You have your head up your ass, or you've only had the worst teachers in the easiest district in the world. ***EDIT: oh, you're in Canada...well, same thing then
***bignateyk is exactly right. Studies have shown that a teacher works as many or more hours in the their year than does a full time employee other places...that works out to many hours per day than most jobs.
I've never heard of a school that you can get out of in less than 8 hours, and once you include meetings, after-school programs, extra classes, etc you're almost always at 9-10. Then there's paper grading, research, etc.
High school is 6-8 periods everywhere I've been or seen (yes, with one planning period).
Now lets look at the stress of working in an underfunded, unsupported position, dealing with kids and their parents, and crushed between them and the massive onslaught of bureaucracy. Let's look at how much of your own salary you have to put back into the classroom just to have what you need to do your job (at least at elementary levels).
In short, you either live in your own little world, or you don't have an f'ing clue. ***EDIT: sry, didn't know you were Canadian. You are the third option: you live in an entirely different system than we have.***
dullard
Elite Member
- May 21, 2001
- 26,024
- 4,650
- 126
Teachers get paid far more than most people think. In many cities, $50-$60k is fairly common for teachers. My sister gets in the upper $60k range for teaching preschool in Chicago and she has been teaching fewer than 10 years.
Of course, if you go rural, you'll likely be in the $40k range. Or if you go private you'll probably be in the $30k range since most private schools are very poor in funding.
Even then it isn't bad. School is in session only 180 days a year. Add in prep days and administration days and you are working 200 days a year. The typical work year is 50 weeks * 5 days = 250 days. That means you get 50 more days of vacation OR 50 days where you can still work as a patent attorney. That could easilly boost a $50k salary right up to the level that you want to earn.
Of course, if you go rural, you'll likely be in the $40k range. Or if you go private you'll probably be in the $30k range since most private schools are very poor in funding.
Even then it isn't bad. School is in session only 180 days a year. Add in prep days and administration days and you are working 200 days a year. The typical work year is 50 weeks * 5 days = 250 days. That means you get 50 more days of vacation OR 50 days where you can still work as a patent attorney. That could easilly boost a $50k salary right up to the level that you want to earn.
And he's a substitute teacher. He doesn't have to deal with the shit that real teachers have to put up with.
Gooberlx2
Lifer
- May 4, 2001
- 15,381
- 6
- 91
Baseless in his personal experience? The fact that his preempted his entire statement by mentioning he's in Canada? Bitter by his excitement to become fulltime while pointing out the current benefits to being a sub/supply?
STFU tool. If anyone's making statements rooted in bitterness or resentment it's you.
Business profs tend to be higher paid than others with less marketable skills. Many of my business profs also did consulting work on the side as well.
The thing is, assuming he has a ph.d in accounting or some other business field, how much is he giving up by teaching instead of working in the industry?
With that said though, many of my business profs had a genuine academic interest in the subjects they taught, and they loved what they did.
Well, the experience of a canadian sub does not at all reflect the typical experience of someone entering the teaching profession in the U.S. So it was pretty baseless.
Jschmuck2
Diamond Member
- Jul 13, 2005
- 5,623
- 3
- 81
And furthermore, I don't think the opinion of an employee in a private, Catholic school district in Canada is a particuar.
Furthermore, looking over the job description, what a "supply" employee seems to be is an educational aide and NOT a subsitute teacher. In other words it is a classified position.
Furthermore, looking over the job description, what a "supply" employee seems to be is an educational aide and NOT a subsitute teacher. In other words it is a classified position.
This is something that has interested me also. I've taken a few online classes and I remember one of my professors in particular was living in some small town in the North Cascades. He was an astronomy teacher, must have had a dream job because he showed pictures in the beginning of the course where he was living in some mountain valley skiing all the time. Since it was a science course most of the work did not require him to analyze it to grade, the only work he had to do was participate in threaded discussions. So basically like coming to an ATOT for an hour or two where you are the most knowledgeable person.
HumblePie
Lifer
- Oct 30, 2000
- 14,665
- 440
- 126
When it comes to teaching and pay, it depends on WHAT you want to teach and what you are qualified for really.
