So I got done arguing with my dad about Karl Rove

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RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
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First off, I am glad to see that TLC has finally admitted that Rove did this intentionally. Secondly, someone please state these four lies for me. Let's debunk that crap that is already out there:

1. Wilson's wife sent him. False. She made one statement that could have been construed as him being a possibility for the trip based on his experience and relationships already established with leaders of Niger. She did not have the authority to make the decision.

2. Wilson lied about Cheney sending him. False. Wilson said that he was asked to go by the CIA on a request from Cheney's office. I would like to see a transcript of the meeting where he is asked to go by someone in this forum that was present who can prove that the CIA did not state that it was Cheney's office asking for this expedition to be made.

3. Plame wasn't undercover anymore. False. Her status was still listed as CLASSIFIED. Why the hell do you think that there is an investigation in the first place!!!

4. Karl Rove never knew that Valerie Plame was covert. He could end speculation of this by simply stating it under oath. Do you think that he did that yet?

5. It's no big deal anyway. Why are we in Iraq if our national security isn't a big deal? This leak was an intentional attack to try to discredit Joe Wilson. It, at the same time, compromised national security by giving up the identity of a classified agent, disclosed the name of a CIA front company and has cost millions of dollars in taxpayer money be wasted on said front.

5. The Senate Intelligence Committee proved him wrong. False. The part of the bi-partisan committee's report that the right wing smear machine is referring to is a 3 page addendum by Senators Pat Roberts, Kit Bond and Orrin Hatch. Do you see any Dems listed there? The addendum was included with the findings report with objections by the Dems on the committee.

I would like to give you righties a homework assignment. Read and try to debunk any lies or false statements in Joe Wilson's six page response to that addendum.

You can find it here at the bottom half of the page.

 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
First off, I am glad to see that TLC has finally admitted that Rove did this intentionally. Secondly, someone please state these four lies for me. Let's debunk that crap that is already out there:

.

3. Plame wasn't undercover anymore. False. Her status was still listed as CLASSIFIED. Why the hell do you think that there is an investigation in the first place!!!

4. Karl Rove never knew that Valerie Plame was covert. He could end speculation of this by simply stating it under oath. Do you think that he did that yet?

3. Wasn't the CIA the people who requested the investigating in the first place? I think it was but connot remember and find the link to this. If that is true then her identity was classified. Why would the CIA care if she was a "desk jockey".

4. When you are working with the CIA and it agents you better know what you are saying. Ignornce is not an option.

 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: KidViciou$
how does bob "douchebag" novak fit into this? i don't hear his name come up except when jon stewart mentions it

LOL. Love the nickname. I don't like Novak, he's a shady mofo.

Word.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Originally posted by: KidViciou$
he says that since joe wilson got his job through his wife's influence, and since he made high-profile statements against the white house, he is the reason why her cover was blown, and that karl rove didn't know that she worked for the CIA

he's basically saying it's all joe wilson's fault. i told him, joe wilson could be a serial killer, the scum of the earth, AND the antichrist, and the only way people would have known valerie plame is that she is his wife, not a CIA agent. this is what fox news is programming their viewers to believe :(


Your Dad is only partially right. However, she had been "outted" prior to her husband divulging her identity but even that was after the CIA accidentally identified her. The difference between the CIA and her husband was that her husband did so in a public way.

Thus, it appears her husband committed no crime because (1) her identity had been exposed prior to her husbands public exposure and (2) she was not deep undercover when he wrote the article. The law in question makes it even harder for a Government employee to break the law plus her cover was so thuroughly blown Carl Rove could not have broken a law.

BTW, now that this information, that the media has known based on THEIR testimony, is being known to the general publick you will see a shift from certain individuals. Rather than yelling he committed a crime you will see he could have and he "lied" about what he knew so THAT is the reason he should be "fired." Get used to it... the same tactic is used repeatedly.

Rather than reposting check out my thread at... or read the excerpts below.
Page 2 of an Anandtech thread

Here are the basics that support your Dad.


