So I was watching Gladiator on DVD today...

SLCentral

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2003
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So today I popped in my Gladiator Special Edition DVD into my Xbox 360 (connected to a Fujitsu 63" plasma via Component), dimmed the lights, and got ready to watch.

I've always been the biggest fan of high-definition. I have 500GB+ of HD movies from my cable box stored on my computer, have a 50" DLP, a 32" LCD, a 30" 2560x1600 monitor, and I'm always at my neighbors, watching their Fujitsu. I push HD to my friends and family like a politician, and I jumped on board the HD-DVD bandwagon the week after the HD-DVD player for 360 was released. I only watch HD channels on TV, and don't even bother checking the EPG for channels under 202 (where HD starts in my area).

That said, I was left impressed by the Gladiator disc. As I watched, I realized that DVD is good enough for the time being. Yeah, HD-DVD brings a new level of sharpness that wouldn't be able to be seen previously, but I was still awestruck with the level of detail that the disc provided, and didn't see how HD-DVD/Blu-Ray would be able to add to the experience of watching the movie. Let's face it, once you start watching a movie, details in PQ start to become less and less important, to the point where you don't really notice the difference between HD and DVD. It was just as pleasing to watch Gladiator on DVD then it would have been if there were an HD-DVD version out there. Yeah, I'm missing the extra sharpness, color richness, and detail, but the DVD version just looked damn good.

King Kong on HD-DVD was breathtaking, to say the least. However, my point is that the CE market just isn't ready for a new format, especially with a format war going on. Even 3 years down the line, once the war is settled, and prices have dropped to ~$200 (hopefully), I can't see the average consumer really caring to buy all new media/player for a format that brings almost nothing new to the table. Yeah, picture quality is nice, but I can't see more then 20% of households having a HDTV set 3 years from now (at least not big enough to make use of the HD resolution), and the sound quality is great; too bad there are no receivers out yet to even make use of the TrueHD format. DVD audio sounds damn good as it is, too.

I know that HD-DVD is the future. And I realize the improvements it brings to the table. So did SACD and DVD-A, though. I'm convinced that this format war will end up exactly as SACD and DVD-A did. Both are still around, and both are still for a limited market. Obviously, the technological improvements are there, but there's just not a big enough of a fan base for it ever to take off.

Well, at least that's my opinion :p.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: SLCentral
I only watch HD channels on TV, and don't even bother checking the EPG for channels under 202 (where HD starts in my area).

That's stupid. Unless there is no content on any of those channels that you would watch if it was HD.

Originally posted by: SLCentral
Let's face it, once you start watching a movie, details in PQ start to become less and less important, to the point where you don't really notice the difference between HD and DVD.

Pretty much. If lack of HD makes you enjoy a movie less, you're probably watching for the wrong reason.
 

SsupernovaE

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Dec 12, 2006
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Agreed. There really are going to have to produce some new stuff that can really take advantage of HD.
 

SLCentral

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Feb 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: SLCentral
I only watch HD channels on TV, and don't even bother checking the EPG for channels under 202 (where HD starts in my area).

That's stupid. Unless there is no content on any of those channels that you would watch if it was HD.

There's nothing I really do watch other then the shows in HD anyways. I only watch Lost and 24, as well as the occasional sitcom, and sports, so it doesn't really bother me. SD just looks like 100% ass on my 32" LCD, and looks only a little better on my DLP.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
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Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.
 

SLCentral

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
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Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.

I see, well if you can't tell the difference between SD movie and HD movie then thats great for you. I agree a great movie is a great movie, and that I could get by just fine watching a movie like Gladiator from a DVD source. I just recently watched my pirates of teh carribean DVD on my PS3 and it was all stretched out and ****** and I didn't care much. But I have also been watching a lot of BD movies(hurray netflix) and I can tell you honestly if I had a choice I would definitely watch the HD version. I think it lies mostly in the quality of each movie. If it wasnt originally filmed in HD quality then it doesnt make a difference. An example is Last Samurai, the stupid BD version doesnt look any better then the DVD version. On the other hand, I am not 100% sure, but when I watched the BD of Kingdom of Heaven I was seeing things in every frame that I am pretty sure you would never see in the DVD version. Its hit and miss right now but once HD catches on and gets to be the standard we should be able to really benefit.
 

fs5

Lifer
Jun 10, 2000
11,774
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Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.
I have a 1080p upconverting samsung. regular DVDs look pretty good but the two blu-ray movies I watched look definitely better. MI:3 is on order and it's supposedly has the best picture transfer. That's going to look EVEN better hopefully.

It's not the same night and day difference like SDTV and HDTV is but you can definitely tell.

Also remember that the movie experience is not only picture quality but audio quality too. BR/HD-DVD up the ante on that too.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
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I think HD is nice, but it doesn't have a big impact until you get a screen 100 inches plus. I'm in no hurry to upgrade.
 

SLCentral

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Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.

