so i was reading the bible...

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Doboji

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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Wasn't Leviticus the rules the Kingdom of Israel was supposed to follow upon the establishment of the state?... and don't they only apply when the Temple is intact. From what I understand the overwhelming majority of those rules do not currently apply.

-Max
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
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Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
There are infinite number of possible deities and satisfying all of them at once is impossible,
no, not at all a flaw, as long as you follow after one your taking a chance, better than no chance at all.

The limit of 1/n as n approaches infinity is zero.

The second problem is which letters of Paul do you accept as authoratitive.
that?s not a problem at all, if you don?t accept the inerrancy of the bible then your simply not part of this conversation because what you think about the bible is completely irrelevant to a religious discussion.

Which Bible?

As I pointed out in my prior messages, there are different Biblical canons accepted by different branches of Christianity. Do you consider 3rd Corinthians canonical? Why not? It's in the Bible of the Ethiopian Church. If you are an Ethiopian Christian who accepts 3rd Corinthians, I can ask you about books included in the Catholic Bible or Orthodox Bible that don't exist in the Ethiopian Bible.
 

cquark

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2004
1,741
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Originally posted by: Doboji
Wasn't Leviticus the rules the Kingdom of Israel was supposed to follow upon the establishment of the state?... and don't they only apply when the Temple is intact. From what I understand the overwhelming majority of those rules do not currently apply.

-Max

You're right that some of the rules cannot be applied without the Temple, such as the ones about animal sacrifices, which is why Reform Jews resist the demands of Orthodox Jews in Israel to rebuild the Temple. However, that still leaves over 400 commandments which apply, whether or not the Temple stands, so no, you can't ignore the majority of the mitvoh.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
hey hey, don't just take one part of the bible literally and not the rest. god is unfailiable, you cannot pick and choose.

The Gospel According To Luke

-- 12:51-2 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."

-- 14:26 "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

-- 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."


The Gospel According To Matthew

-- 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."

-- 10:35-6 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

-- 15:4 Jesus reiterates the commandment to kill children for cursing their parents: "For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say,... [snip] ... Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." (Jesus, reinforcing God's commandment from Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, and particularly Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which detail the requirement that parents bring stubborn boys to the city gates to be executed by stoning. Here, Jesus criticizes the humanitarian efforts of the Pharisees, who struggled for centuries to find ways to soften the impact of this brutal commandment, and to make it virtually unenforceable.)


The Gospel According To John

-- 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (This passage, a quote from Jesus, was used for centuries to justify burning our predecessors at the stake for refusing to believe.)


Genesis

-- 12:11-20 Abram (Abraham) deceives Pharaoh, telling him Sarai (Sarah) is not his wife but his sister, and Pharaoh lies with Sarai. The LORD sends a plague of flies, and then Pharaoh rebukes Abram.

-- 17:9-14 Brutal rite of circumcision mandated

-- 19:1-8 Righteous man tells horny neighbors to rape his virgin daughters instead of taking liberties with his male guests (who are angels) (see also Judges 19:1-30 for a story too similar not to raise questions of plagiarism; the Judges story, though set at a later date, is probably more ancient than this one)

-- 19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his two daughters while drunk

-- 24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (hold the sexual organs) of someone while swearing sacred oaths

-- 25:1-6 Keeping a mistresses is not adultery

-- 26:1-11 Isaac pulls the same stunt his father Abraham did, of telling Abimelech king of the Philistines that Rebekah is his sister, not his wife. Verse 8: "Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife." The word "sporting," here, does not mean volleyball. The results were similar to what Abraham experienced.

-- 29 Laban sells his daughters, Leah and Rachael, to Jacob.

-- 30 The joys and woes of surrogate motherhood, described in great detail: wife lies face up, atop surrogate, during sex act. This passage is the basis for the main theme of Margaret Atwood's speculative novel The Handmaid's Tale.)

-- 34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled: they order the culprits to submit to painful adult circumcision to avoid punishment due them, and then slaughter them while prone from this pain

-- 35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine

-- 38:1-10 Onan's birth-control method (early withdrawal) not approved; Onan is killed by God

-- 38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law

-- 39:1-20 Potipher's wife tries to seduce Joseph by coercion; Joseph refuses; the wife accuses Joseph of attempted rape; Joseph is imprisoned unjustly

-- 47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh (hold his father's testicles) to swear an oath


Exodus

-- 20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness

-- 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

-- 22:18 Reason for murder of millions of innocent women: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

-- 22:19 Death decreed for bestiality

Leviticus

-- 12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin

-- 13:40-41 On baldness: "And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean. And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean."

-- 15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean

-- 15:19-33 Menstruation is unclean: elaborate taboos regarding menstruation

-- 15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for having menstrual periods

-- 18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination

-- 18:23 More bestiality laws for this nomadic tribe of illiterate goatherders. (Now why would they feel the need to enact so many laws against this practice?)