If you are looking to go into public school teaching, elem through high school ,and want to make decent money you need to be a teacher of subjects that matter.
Actually, just stay away from elementary schools, since that is general education teaching and is usually quite low paying.
Get a high school job and either teach one of these subjects: upper math courses such as calculus or trig, upper science courses such as physics, upper computer courses such as junior or senior level computer science, or a sports coach for a prominent sports school.
Why only those? Well statistically, the majority of people who want to teach are female. It's just mainly a female dominated vocation. As such, the majority of females by nature of the female brain typically are not good with math, science, or computer course. Nor are they usually cut out to be big football coaches. I am NOT saying all females, because my high school computer science teacher who was brilliant was a female. I'm just saying that the VAST majority of female teachers are not good at that subject.
This means if you want to teach English, Art, Music, History, a foreign language, or some other such subject which females typically excel at, then you are going to be on a LONG waiting list for a crappy job with little pay.
It's all supply and demand.
I remember right before I got my current job a long while back, I was looking for work to do and almost went into teaching. All the schools around Texas were basically looking for teachers in the aforementioned subjects that are typically math heavy, and not for other subjects. Many schools post on their websites starting wages based on subjects. The math ones typically started 50% to 200% more in base pay. If the school was a good one and actually payed decent money for all subjects, such as 40K+ starting for English for example, the waiting list to be an English teacher was typically FIVE YEARS. I'm serious. However, if you were qualified to teach mechanical physics, you could start between 60K and 80K, depending on other factors and qualifications, and start within weeks. No teacher degree or certification needed.
However, if you didn't have a teachers degree or state certification, then your first year of teaching was to "earn" your certification by being "mentored" for it. In reality this means that you are a teacher, but you have to be mentored into it and pay a mentoring fee which comes out of your paycheck. It's not much, but this way you can start teaching immediately usually.
Actually, if you were looking to teach for a highly critical subject for a highly dangerous school.. you could even earn more. Teaching for the "big" and "nice" and "rich" schools typically means LESS pay for a teacher. Teaching for a school known to put many kids into JV or eventually jail can double or triple your salary base. Assuming the risk is worth it to you, then you could make a lot of money for a couple years there, earn your certificate, and move on to somewhere else you liked better if you wanted too.
All that info above was info I gathered when I was looking into teaching for a public school. My original conclusion was if I really wanted to teach, just get a real 40 hour a week job and teach college courses on nights or weekends. Make more money that way and still get the "satisfaction" of being a teacher if that is what you are aiming for.
If you are looking to go into public school teaching, elem through high school ,and want to make decent money you need to be a teacher of subjects that matter.
Actually, just stay away from elementary schools, since that is general education teaching and is usually quite low paying.
Get a high school job and either teach one of these subjects: upper math courses such as calculus or trig, upper science courses such as physics, upper computer courses such as junior or senior level computer science, or a sports coach for a prominent sports school.
Why only those? Well statistically, the majority of people who want to teach are female. It's just mainly a female dominated vocation. As such, the majority of females by nature of the female brain typically are not good with math, science, or computer course. Nor are they usually cut out to be big football coaches. I am NOT saying all females, because my high school computer science teacher who was brilliant was a female. I'm just saying that the VAST majority of female teachers are not good at that subject.
This means if you want to teach English, Art, Music, History, a foreign language, or some other such subject which females typically excel at, then you are going to be on a LONG waiting list for a crappy job with little pay.
It's all supply and demand.
I remember right before I got my current job a long while back, I was looking for work to do and almost went into teaching. All the schools around Texas were basically looking for teachers in the aforementioned subjects that are typically math heavy, and not for other subjects. Many schools post on their websites starting wages based on subjects. The math ones typically started 50% to 200% more in base pay. If the school was a good one and actually payed decent money for all subjects, such as 40K+ starting for English for example, the waiting list to be an English teacher was typically FIVE YEARS. I'm serious. However, if you were qualified to teach mechanical physics, you could start between 60K and 80K, depending on other factors and qualifications, and start within weeks. No teacher degree or certification needed.
