So I raised my voice, borderline yelled at, neighbor kid. Am I wrong?

[Murloc]

honestly you didn't do anything wrong, the situation was already degenerate and the other kid was being taken inside so I guess game was over, telling him to go home was the right thing regardless, and he should have obliged. Being given "unfair" orders from adults is part of childhood. They have to learn their place and just let unimportant things go, respect authority etc.
for the yelling part, it's the only thing that works sometimes, because kids are not adults.
also it was your property.

 

[ChopperDave]

Situation: Three boys (my son and 2 neighbor kids) are playing basketball in my back yard. Neighbor kid1 gets mad and tackles neighbor kid2. Neighbor kid2 hits the tackling kid1. I break it up and ask tackling kid1 to go home two times (kid2 who hit him was grabbed by his mom and taken inside, as she was outside with my wife and I). During my first 2 requests to have kid1 go home, kid1 tries to explain why he shouldn't have to leave and what happened from his perspective. I raise voice, borderline yelling, during the "request to leave #3" and tell kid1 very firmly (straight on eye contact...dad stare) to go home NOW!

Outcome: Kid1's dad gets upset and comes to talk to me. He states he doesn't yell at his kids and doesn't want me to. I tell him I have no tolerance for kids who generally don't respect other supervising adults. All the boys involved are 8 years old. Was I wrong to raise my voice to a kid who can't follow simple instructions after being told twice what to do? My wife thinks so and I do not.

My general opinion is it's my house, my rules, and if you don't want me to raise my voice you can follow my instructions the first time they are given. Kid or adult, it really doesn't matter to me. Also, kid1's dad is welcome to get his lazy ass outside and help supervise the kids, because he pretty much stays inside 95%+ of the time while we supervise his kid. If he was available to help supervise, I'd gladly let him handle his own kid when crap like this happens, as I have two of my own boys to worry about and discipline if necessary.

Dad aptly demonstrated why his kid didn't listen to you: kid isn't accustomed to being required to listen.

I don't think you did anything wrong. My house works the same way - my house my rules. If other parents don't like it then don't send your kids to my house. When you're at my house I expect you to listen to me and follow the rules.

Then there's the fact that he broke Cardinal Rule NUMBER ONE: when someone tells you to leave their home/property YOU DO IT.

Bonus points: tell the dad that if his son would like to continue to be welcomed at your home he will be expected to not instigate physical altercations.

 

[Imp]

As long as you don't go totally apeshit and don't even hint at putting a finger on him for ANY reason (don't grab/hold arm), go for it.

I remember some fuc*ing asshole teachers in my day. One yelled and used a table to shove an entire group of grade 8 kids.

 

[ChopperDave]

Your house, your rules. Kids need to learn to respect the adults.

However, I would have talked to both kids first, made them apologize to each other, and if they behaved, let them keep playing. If they don't apologize, then they would have to leave.

If a second outbreak occurred, then that is when I'd tell one or both kids to leave.

This is actually worse than what the OP did because now you're parenting two children who aren't your own.

When a scuffle between kids breaks out on your property you diffuse it and end it ASAP. Then you make the parents aware of what happened and let them deal with it as they see fit. Trying to make two kids - who aren't yours - apologize or do this or that can be more problematic than you think.

 

[ch33zw1z]

This is actually worse than what the OP did because now you're parenting two children who aren't your own.

When a scuffle between kids breaks out on your property you diffuse it and end it ASAP. Then you make the parents aware of what happened and let them deal with it as they see fit. Trying to make two kids - who aren't yours - apologize or do this or that can be more problematic than you think.

You make a good point. I would tell both kids that if they can't play together without fighting then don't bother coming back. And tell that lazy dad the same thing...

 

[ChopperDave]

If you spanked your child, would you spank a kid who was over at your house and was doing something that you would spank your child for? What if the father of the kid was there?

slippery slope argument fail

Plus it's not analogous. The spanking is presumably punishment and a teaching tool. I'm not saying I advocate or don't advocate spanking but that's what it is.

Getting kid1 out of there was just to end the situation NOW. It wasn't punishment or to teach him a lesson.

So analogy fail too.