I see, well if you can't tell the difference between SD movie and HD movie then thats great for you. I agree a great movie is a great movie, and that I could get by just fine watching a movie like Gladiator from a DVD source. I just recently watched my pirates of teh carribean DVD on my PS3 and it was all stretched out and ****** and I didn't care much. But I have also been watching a lot of BD movies(hurray netflix) and I can tell you honestly if I had a choice I would definitely watch the HD version. I think it lies mostly in the quality of each movie. If it wasnt originally filmed in HD quality then it doesnt make a difference. An example is Last Samurai, the stupid BD version doesnt look any better then the DVD version. On the other hand, I am not 100% sure, but when I watched the BD of Kingdom of Heaven I was seeing things in every frame that I am pretty sure you would never see in the DVD version. Its hit and miss right now but once HD catches on and gets to be the standard we should be able to really benefit.

There are a couple incorrect things in this post. When you put POTC in your PS3 and watched, you said it was stretched. A widescreen DVD as the same aspect ratio as a HD/BR disk, so it sounds like you had a full-frame version, which will suck on a HDTV no matter what.
Second, all movies are "filmed in HD quality," meaning that film is actually a higher "resolution" then HD is. The transfer matters, but there is no reason for any BD disk to look the same as an HD-DVD one. Refer to this link; a review of the HD-DVD version of Last Samurai, which says it looks significantly better then DVD. What TV do you have?

Either way, I totally agree, HD brings a quality to the table that's impossible to get otherwise. I just don't think that boost of quality is worth a whole new format and discs, at least just yet.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
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Originally posted by: SLCentral
Well, at least that's my opinion :p.
I agree with your position.

I dont see tons of people replacing all their equipment and movies for a relatively minor bump in resolution.
DVD is a heck of a lot better than VHS and will still be the standard for years to come. Eventually there be an even better format (probably discless) and it will also be cheap and that will likely be the new standard.

In fact we already seem to be getting there. The concept of instantly downloading movies and saving them to your system OR just having instant access to them with a server is already being realized. Sort of like STEAM (but better) and for home entertainment.

 

SLCentral

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: fs5
Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.
I have a 1080p upconverting samsung. regular DVDs look pretty good but the two blu-ray movies I watched look definitely better. MI:3 is on order and it's supposedly has the best picture transfer. That's going to look EVEN better hopefully.

It's not the same night and day difference like SDTV and HDTV is but you can definitely tell.

Also remember that the movie experience is not only picture quality but audio quality too. BR/HD-DVD up the ante on that too.

Refer to OP regarding audio. I've seen MI3 on HD-DVD (not on DVD), and I agree, it looks 100% stunning. Once again, I just don't think it makes all that big of a deal when you go and sit to watch a movie, though, and this is coming from a HUGE HD buff. I just don't see the HD format catching on like DVD did, since it doesn't bring much new like DVD did compared to VHS. I can see it being a format like SACD/DVD-A. IMO, of course :p.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.

I see, well if you can't tell the difference between SD movie and HD movie then thats great for you. I agree a great movie is a great movie, and that I could get by just fine watching a movie like Gladiator from a DVD source. I just recently watched my pirates of teh carribean DVD on my PS3 and it was all stretched out and ****** and I didn't care much. But I have also been watching a lot of BD movies(hurray netflix) and I can tell you honestly if I had a choice I would definitely watch the HD version. I think it lies mostly in the quality of each movie. If it wasnt originally filmed in HD quality then it doesnt make a difference. An example is Last Samurai, the stupid BD version doesnt look any better then the DVD version. On the other hand, I am not 100% sure, but when I watched the BD of Kingdom of Heaven I was seeing things in every frame that I am pretty sure you would never see in the DVD version. Its hit and miss right now but once HD catches on and gets to be the standard we should be able to really benefit.

Film is far more detailed than HD resolutions
 

randomlinh

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,846
2
0
linh.wordpress.com
Originally posted by: randay
Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Nope :p. Only over VGA. Even if it was, upconvert does not equal HD.

I see, well if you can't tell the difference between SD movie and HD movie then thats great for you. I agree a great movie is a great movie, and that I could get by just fine watching a movie like Gladiator from a DVD source. I just recently watched my pirates of teh carribean DVD on my PS3 and it was all stretched out and ****** and I didn't care much. But I have also been watching a lot of BD movies(hurray netflix) and I can tell you honestly if I had a choice I would definitely watch the HD version. I think it lies mostly in the quality of each movie. If it wasnt originally filmed in HD quality then it doesnt make a difference. An example is Last Samurai, the stupid BD version doesnt look any better then the DVD version. On the other hand, I am not 100% sure, but when I watched the BD of Kingdom of Heaven I was seeing things in every frame that I am pretty sure you would never see in the DVD version. Its hit and miss right now but once HD catches on and gets to be the standard we should be able to really benefit.

If you have a choice between SD and HD, of course you're going to pick HD. But factor in the cost of HD today, for the average joe... it's just not worth it. More than likely both HD-DVD and Blu-ray will keep on going w/ dual format players. And eventually will replace dvd, but it might be a while. DVD had a much larger incentive over VHS.

and your settings must have been off for POTC.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
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Yeah I am definitely not using the right terms.

