so, is it too early to pass sentence on dubya Bush yet?

[dew042]

<< >>iraq at the time of the gulf war had the third largeest army in the world.<<


Show me your source, sir. You make this stuff up as you go along, or did you read it on the DNC's homepage? >>



my source wouldn't help would it? because you would claim it was biased. its a nice circular logic isn't it? that way you never have to concede anything, right? much easier to make fun of me instead.

i did go to college. i did get an education. i even graduated. i have been to the middle east, have you? i took a course on middle-eastern politics, have you? we read numerous books. one of which discussed in detail the iran/iraq wars and how the US funded both sides. we even had a lecture from a military official who stated that iraq's army was the third largest at the time of the conflict. but maybe he was lying right? i didn't say they had the third best army though....these are facts that stick in my head because they are shocking.

but who am i to have an opinion on anything?

 

[busmaster11]

he said oral office. hahahahahhahaha

 

[dew042]

<< So far as arrogance, I'm not sure I detect that in GW. Maybe a little bit of swagger, but I think any man needs swagger in order to be a good leader. >>



yeah.

you have to admit clinton maybe had a little too much swagger though. in comparison they are so radically different.

dew.

 

[dew042]

<< The PEOPLE set up the process by which we elect our president, that is currently the electoral system. >>



wrong again. the PPL only get to set up the representives of our government. we are not a pure democracy. the people's power is limited, yet absolute. its a fun little absurdity. these representatives of the ppl then instituted a electoral college. do you think how many hundreds of years ago that they could have possible understand the issues that we have today? and so it passed. again I submit that the people did not choose bush, but the electoral college did. granted he won. thats the way the system works. oh well.

how about a dual presidency? gore could make policy and bush could be the official ambassador at baseball games? perhaps not.

dew.

 

[Czar]

Great post dew042, the one to Helpless.

 

[glenn1]

<< we even had a lecture from a military official who stated that iraq's army was the third largest at the time of the conflict. >>



I think you might have mis-remembered the lecture slightly. I think Iraq had the fifth largest military (in terms of sheer number of personnel under arms) at the time of the conflict rather than the third. I believe the order by size went something like this:

1st: China
2nd: Russia/USSR
3rd: USA
4th: India (?)
5th: Iraq

If i got this point wrong, i apologize. Picky and a technicality, but i think 5th is the correct figure, and certainly not enough of a mistatement that it would destroy your point or credibility even if it was the case (fifth rather than third).

 

[dew042]

<<

<< we even had a lecture from a military official who stated that iraq's army was the third largest at the time of the conflict. >>



I think you might have mis-remembered the lecture slightly. I think Iraq had the fifth largest military (in terms of sheer number of personnel under arms) at the time of the conflict rather than the third. I believe the order by size went something like this:

1st: China
2nd: Russia/USSR
3rd: USA
4th: India (?)
5th: Iraq

If i got this point wrong, i apologize. Picky and a technicality, but i think 5th is the correct figure, and certainly not enough of a mistatement that it would destroy your point or credibility even if it was the case (fifth rather than third). >>



perhaps you are right. it does sound logical. maybe my source was puffing up his ego.

regardless it was big for a country that is not that big. that's my point. which exact number it is isn't as important.

dew.

 

[Urinal Mint]

Realize you also need a big military if you're going to play the tough guy in the Middle East and try to move your influence, by force, into neighboring nations.

 

[glenn1]

<< how about a dual presidency? gore could make policy and bush could be the official ambassador at baseball games? perhaps not. >>



Ack. How about a dual presidency where Bush makes policy, and Gore could be the official ambassador to Chad? (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[Helpless]

dew042 wrote: ?my source wouldn't help would it? because you would claim it was biased. its a nice circular logic isn't it? that way you never have to concede anything, right? much easier to make fun of me instead?


Ugh, sir, military troop strength and numbers of troops in standing armies is a fact, not an opinion?if your source claims Iraq to have the 3rd largest army, then check your source, as it is clearly wrong.


?i did go to college. i did get an education. i even graduated. i have been to the middle east, have you??