(edited) The link here was broken after posting. It has been reposted at the bottom with instructions on how to find it in case it is moved again.

These are the same media groups that are telling you it was a crime.

Here are highlights:
Page 4 "the cirumstances necessary to prove that crime seem not to be present here, and they should be carefully examined before contempt sanctions are upheld." Specifically, they are saying since no crime appears to have been committed those in the media who have divluged her name should not be held in contempt. They could be held in contempt of court IF a crime has been committed and once knowing a crime had been committed by their source they refuse to divluge their source.

On page 7 it is stated that Valerie was NOT a "deep cover" operative and that she had been residing in Washington - not stationed abroad for a number of years. Thus, being "outted" is not a crime.

Here is the support for your Dad's position.
On page 10 it states that Joseph Wilson wrote an Op-Ed piece fo rthe NY Times where he criticized the administration and detailed his mission and findings and apparently mentioned his wife. Novak contacted the CIA to verify Plame worked for the CIA and the CIA verified her employment. They failed to give him a "serious" request not to publish her name. Thus, once "outted" she couldn't be "outted" again.

A Washington Times http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040722-115439-4033r.htm article states, "Mrs. Plame's identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a Moscow spy, said officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity." It further states, "In a second compromise, officials said a more recent inadvertent disclosure resulted in references to Mrs. Plame in confidential documents sent by the CIA to the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Havana."



edited because the Baker Law link was broken:

Amici Brief 32305.

If the document is moved again search the entire site for Amici Brief 32305. The first entry was
  • Baker & Hostetler LLP | Media Law
    3/23/2005 Amici Brief in Confidential Sources Case on Behalf of 36 Media Organizations
Click on that link and then click on the labeled.
  • "3/23/2005 Amici Brief in Confidential Sources Case on Behalf of 36 Media Organizations"
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Kid, see what I mean

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, I was thinking along those lines. What Joe said/did is actually not even pertinent to the issue at hand. All that matters is that Rove outed an agent.

Now that the facts are being made known the tone will change. The law will not matter. Only destroying another person really matters.

Someday, perhaps, the truth will matter again.

 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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Originally posted by: tss4I don't neccesarily believe that Rove actually committed a "crime" (that's for the special prosecution to decide), but I do hold him up to a more stringent standard of conduct (the lieing about his involovement and the decision to leak this info) as one of the most powerful government officials in the land. He failed to uphold that standrad. We should demand more from our officials. Such a lack of integrity in the name of partisan politics does not reflect well on him or our government.


Read the law as written in a link. Read the facts of the case. You will realize he did not commit a crime.

Read what the media says to the courts then realize that the media isn't reporting what they know to be the truth.

I was completely silent on this issue until yesterday. Yesterday I read the legal document linked in other postings and that made the case clear.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
First off, I am glad to see that TLC has finally admitted that Rove did this intentionally. Secondly, someone please state these four lies for me. Let's debunk that crap that is already out there:
Well it depends on what you define as "this". Did Rove intentionally provide information on Plame's involvement in Wilson's trip? Of course he did. Did he intentionally out her knowing without a doubt she was undercover? You don't know that and neither does anyone else.

1. Wilson's wife sent him. False. She made one statement that could have been construed as him being a possibility for the trip based on his experience and relationships already established with leaders of Niger. She did not have the authority to make the decision.
Wilson's wife pimped her husband for the trip. Wilson claimed that his wife was not involved. That's BS. She was heavily involved and without a doubt pimped him for the trip.

2. Wilson lied about Cheney sending him. False. Wilson said that he was asked to go by the CIA on a request from Cheney's office. I would like to see a transcript of the meeting where he is asked to go by someone in this forum that was present who can prove that the CIA did not state that it was Cheney's office asking for this expedition to be made.
I'd like to see you present a transcript of the metting that shows Cheney did send him.

Asking for the unattainable as proof, when you know damn well it's unattainable, is a highly dishonest tactic.