Originally posted by: SLCentral
There are a couple incorrect things in this post. When you put POTC in your PS3 and watched, you said it was stretched. A widescreen DVD as the same aspect ratio as a HD/BR disk, so it sounds like you had a full-frame version, which will suck on a HDTV no matter what.

I think it is the widescreen version. What I mean was how you can see the pixels and the images are not sharp as they would be if you watched on a SD CRT TV. My previous TV was a 20" sony wega. When I made the switch to a 26" sony bravia, I definitely noticed how crappy SD looked on it compared to the old TV. Was a real downer and I totally wasnt expecting it.

Second, all movies are "filmed in HD quality," meaning that film is actually a higher "resolution" then HD is. The transfer matters, but there is no reason for any BD disk to look the same as an HD-DVD one. Refer to this link; a review of the HD-DVD version of Last Samurai, which says it looks significantly better then DVD. What TV do you have?

I see, I did not know that. What do they mean when they say transfer exactly? I (obviously)don't know how to explain it, but last samurai on BD did not look any better then a DVD quality movie. Its possible that it looks better when compared to itself on DVD, I could have sworn it just looked like an upscaled DVD copy. I have a 26" sony bravia.

Either way, I totally agree, HD brings a quality to the table that's impossible to get otherwise. I just don't think that boost of quality is worth a whole new format and discs, at least just yet.

Yep it is very early to be adopting either of the formats, but the PS3 won me over to BDs side, also the potential for data storage. :p
 

fire400

Diamond Member
Nov 21, 2005
5,204
21
81
umm... I didn't really read anything on bluray...?

maybe I'm just stupid and missed the text?

but a theater in Rogers, Minnesota, claims to have a 3 storie tall monster-screen? so that will probably be the closest thing to bluray I will ever come close to!

good luck op with convincing me to get HD with my budget. lol
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Err, upscaling doesn't change the source, it only changes the output resolution. You can't just reencode a 192kbps mp3 to a 320kbps mp3 and expect the quality to be better.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: randay
Doesnt the 360 upscale DVDs? If so your entire OP is faulty and you were watching it in HD format anyway.

Err, upscaling doesn't change the source, it only changes the output resolution. You can't just reencode a 192kbps mp3 to a 320kbps mp3 and expect the quality to be better.

i am aware of that. :)
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
Originally posted by: randay
I see, I did not know that. What do they mean when they say transfer exactly? I (obviously)don't know how to explain it, but last samurai on BD did not look any better then a DVD quality movie. Its possible that it looks better when compared to itself on DVD, I could have sworn it just looked like an upscaled DVD copy. I have a 26" sony bravia.

Transfer = convert from film to digital.

They could very well have just taken the DVD transfer and converted it to a higher resolution. That would be stupid and I don't know why they'd do it, other than that it's easier and cheaper to do.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
The quality of the transfer makes a big difference as well. Gladiator had a gorgeous transfer to DVD. Meanwhile, Superman Returns transfer has supposedly been lackluster on all three formats (4 counting the Xbox Live Marketplace version).
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: randay
I see, I did not know that. What do they mean when they say transfer exactly? I (obviously)don't know how to explain it, but last samurai on BD did not look any better then a DVD quality movie. Its possible that it looks better when compared to itself on DVD, I could have sworn it just looked like an upscaled DVD copy. I have a 26" sony bravia.

Transfer = convert from film to digital.

They could very well have just taken the DVD transfer and converted it to a higher resolution. That would be stupid and I don't know why they'd do it, other than that it's easier and cheaper to do.

I think Last Samurai was transfered using MPEG-2. There have been complaints about the quality of Blu-Ray movies using MPEG-2.
 

lokiju

Lifer
May 29, 2003
18,526
5
0
I actually agree, I watch HDTV through my cable all the time and then I'll watch DVD's all the time also. I've even watched partial parts of a movie that came on HBO HD but had to go so I just put in the DVD I had of it when I got back and finished it up and realized that I really couldn't even tell much (if any) of a difference whatsoever.
 

randay

Lifer
May 30, 2006
11,018
216
106
Originally posted by: Queasy
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: randay
I see, I did not know that. What do they mean when they say transfer exactly? I (obviously)don't know how to explain it, but last samurai on BD did not look any better then a DVD quality movie. Its possible that it looks better when compared to itself on DVD, I could have sworn it just looked like an upscaled DVD copy. I have a 26" sony bravia.

Transfer = convert from film to digital.

They could very well have just taken the DVD transfer and converted it to a higher resolution. That would be stupid and I don't know why they'd do it, other than that it's easier and cheaper to do.

I think Last Samurai was transfered using MPEG-2. There have been complaints about the quality of Blu-Ray movies using MPEG-2.

dude, dont ever get house of flying daggers for bd, trust me on this one. I almost thought my TV or PS3 broke or something. thank god it was a gift. theres more grain then a bowl of.... grains.