However, if you didn't have a teachers degree or state certification, then your first year of teaching was to "earn" your certification by being "mentored" for it. In reality this means that you are a teacher, but you have to be mentored into it and pay a mentoring fee which comes out of your paycheck. It's not much, but this way you can start teaching immediately usually.
Actually, if you were looking to teach for a highly critical subject for a highly dangerous school.. you could even earn more. Teaching for the "big" and "nice" and "rich" schools typically means LESS pay for a teacher. Teaching for a school known to put many kids into JV or eventually jail can double or triple your salary base. Assuming the risk is worth it to you, then you could make a lot of money for a couple years there, earn your certificate, and move on to somewhere else you liked better if you wanted too.
All that info above was info I gathered when I was looking into teaching for a public school. My original conclusion was if I really wanted to teach, just get a real 40 hour a week job and teach college courses on nights or weekends. Make more money that way and still get the "satisfaction" of being a teacher if that is what you are aiming for.
DVad3r
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2005
- 5,340
- 3
- 81
Actually subs have a tough time, especially going into a crazy class with the kids already assuming it's going to be an easy day. The only thing I don't deal with and I am thankful for it is the parents. Nothing is worse than a whiny parent complaining about shit, and putting the fear of god into the principle with threats of lawsuits or complaints. The whole school system is on their toes here when it comes to parents.
DVad3r
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2005
- 5,340
- 3
- 81
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You have your head up your ass, or you've only had the worst teachers in the easiest district in the world. ***EDIT: oh, you're in Canada...well, same thing then
bignateyk is exactly right. Studies have shown that a teacher works as many or more hours in the their year than does a full time employee other places...that works out to many hours per day than most jobs.
I've never heard of a school that you can get out of in less than 8 hours, and once you include meetings, after-school programs, extra classes, etc you're almost always at 9-10. Then there's paper grading, research, etc.
High school is 6-8 periods everywhere I've been or seen (yes, with one planning period).
Now lets look at the stress of working in an underfunded, unsupported position, dealing with kids and their parents, and crushed between them and the massive onslaught of bureaucracy. Let's look at how much of your own salary you have to put back into the classroom just to have what you need to do your job (at least at elementary levels).
In short, you either live in your own little world, or you don't have an f'ing clue. ***EDIT: sry, didn't know you were Canadian. You are the third option: you live in an entirely different system than we have.***
Wow man that's insane, 6-8 peroids of high school? Jesus... I am going to say that we have it realllllly good here compared to you guys when it comes to the teaching field. If they ever introduced the same policies here we would go on strike instantly. On the contrary we are actually fighting for more free time/planning time and higher pay.
Alright so here is my most updates USA vs Canada tally
USA: 24589323 (gotta love that motorcycle insurance and newegg and not being taxed when you buy shit on ebay)
Canada: 1 (teachers win here)
DVad3r
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2005
- 5,340
- 3
- 81
Umm did you see how many schools my board has, not to mention students/employees? It's the 2nd largest board in the GTA, after the Toronto District School Board. And our board isn't even as good as TDSB, they make even more...
Also, it's not a private board, it's government, yes the country funds a government catholic school system. Peon.
Drekce
Golden Member
- Sep 29, 2000
- 1,398
- 0
- 76
My wife is a Chemistry teacher and works from about 7:30-3:30. She teaches 5/7 periods and gets most of her grading and other related work done during that time, which means minimal work at home. This is at the most prestigious private prep school in Central Florida, so being a bad teacher is not permitted.
DVad3r
Diamond Member
- Jan 3, 2005
- 5,340
- 3
- 81
Do you work in the school system? Honestly what the fuck do you know? Some teachers slack and have it super easy, and still get paid like everyone else. There are up's and down's of every profession. Despite how being a teacher in America sucks, I am sure there are a bunch that don't do fuck all, and milk the system for what it's worth. You are making teaching sound like it's a science and everyone who works in the profession works their asses off. I don't speak for myself because I actually do work, but believe me, that's not the case for many.
My school effectively had 4 periods. Technically, there were 8, but it came out to be 4 1.5 hour blocks of teaching time. Then there was a 35 minute lunch period and a 35 minute study hall. He's off by a bit on the time, but I'm not sure why you're calling him a moron.
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