So i just learned about the castes system from a coworker...

[jinduy]

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: BoomerD
hmm, but don't you dare discriminate against them for being Indian...
<double standards suck>

I am Indian. The "caste" system is a feeble generalization of how a different culture treats others classes in society. There is no caste system from where I come from. My grandfather was born into a poor family that lived in a shack and farmed their small piece of land.

Through his life, he saved and took any opportunity to educate himself and became a well respected man. He started his own radio repair shop when my father was born and started a small movie theater around when I was born.

Made enough money to send all four of his kids to the USA along with their children (one of them being me). Now we are all grads of college and work all over USA and the world. All from one man who was supposedly in a lower-than-sh!t "caste."

There are lots of Indians who are more ignorant than the worst racist you can think of in the KKK. Those are the Indians that perpetuate the image of a "caste" system in India. They are plentiful, but not the majority. India is a free country and is becoming more democratic and socially diverse every day. It just has been so corrupt for so long that there are sharp distinctions of groups in India that don't associate with each other (super rich vs. super poor).

I was always taught to give anyone a shot, because lots of people have given us shots. Caste systems are BS and a bad reflection on my cultural background. It's like saying everyone in the USA are evangelical extremists. (In that they see non-evangelicals as sinners and lower forms of humans).

I lost my track of thought. But my final point is that if there was such a thing as a caste system, it is not recognized by my family. If it were, I'd be a poor farmer who never tried to move up.

your grandpa pwns

 

[toolboxolio]

Originally posted by: jinduy

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: BoomerD
hmm, but don't you dare discriminate against them for being Indian...
<double standards suck>

I am Indian. The "caste" system is a feeble generalization of how a different culture treats others classes in society. There is no caste system from where I come from. My grandfather was born into a poor family that lived in a shack and farmed their small piece of land.

Through his life, he saved and took any opportunity to educate himself and became a well respected man. He started his own radio repair shop when my father was born and started a small movie theater around when I was born.

Made enough money to send all four of his kids to the USA along with their children (one of them being me). Now we are all grads of college and work all over USA and the world. All from one man who was supposedly in a lower-than-sh!t "caste."

There are lots of Indians who are more ignorant than the worst racist you can think of in the KKK. Those are the Indians that perpetuate the image of a "caste" system in India. They are plentiful, but not the majority. India is a free country and is becoming more democratic and socially diverse every day. It just has been so corrupt for so long that there are sharp distinctions of groups in India that don't associate with each other (super rich vs. super poor).

I was always taught to give anyone a shot, because lots of people have given us shots. Caste systems are BS and a bad reflection on my cultural background. It's like saying everyone in the USA are evangelical extremists. (In that they see non-evangelicals as sinners and lower forms of humans).

I lost my track of thought. But my final point is that if there was such a thing as a caste system, it is not recognized by my family. If it were, I'd be a poor farmer who never tried to move up.

your grandpa pwns

Thanks. He did pwn back in the day. But he has done some bad things lately that hurt the family. However, we wouldn't be where we are now if he wasn't a badass and taught us all a strong work ethic. For example, I have worked at my dad's store just about everyday since I came to this country (when I was four) up until I went to college.

Gramps lives with my parents now and is being taken care of. He is mentally ill, but not senile. Just needs to be looked after.

 

[daveymark]

which caste do the following names generally belong to:

Patel
Pradhan(sp?)
Shah

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: Vonkhan
in my 28 years of being Indian, I've cross across exactly 4 instances of discrimination / harrasment based on the caste in URBAN India.

Rural India is pretty different ... well kinda like being in Boone County, West Virginia

You mean people huff gasoline and tap dance on top of dog houses there too?

 

[lyssword]

don't mean to offend anyone, but so much for "peaceful" "common sense" Indian religion

 

[Vonkhan]

Originally posted by: daveymark
which caste do the following names generally belong to:

Patel
Pradhan(sp?)
Shah

Patel and Shah generally belong to the Vaishya (trader) community, Pradhan is usually a Shudra (or Dalit) name

 

[Mani]

I would say that case is rare here in the states. I'm a brahmin and it has never crossed my mind nor that of any of my friends or family with one notable exception - marriage. My parents would prefer that I marry another brahmin but after having dated multiple non-indian girls of different races I think they gave up on that a long time ago.

Rural India is another story though - you can think of some of them as India's equivalent of our rednecks - ignorant and often predjudiced.

 

[The Stigenator]

you know its sad that this day and age caste system still reigns over everything else.. be it technology or be it modern india.

I hate the caste system. I grew up in india and frankly i never understood it. I had friends would would say 'dont hang with so and so they are a lower caste'. I didnt give a ******, they are still my friends. I have been discriminated for being a 'lower' caste, lower than brahmin, cause i am a kshytria, which is an upper caste, and yet i remember a friends parents who frowned upon me sitting down with them for dinner. My parents and I have NEVER played the caste game, we treated everyone equal.

The problem is that the caste system is rooted very much in tradtitional indian families and most of those are the ones that come to the US, i have seen this more in the US than in india. I had a friend who couldnt date this indian girl (he is indian) because she was a lower caste and he was a brahmin. What the big deal i dont know, she wouldnt hang out with people from an upper caste after her parents reminded her who she is .. so i lost that friendship with her.

The point is that the caste system is a stupid thing from ancient india and it is holding back india. My mom technically married into a lower caste (since she is a brahmin) but then again she got married by herself in the 60's in hte US.

I think part of the problem is that generations of indians are taught what is considered 'right from wrong' but in reality they are being close minded and conservative. As an indian i can tell you the most racist people in the whole world are indians to their own brothers and sisters.

 

[LLCOOLJ]

Does the color of the Dots on their forehead distinguish their caste?