-- 19:1,20-22 Slave-Adultery Law: the man gets forgiven, the slave girl gets flogged

-- 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

-- 20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death

-- 20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals

-- 20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (the poor innocent beast dies too)

-- 24:16 Death for pronouncing the name of the Yahweh the Volcano God

-- 26:29 Curse: You shall eat your sons and daughters


Numbers

-- 5:11-31 God's fidelity test is for women only

-- 31:1-18 Captured virgins to be kept "for yourselves"; other captives are to be slain; 32 virgins

-- 31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites

-- 31:40 Ritual Human Sacrifice performed by Moses and Eleazar: "And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons."


Deuteronomy

-- 3:1-7 Kill all men, women, and children

-- 13:6-10 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[7] Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
[8] Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[9] But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[10] And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

-- 21:10-14 God okays captured maidens to be used as wives on a trial basis

-- 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die..."

-- 22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, and vice versa

-- 22:13-21 A bride who is found not to be a virgin must be put to death

-- 22:23-26 God's law: a virgin raped in the city is to be given no pity

-- 22:28-29 Paying a father to have sex with his daughter

-- 23:1 "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."

-- 23:2 Child born out of wedlock condemned as bastard; offspring punished for the next 10 generations

-- 23:10-11 Cleaning up after nocturnal emissions -- described rather obliquely in the King James

-- 23:13-14 Be sure to bury your fecal matter with a paddle. Why? "For the Lord thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp..."

-- 24:1 Man can divorce his wife by evicting her

-- 25:5-10 A woman has cause to spit in a man's face

-- 25:11-12 God's law: a married woman shall have her hand cut off for grabbing a man's private parts in defense of her husband against a brutal attacker: "thine eye shall not pity her"

-- 28:27 Hemorrhoids ("emerods") are a punishment for sin

-- 28:30 Lord's curse: Another man shall lie with the groom's bride first

-- 28:53-57 God's curse: Eat your own body and your own children


Joshua

-- 5:3 "And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins."


Judges

-- 3:20-22 A dagger is thrust into a fat king's gut

-- 4:4-22 Hammer-and-nail murder by a woman

-- 8:30 Gideon had many wives and concubines

-- 11:29-40 Jephtha's zeal for the Lord: he makes his daughter become a human sacrifice in order not to break an oath he made, but lets her weep with her girlfriends before he kills her

-- 19:1-30 Man gives his daughter to be raped and ruined by testosterone-enraged men who, at first, sought to ah heck his male houseguest (see also Genesis 19:1-8 for a strikingly similar story; this is probably the more ancient, upon which the story of Lot and his daughters is based)

-- 21:6-25 Amidst carnage, virgins are captured to become wives. Again.


Ruth

-- 3:6-9 To "hook" him as husband, Ruth sleeps with Boaz

-- 4:9-10 Boaz buys Ruth


I Samuel

-- 5:9-12 Philistines are "smitten with emerods" (hemorrhoids) as punishment for stealing the ark of the covenant

-- 6:1-5 To placate God, the Philistines make golden images of emerods (hemorrhoidal polyps). This technique works like a charm.

-- 15:3 God orders Saul to kill suckling babes

-- 18:23-27 Two hundred Philistine foreskins purchase David a king's daughter

-- 20:40-41 "And Jonathan gave his artillery unto his lad, and said unto him, Go, carry them to the city. And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded." (The translation by James Moffat omits the word that the King James translates as "exceeded," making it seem as if this Hebrew scholar might know more than we; he translates it, instead, using the virgule (three dots), thus: "until David...")

-- 25:22,34 "Any that pisseth against the wall"


II Samuel

-- 3:7 More concubine hanky-panky

-- 5:13 David had many wives, concubines

-- 11:1-27 Uriah is sent to the front line to lose his life so that the righteous David can get Uriah's beautiful wife, who is already pregnant by David.

-- 12:7-12 Obscene performance to be viewed by all Israel

-- Chapter 13 Amnon rapes his sister

-- 16:20-23 Absalom copulates with his father's concubines on a rooftop

-- 20:3 David imprisons his concubines for the frolic with Absalom


I Kings

-- 1:1-4 A virgin is ordered to accompany righteous David in his bed as therapy

-- 11:1-10 Wise Solomon has wives and concubines galore

-- 14:10 "And will cut off from Jeroboam him that pisseth against the wall"

-- 16:11 "He slew all the house of Baasha: he left him not one that pisseth against a wall"

-- 21:21 "And will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall"


II Kings

-- 2:23-24 Children mock the Prophet Elisha for his baldness; Elisha "cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

-- 6:24-33 "So we boiled my son, and did eat him"

-- 9:8 "and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall"

-- 23:7 Houses of homosexuals destroyed: "And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD"


I Chronicles

-- 1:32-33 Abraham's concubines have children


II Chronicles

-- 11:21 King Rehoboam had 18 wives and 60 concubines


Esther

-- Chapters 1-2 A sexual contest is to decide the new queen: The original queen refused to dance naked before the king's bawdy guests, so she is banished for having upheld her womanly dignity. The king then defiles a different virgin "in the king's chambers" every night for over three years (this means that at least 1,000 young women were sacrificed to this man, as non-virgins could not marry). Esther eventually wins the contest and is crowned queen. (Nowhere does the bible denounce this affair.)