As I stated in many threads (I think even in this one, but not going to humor you and check), I served in the Gulf War, spent over a year there during it, been back 4 times since?


?i took a course on middle-eastern politics, have you??


After my undergraduate degree(s) in Economics and Public Policy, I continued my education at the Thomas Jefferson School of Public Policy @ W&amp;M to earn a M.P.P. / MBA degree, and I am currently working on my Ph.D. in Economics?area of concentration in Public Policy? Foreign Policy, then Tax/Budgeting?let?s just say I have studied the Middle East more than you could probably stomach, sir.



?we read numerous books.?

It sounds like a great school, then?congratulations!

?we even had a lecture from a military official who stated that iraq's army was the third largest at the time of the conflict.?

..probably an Air Force Supply Clerk who was stationed in Guam at the time?Is it too late to request a refund for the class, as they are obviously bringing in idiots to teach.

 

[Moonbeam]

Isn't this the real situation?:

Clinton is the greatest political genius of the age. When he was president everybody knew it on a gut level. The resultant inner confidence and security people felt translated into business and other forms of activity leading to the golden ninties.

Now that we have a chimpanzee put in office by five criminal justices on the Supreme Coup, everybody feels inwardly sick to death and things have collapsed.

 

[UpGrD]

dew042


<< don't call me a liberal because i am far from. i just get sick of conservative's thumbing there noses and claiming to know all the
answers. heck, i'd rather work for the common good than the personal benefit. you start to realize how much you miss 'the common
good' ethic when you move from minnesota to new orleans. come see our ghettos sometime, they rock. >>



I think we all agree that the common good is our goal here. But that does not mean we have to hold our nose while we watch an individual do things that we know to be wrong or inappropriate. That is
what most liberals did during Clintons term. That would not be the case with most conservatives if GW did similar.



<< but drunk driving and nose candy are MUCH more respectable. I don't rely much on morality anymore, cause it ain't going to happen... all i care is you get the job done and you aren't
arrogant about it. bush is much more arrogant than clinton. >>



Maybe I missed something but a 20 year old DWI is different than what went on during Clintons term. As for the nose candy statement, I would hope you smarter than that. There was never anything
more than rumors regarding that and GW's past. Just like it would be foolish for me to bring in Clintons &quot;rumored&quot; drug use during his term. Those are both non issues to me because the the recent political
climate that caters to such unsubstantiated rumors.
And your statement that.....

&quot;I don't rely much on morality anymore, cause it ain't going to happen... all i care is you get the
job done and you aren't arrogant about it. bush is much more arrogant than clinton.&quot;

Not expecting our president to be moral, is the problem!!!
Carter was a lousy leader, but his outstanding morals made him a respected President and a great man.
You cant say the same for a great leader with lousy morals.
Clinton cant even claim to be a leader, he was a poll driven leader.
Leadership is when you do what is not always popular because you beleive in it. Then stand judgent on those desisions.

 

[Czar]

Helpless

No personal attack here but could you please bring some facts of your own instead of bashing those that other bring. You are starting to sound like Chick.

 

[WordSmith2000]

<< >the president cannot stop me or help me when it comes to earning a living.<

Sure he can, sir...what do you do for a living and I'll throw an anology your way >>



What I do for a living at this moment? I have three jobs: Technical Writer, Computer Consultant/trainer, and Vending/Amusement machine service technician. When I need more money, I take on more work. Despite the doom and gloom that techies (most of whom never had to do real work) shout about, I turn away jobs all the time.

The president cannot make me less or more capable of finding work. The president cannot make me less or more skilled at my job. The president cannot affect my drive to succeed. I doubt you or anyone else can create a scenario where the president can keep me from pursuing happiness. I will never lay that on him, be it GWB or Clinton or anyone else.

The president can help keep my air and water clean (he chooses to drill for oil instead). The president can help people with limited budgets acquire proper health care (he chooses to side with the HMO?s instead). The president can be a leader in world affairs (he chooses to do things that make the world laugh at him).

Unlike others who post here, I accept him as my president, but I take issue with most of the things he has done since coming in to office.

