat the 'Business Cycle.'

The Mid-East is on he brink of war as we speak and are closer than ever....but if you choose to ignore the details...

Several Democrats changed parties...all resigned and most were elected as Republicans...

Zogby was more accurate and showed better balance during the last several years. That is why they have such prominence today.