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

slippery slope argument fail

It was actually a serious question. If there's a child misbehaving in your house and you would spank your own child for doing it, wouldn't you spank that child misbehaving as well? Your house, your rules?

 

[Phoenix86]

If the neighbor wants to discuss parenting you should focus on how his kid started a fight, argued with an adult at their home, and was told to leave and didn't.

Don't worry OP, you did fine.

Just don't say "everyone online thinks I was right" to your wife.

 

[ChopperDave]

It was actually a serious question. If there's a child misbehaving in your house and you would spank your own child for doing it, wouldn't you spank that child misbehaving as well? Your house, your rules?

I don't doubt it was a serious question. That doesn't change the fact that you're setting up to argue against yelling at this kid by using a slippery slope argument. The problem is we're not mindless robots and most of us parents can appreciate the difference between spanking (punishment) someone else's child to teach them not to do something again in the future versus yelling at the kid to leave the property after behind ignored twice before (terminating the situation).

Different tools and different goals. Not at all the same thing.

Certainly you can appreciate the not so subtle differences here. Or were you just aiming to have an argument on the literal terms of "my house my rules"?

 

[Drako]

Meh, you should have smacked the kid.





j/k

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

I don't doubt it was a serious question. That doesn't change the fact that you're setting up to argue against yelling at this kid by using a slippery slope argument. The problem is we're not mindless robots and most of us parents can appreciate the difference between spanking (punishment) someone else's child to teach them not to do something again in the future versus yelling at the kid to leave the property after behind ignored twice before (terminating the situation).

Different tools and different goals. Not at all the same thing.

Certainly you can appreciate the not so subtle differences here. Or were you just aiming to have an argument on the literal terms of "my house my rules"?

Ahh. I understand where you're coming from. Makes sense now.

 

[AeroEngy]

Damn people are oversensitive about their preciously perfect little kids.
I think I was yelled at by neighbors on a few rare occasions. (Rural life, and shortcuts through yards was quicker than taking the long road around.)
If I even told my parents that I got yelled at, I'd get something like, "Good. You shouldn't have been doing that."

Oh what horrors and trauma I suffered.

This, if I got yelled at by an adult when I was a kid it was more or less assumed I deserved it from my parents. Then I would get it a 100 times worse from them for acting like an idiot in public / neighbor's house. Only had to happen once and then I was forever on my best behavior (yes sir, no sir, please, and thank you).

 

[Childs]

I would have punched kid 1's father in the stomach and reenacted Training Day:

I'm the man up in this piece. ... who the fuck do you think you're fucking with? I run shit around here. You just live here. Yeah, that's right, you better walk away. Go on and walk away... 'cause I'm gonna' burn this motherfucker down.

But in some seriousness, back in my day it wouldnt have been uncommon for a neighbor to break up a fight physically, and if you talked back your got spanked or got your ear tore off while they dragged you home. Or they broke out the switch. As long as you are not the asshole neighbor who gets on everyones nerves, you should have the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ChopperDave]

Yep I got yelled at by my neighbors and my friends parents. If I screwed up someone was there to yell at me. It didn't scar me and it didn't make me whine back to my parents. In fact my parents finding out was the last thing I wanted to happen and I sure as hell wasn't dumb enough to blow the whistle on myself.

Now if my dad had a huge gaping vagina and his estrogen shots had dissolved his spine then yeah maybe as a kid I would have gone crying to him to rub the booboo and make the mean people go away.

 

[Doppel]

Hard to say based on your story. Children at a young age have a natural inclination toward justice and do not like to be wrongly accused; they'll verbally defend their action, so it's possible he was doing that and deserved a chance to tell his story. And even if he's generally respectful this assertiveness could have been the result of advocating for himself.

Or, he's just a disprespectful little sh*t and shouldn't have to be told twice. I can't say

I was lightly scolded from time to time by friends' parents. Never fun, but sometimes it has to happen.

 

[Onita]

Good lord - all my neighbors had no issues yelling at any of the kids when I was younger.

 

[Golgatha]

I ask the OP: After the 1rst time you told kid1 to leave and he started to explain why he thought he shouldnt have to leave, did you let him finish? Did you interrupt him and explain why you don't need to hear his explanation as you saw everything and you decided he should go home?

I think if you said go, and stated why he had to leave but still would not, then you're good.