Job

-- 21:24 "His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow." (The other translations vary widely as to what this passage from "The Word Of God" really means.)


Psalms

-- 137:9 "Happy shall he be that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."


Proverbs (on child rearing)

-- 13:14 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

-- 19:18 "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."

-- 20:30 "The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly."

-- 22:15 "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

-- 23:13-14 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

-- 29:15, 17 "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.... Correct thy son, and he shall give thee rest; yea, he shall give delight unto thy soul."

Song of Solomon (the entire thing is pure gratuitous pornography -- I know it when I see it!)

-- 2:3 "I sat down under his shadow with great delight, and his fruit was sweet to my taste." Sat in his shadow? Tasted his fruit? My, my!

-- 5:4 Killer foreplay: "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him."

-- 7:2 Before bikini waxing became popular: "Thy navel is like a round goblet, which wanteth not liquor: thy belly is like an heap of wheat set about with lilies."


Isaiah

-- 3:16 "...and the Lord will discover their secret parts"

-- 9:20 Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm

-- 14:21-22 Slaughter children for fathers' iniquity

-- 16:11 God's boast: "My bowels shall sound like an harp"

-- 36:12 More eating of dung and drinking of piss


Jeremiah

-- 16:4 Grievous, obscene deaths


Lamentations

-- 2:19-20 God's judgement described: "Behold, O LORD, and consider to whom thou hast done this. Shall the women eat their fruit, and children of a span long?"

-- 4:10 Women boil children for food


Ezekiel

-- 4:12-15 God tells Ezekiel to eat bread defiled with human dung "that cometh out of a man in their sight. Ezekiel objects on grounds of the Jewish dietary laws. God changes his mind and orders Ezekiel to eat food defiled with cow's dung instead of with human dung.

-- 5:8-10 What's for dinner?

-- 8:2 God exposes himself to Exekiel

-- 16:15 Fornications pour out

-- 16:36-37 Their "filthiness poured out..."

-- 23:1-40 The donkey-cocks-and-horse-cum passage (verse 20).

-- 29:7-8 God performs bloody castration via a sword.


Hosea

-- 1:2-11 God tells Hosea to take two whores to wife

-- 2:1-15 Naturally, complications ensue (lewdly described; this passage is supposedly a metaphor).


Nahum

-- 3:4-6 The Lord: "I will discover thy skirts upon thy face..."


Malachi

-- 2:1-4 Yahweh the volcano god: "I will ... spread dung on your faces..."

Matthew

-- 5:27-30 Admiring a woman's form equated with adultery.

-- 5:31-32 Contrary to Mosaic law, a man can divorce wife for fornication only

-- 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword."

-- 10:35-6 "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

-- 15:4 Jesus reiterates the commandment to kill children for cursing their parents: "For God commanded, saying, Honor thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say,... [snip] ... Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." (Jesus, reinforcing God's commandment from Exodus 21:17, Leviticus 20:9, and particularly Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which detail the requirement that parents bring stubborn boys to the city gates to be executed by stoning. Here, Jesus criticizes the humanitarian efforts of the Pharisees, who struggled for centuries to find ways to soften the impact of this brutal commandment, and to make it virtually unenforceable.)

-- 19:3-9 Contrary to Mosaic law, a man who divorces and remarries is adulterer.

-- 19:12 Castrate yourself for Jesus

-- 22:24-30 Law of Onan explained

-- 24:19 Woe to them that are with child.


Luke

-- 2:21 Eight-day-old Jesus undergoes the butal ritual of circumcision.

-- 2:22 Mary is unclean after Jesus' birth

-- 12:51-2 "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three."

-- 14:26 You cannot be Jesus' disciple unless you hate your mother, father, and family: "If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

-- 19:27 "But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

-- 20:34-35 You have a better chance of getting to heaven if you don't get married.


John

-- 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
(Regardless of what it "really means," this passage was, for centuries, used to justify burining heretics at the stake. Frankly, we think that it "really means" literally burning heretics, if not at the stake then in the Christian Hell: we think a literal burning of heretics was the original intent of whoever originally wrote this passage, be it Jesus, John, or some forger.)