 

[eakers]

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
The poor & the uneducated out here still can't get over the caste system...but I'm shocked to hear educated Indians working in the United States have such beliefs. :shocked:

I live in Canada and two places I worked with had a problem with this. At the first place one Indian guy bullied another and at the second a supervisor would constantly write up someone of another caste until he got fired. In the second incident some kind of human rights or racism got involved because HR wouldn't do anything about it.

 

[mercanucaribe]

Originally posted by: LLKOOLJ
Does the color of the Dots on their forehead distinguish their caste?

No, they indicate their current moods.

 

[Crono]

My parents are from south India (Kerala) but I was born here in the U.S., we're Christian, and my last name is Mathews. Where would I fit into the caste system; would I be the same as a non-Indian

All the Indians that I know personally don't care about what caste they or others belong to, no matter where or what caste they are from.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: HamSupLo
what about indians marrying non-indians? how does that work?

My fiance is Indian (Brahmin), and I'm American (German). It doesn't work very well

In my fiance's culture, it's taboo to marry outside of your caste. Forget if he's an Indian; he has to be of the same caste, speak the same language and be from the same Indian state (that's pretty much a given if they speak the same language).

I work with about 2 dozen Indians, and have many very close Indian friends. I've never witnessed a single instance of conflict about castes. I've seen Pakistani-Indian conflicts, Muslim-Hindu conflicts and everything in between though.

As someone else mentioned, intercaste conflict is more likely in uneducated groups, or perhaps from villagers (that's what they call them; I don't know a polite term) that happen to be educated.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: daveymark
which caste do the following names generally belong to:

Patel
Pradhan(sp?)
Shah

Patel and Shah are Gujarati names I think, but I don't know if it signifies any particular caste. You'll find a lot of Patels in the states of course, and almost always of Gujari origin. Shah is a Persian name used for royalty of some kind. Pakistan had/has a Shah, for example.

 

[sthaznpride17]

While both my parents are brahmin, and therefore I am brahmin, as an Indian living in the USA the caste system is old and ignorant thinking for us. It is true that many rural people still beleive in it, as well as the ignorant higher caste people who think that they are the ******. Almost all modern Indian people don't care about the caste system. Although Indian parents still prefer having their children married to another Indian person.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: lyssword
don't mean to offend anyone, but so much for "peaceful" "common sense" Indian religion

What does that have to do with a discussion of castes? Nothing at all.

Also, if you researched even a little about Hinduism you'd find that many of the stories are anything but peaceful. The core philisophical tenets from the Vedas, Gita, etc. are very much so though. The philosophy is more towards common sense, but the religion is not as it's not self-evident.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: daveymark
which caste do the following names generally belong to:

Patel
Pradhan(sp?)
Shah

Patel and Shah are Gujarati names I think, but I don't know if it signifies any particular caste. You'll find a lot of Patels in the states of course, and almost always of Gujari origin. Shah is a Persian name used for royalty of some kind. Pakistan had/has a Shah, for example.

whenever i talk to my indian clients, they always say Patel is Merchant class.

 

[spacejamz]

Originally posted by: George P Burdell

Originally posted by: jinduy
to not get too specific, i have indian coworkers who pretty much despise other indians who are of a lower caste than them. one coworker mentioned that his father told him that those from a lower caste lack common sense and you shouldn't befriend one (thus why he always turns him down for lunch).

any indians on atot can vouch that they do something like this or have friends who do this?

Damn, that's seems very racist. And idiotic.

It can't be racism if they are all from the same race...definitely would be considered discrimination in the States though...

I also worked with many Indians for the past 10 years and they have also confirmed this caste system that exists over there. Pretty much if you are born into a lower caste, you have no hope for improving your status.

Just because you or i don't agree with it doesn't make it idiotic. That system has been in place longer than the United States has been in existence. If they do not know any better (or worse) or choose to do nothing about it, it is their issue, not ours.

 

[Chrono]

Meh. I hate all Indians the same.

 

[Platypus]

I've worked with lots of Indian folks who think the caste system somehow applies here in America and talk down to non-Indians as well because of it. Kind of funny I guess.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Platypus
I've worked with lots of Indian folks who think the caste system somehow applies here in America and talk down to non-Indians as well because of it. Kind of funny I guess.

True. In America we don't care what caste you are in or came from. We hate each other because of the different colors of our skin. Leave your silly caste hatred at the door you silly brown people.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Platypus
I've worked with lots of Indian folks who think the caste system somehow applies here in America and talk down to non-Indians as well because of it. Kind of funny I guess.

True. In America we don't care what caste you are in or came from. We hate each other because of the different colors of our skin.

Nah America has way more criteria to consider than just skin color

 

[Vonkhan]

The caste system is kinda racist - the lighter skinned Indo-Aryans pretty much make up the top 3 castes while the darker-skinned indegenous Indians (Dravidians) were subjugated and classified as shudras (the lowest caste).

Of course, after centuries of secret inter-f***ing, the differences in skin color aren't that obvious anymore

 

[nweaver]

We have a large indian site....someone from a lower caste just quit because he kept getting crap about his caste. He was one of the few I work with that I felt was a good geeky guy. There are some cultural things we work on breaking soon after they arrive here in the states. The first thing is that if it's broken, fix it. Don't sit there and wait for me to wander by and notice that it's "broken" and fix it for you, or come and ask me without doing a few things. I have literally plugged computer in because "it's not working, and I can't fix it".

course, I get American's who are the same way, but they all get the same "idiot" sign on them when I have to plug a machine in to the power strip to fix their issue.

 

[Safeway]

I've heard that before, and I have definitely seen it. One of my roommates was very high in the caste system, so almost every Indian he met was from a lower caste. On the rare occasion that he met another rich Indian, they were immediately the best of friends, and acted like they had grown up together.