So far GW is not a standout as Pres., but it is way to early to be saying the things about him that has been said in the thread. Time will tell. If he is a good president at the end of the day we are all better off, no matter our political beliefs. Give him some time to show us.

Hmm?it seems that the Republicans were slamming Clinton before he won the Democratic Primaries?and you expect the Democrats to act more mature?

 

[Helpless]

...as for Czar, just sit on your little island and talk about what America should do and the policies we should follow...since Islanders clearly aren?t leading the way in anything but snowfall, if that even.

 

[raven82]

I consider his intelligence to be very low.

 

[UpGrD]

As far as the Iraq army debate. In Aug 1990 it was the 4th largest army(the number 2 million comes to mind???). I have the 1st Infantry Div intel report stashed somewhere.

 

[Urinal Mint]

<< Isn't this the real situation?:

Clinton is the greatest political genius of the age. When he was president everybody knew it on a gut level. The resultant inner confidence and security people felt translated into business and other forms of activity leading to the golden ninties.

Now that we have a chimpanzee put in office by five criminal justices on the Supreme Coup, everybody feels inwardly sick to death and things have collapsed. >>


The only thing that I'm sick to my stomach about is the fact that people don't have pride in our country anymore based on one man. Things are churning along just as smoothly as they were when Clinton was in office... there are hiccups all the time, but nothing major.

Whether or not you think GW is a &quot;chimpanzee,&quot; you should still quit being apathetic about the status of our country. One man shouldn't lead to your lack of confidence in an entire nation.

I'm still trying to figure out what has collapsed... can you elaborate?

 

[Czar]

<< ...as for Czar, just sit on your little island and talk about what America should do and the policies we should follow...since Islanders clearly aren?t leading the way in anything but snowfall, if that even. >>


Its Icelanders But its true, we like to ramble about bush, you should see some of the forums we have here, everyone has the impression of bush that he is an idiot. I actually think he is a very very good man, just not very good president, he still has a few years to proove himself. Your politics affect the world so I have every right to ramble all I want.

 

[busmaster11]

<< let?s just say I have studied the Middle East more than you could probably stomach, sir >>



Helpless, atleast base your false humility on something you know about the other individual.

Look. No one should expect our prez to be perfect. Each and every one of us can dig up tons of dirt on the one we dislike more (Bush or Clinton) so no one ever wins this one. So you throw morality out the window. Whats left? the agenda. And each and every one of Bush's has been for the good of the few. I realize I'm oversymplifying it immensely, but it seems to always be US over world, private over public when few can afford private, and most notably, rich over poor.

 

[glenn1]

<< Clinton is the greatest political genius of the age. >>



If Clinton rates being called the political genius of the age, then by measuring on the same scale, Gore wouldn't even be on the yardstick.

 

[classy]

Bush= 4 and no more

 

[FettsBabe]

You can't pass sentence on to a President until they have completed their term, and sometimes its hard to pass sentence then because it is hard to see the results of policies he created until a few years have passed.

Just look at Clinton, it takes years of practice to F&amp;*( up as much as he did!

 

[jmcoreymv]

<< That's fine... you probably had your opportunity to choose who best represented your views, and that guy lost. That's called a Democracy. Regardless, whoever was chosen, while not necessarily being your favorite, represents you and the rest of the people in this nation, and it's your job to let it be known to that person what he can do to best represent you and people like you. Chosen of the people, by the people, for the people. >>



Actually last time I checked we had a republic not a democracy, but who knows.

 

[Tominator]

WordSmith2000

Thanks for the kind words.....If you look at CNN polls, Clinton was ahead...look at Zogby and he wasn't. I can admit I'm wrong without calling you any names. You admit you are a Liberal, so I couldn't top that if I tried.

It is obvious that some here just refuse to look at history and what actually happened in the last 20 years. I've ran the history of our economy into the ground I've posted so much about it and so have others. Liberals will rewrite history until it feels right. That will never change.

Why we've done so good since 82?__--__--Here it comes, ready or not<<<<<Ronald Reagan>>>>