I believe I simply stated they needed to cool their heads off and that he needed to go home for the rest of the day. I would have followed up with the dad if he had simply left, but obviously that took care of itself. Kid2 is the next door neighbor's kid, and he was carried inside under one arm crying and screaming. Mom was not happy.

 

[highland145]

Good lord - all my neighbors had no issues yelling at any of the kids when I was younger.

Or spanking us because we needed it.

I'm more than happy to yell at unruly kids in my office. Parents don't like it, GTFO. My old office had a raised "planter box" in the window. Kids would want to climb on a chair and try to get into it. Yelling would commence. Parents would look offended. "Would you be more or less offended when your kid falls through and gets cut in half by that 10' x 12' 50 year old plate glass window?"

 

[AMDZen]

The dad doesn't "yell" at his kid?

Pussification of America continues

 

[Golgatha]

slippery slope argument fail

Plus it's not analogous. The spanking is presumably punishment and a teaching tool. I'm not saying I advocate or don't advocate spanking but that's what it is.

Getting kid1 out of there was just to end the situation NOW. It wasn't punishment or to teach him a lesson.

So analogy fail too.

I'd never corporally punish (i.e. spank, hit, etc) another person's child. Not my job and too much potential liability these days. And you're right, I was defusing a situation and demanded immediate vacation of the premises. Teaching came during talking with the dad and to him directly. Looking a kid straight in the eyes and laying down what you find acceptable and not acceptable, as well as laying out your specific expectations for their behavior is a powerful tool. The punishment phase if the behavior continues will include not being able to play at my house and/or with my son. I like the idea of requiring one of his parents to be present, either indefinitely or for a specified amount of time, when he is playing at my house if/when something like this happens a 2nd time.

As much as I believe in physically defending yourself when attacked, I WILL NOT condone fighting in my yard. Especially over a trivial game of basketball. From what my wife tells me, kid1 is a "challenging" student to have in the classroom. He plays football and is quite aggressive when he plays (of course, if the aggression would stay on the field, that would be a great outlet for him). Couple that will weak (IMO) parenting and you've got a real winning recipe for a teenage version of kid1.

 

[mvbighead]

Yelling to get your point across shows a lack of communication skills. Do you yell at your coworkers/subordinates too?

Kids are a whole different animal than subordinates. Especially kids with shitty parents.

My nephew gave me some back talk one day. The general gist was, I wasn't his dad, so I had no authority. I let his dad straighten that one out for me.

In any case, if some kid is visiting my (future tense) kid and starts causing problems or is involved in a problem, he may be asked to leave. A raised voice may be the byproduct of non-compliance, and the father of that child may be asked to deal with it later. I don't see that as a big deal.

Spanking another's kid, on the other hand, is a problem.

 

[Golgatha]

Yelling to get your point across shows a lack of communication skills. Do you yell at your coworkers/subordinates too?

Apples and oranges. I yell at my subordinates after the first time they don't respond .

In all seriousness, it is apples and oranges. Defusing two 8 year olds fighting is a bit different than communicating in the office...most of the time .

 

[waggy]

i think you handled it right.

What is this slippery slope bullshit? lol /facepalm

 

[Golgatha]

If you spanked your child, would you spank a kid who was over at your house and was doing something that you would spank your child for? What if the father of the kid was there?

I've already stated I don't spank other peoples kids. If the father was present and did nothing, I'd ask both of them to leave. What the kid did deserved a spanking and if the kid hadn't brought dad to me, I'd have walked down and had a conversation with him.

 

[Golgatha]

Then there's the fact that he broke Cardinal Rule NUMBER ONE: when someone tells you to leave their home/property YOU DO IT.

Bonus points: tell the dad that if his son would like to continue to be welcomed at your home he will be expected to not instigate physical altercations.

Yes, if you're told to leave private property, you leave it. You don't need a reason to comply.

Bonus points for me: Since the dad came up to talk with me, both of them got to hear me say I absolutely won't tolerate fighting, and that the boy is welcome to continue to come play if he's willing to be civil and listen and follow my directions when they're given. I think my exact words were, "when you're at my house and I ask you to do something that's not otherwise dangerous to you, I expect my instructions to be followed without argument".