Acts

-- 5:38 Eunuch baptized

-- 15:24 Circumcision is not really a commandment

-- 16:3 Paul circumcises an adult


Romans

-- 1:26-32 Gay men and lesbians are "worthy of death"; homosexuality and homosexual urges result from God's judgement.

-- 7:6-8:4 Mankind is powerless to exercise self-control against his passions; therefore, a man can be excused from God's judgement if he has faith in Christ.

-- 13:1-6 Obey your nation's leader -- even if it's Hitler!


I Corinthians

-- 6:17-20 Abstain from sex:

"But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

-- 7:1-40 To be more holy, refrain from sex wholly

-- 7:7-9 The Christian "Family Values" is a Christian fantasy: First, it is best not to even get married:

"For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I."

But if you cannot contain your lust, go ahead and get married:

"But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." In other words, the purpose of woman is to serve as the outlet for the lusts of men.

-- 7:18-19 If you're not circumcised, stay that way

-- 11:3-15 Man is the head of the woman; only the man is in image and glory of God

-- 14:24-35 Women, keep in silence; you may learn only from husbands


Galatians

-- 5:1-4 Paul speaks against circumcision


Ephesians

-- 5:22-23 Wives, submit to your husbands


Colossians

-- 3:18 More "Wives Submit yourselves..."


I Timothy

-- 2:9 Women adorn yourselves in shamefacedness

-- 2:11-14 Women should learn in silence in all subjection: Eve was sinful, Adam blameless; therefore (it is strongly implied), women are inferior to men

-- 2:15 Women will not die in childbirth if they "continue in faith and charity and holiness"

-- 3:2,12 More than one wife is okay unless you are a bishop or a deacon

-- 6:1-5 Human slavery is endorsed; withdraw from any who teach otherwise.


I Peter

-- 3:1-7 Women should talk to their husbands in fear


Revelation

-- 17:1-6 A whore is stripped, burned, and eaten.
Even if this is "only metaphor," do you want your children having nightmares over this imagery? If not, then keep the Bible out of their hands until they are mature enough to know that it is just a brutal, barbaric political tract that somehow got way out of hand.

 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
in some passages God seems to tacitly sanction rape. In the Old Testament Moses encourages his men to use captured virgins for their own sexual pleasure, i.e. to rape them. After urging his men to kill the male captives and female captive who are not virgins he says: "But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves (Num. 31: 18)." God then explicitly rewards Moses by urging him to distribute the spoils. He does not rebuke Moses or his men (Num. 31: 25-27).

Second, when rape is condemned in the Old Testament the woman's rights and her psychological welfare are ignored.[15] For example: "If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father fifty skelels of silver, and she shall be his wife, and he may not put her away all of his days (Deut:22; 28-29)." Here the victim of rape is as treated the property of the father. Since the rapist has despoiled the father's property he must pay a bridal fee. The women apparently has no say in the matter and is forced to marry the person who raped her. Notice also if they are not discovered, no negative judgment is forthcoming. The implicit message seems to be that if you rape an unbetrothed virgin, be sure not to get caught.

In the case of the rape of a betrothed virgin in a city, the Bible says that both the rapist and victim should be stoned to death: the rapist because he violated his neighbor's wife and the victim because she did not cry for help (Deut. 22: 23-25). Again the assumption is that the rapist dispoiled the property of another man and so must pay with this life. Concern for the welfare of the victim does not seem to matter. Moreover, it is assumed that in all cases that a rape victim could cry for help and if she did, she would be heard and rescued. Both of these assumptions are very dubious and sensitive to the contextual aspects of rape.

On the other hand, according to the Bible, the situation is completely different if the rape occurs in "open country." Here the rapist should be killed, not the victim. The reason given is that if a woman cried for help in open country, she would not be heard. Consequently, she could not be blamed for allowing the rape to occur. No mention is made about the psychological harm to victim. No condemnation is made of a rapist in open country, let alone in a city, who does not get caught.


loads more can be found here
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,697
6,474
126
It never ceases to amaze me that God condons exactly what I want to do. I am blessed that way I guess.
 

Konigin

Platinum Member
Jan 21, 2003
2,358
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Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Sorry, but I think a billion people are wrong. Religion is nothing but superstition and folklore. When people were ignorant of science it was easy to convince them that magic and imaginary beings were real. I am truly amazed at the people that still believe in religion, astrology, fortune tellers, etc.. Peace will never come to this world untill people realize that they themselves have the only real influnce over their lives. <BR>That there are no rewards or punishments in some afterlife. All you have is what you do here. Hard to raise an army if everybody knows that death is final. Same for terrorists; no rewards in heaven, no point.

Yeah, but with wars we'll kill each other off a lot quicker and then find out who is really right. :)