3. Plame wasn't undercover anymore. False. Her status was still listed as CLASSIFIED. Why the hell do you think that there is an investigation in the first place!!!
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

4. Karl Rove never knew that Valerie Plame was covert. He could end speculation of this by simply stating it under oath. Do you think that he did that yet?
Inconsequential query.

5. It's no big deal anyway. Why are we in Iraq if our national security isn't a big deal? This leak was an intentional attack to try to discredit Joe Wilson. It, at the same time, compromised national security by giving up the identity of a classified agent, disclosed the name of a CIA front company and has cost millions of dollars in taxpayer money be wasted on said front.
Wilson's leak was an intentional attack trying to discredit Bush by using lies and falsehoods. You're so glad to see me admit that Rove did his part intentionally. Well I'm happy to admit it because I'm honest about what's going on here. So when are you going to be honest and admit what Wilson did, instead of continually apologizing for his actions? A leak is a leak, and you are demonstrating your partisan bias by only recognizing and focusing on one leak in this case.

5. The Senate Intelligence Committee proved him wrong. False. The part of the bi-partisan committee's report that the right wing smear machine is referring to is a 3 page addendum by Senators Pat Roberts, Kit Bond and Orrin Hatch. Do you see any Dems listed there? The addendum was included with the findings report with objections by the Dems on the committee.
Now try you to discredit the findings of a bi-partisan commission by making wild and speculative claims. How gauche.

I would like to give you righties a homework assignment. Read and try to debunk any lies or false statements in Joe Wilson's six page response to that addendum.

You can find it here at the bottom half of the page.
I don't trust what Wilson claims anymore than you trust what Rove or his lawyer says.


 

BDawg

Lifer
Oct 31, 2000
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I don't trust what Wilson claims anymore than you trust what Rove or his lawyer says.

Wait... so you think that Saddam *was* trying to buy yellow cake uranium from Niger even though it's been debunked by more than Joe Wilson?
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BDawg
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
I don't trust what Wilson claims anymore than you trust what Rove or his lawyer says.

Wait... so you think that Saddam *was* trying to buy yellow cake uranium from Niger even though it's been debunked by more than Joe Wilson?
Surely Saddam sent a delegation to Niger to discuss the commercial posibilities of importing Niger's other main exports - cowpeas and onions. :roll:

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Summer Fashions

Anonymous sources are in; anonymous sources are out. It depends on who your source hurts.
by Edward Morrissey
07/20/2005 12:00:00 AM

EARLIER THIS SPRING the journalistic world celebrated the most famous of all anonymous sources, Deep Throat. More than three decades after he inadvertently began the Age of Anonymous Sourcing, Mark Felt became the toast of media circles when he acknowledged his role in Watergate, the scandal that broke the presidency and gave birth to the modern era of investigative journalism.

The media, stung by recent debacles like the Killian memos at CBS and the ignominious departure of Eason Jordan, toasted Felt as a true American hero. Newsweek had just turned an anonymously-sourced and ultimately false story about Koran abuse at Guantanamo Bay into wild Muslim riots that killed 17 people, but reporters suddenly remembered how anonymous sources could help bring out truth and justice and hold the powerful accountable. Kurt Anderson informed us that "Journalism exists to get us closer to all sorts of truth, and anonymous sources are essential to the endeavor. Even now, they provide more social benefit than they extract in moral costs." Woodward himself told the Wall Street Journal that, fearing a "secret government," he thinks the press doesn't make enough use of anonymous sources.

Washington Post columnist David Broder wrote just last month that Mark Felt's nameless assistance to Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein gave Americans a "chance to learn just how perverse were the values that infected the Nixon White House." He scolded Chuck Colson and Pat Buchanan for pointing out that Felt broke the law and claimed that they provide an example of why journalists have to have access to anonymous sourcing:

In these comments, Americans born in the 1970s, '80s and '90s can learn everything they need to know about the dangerous delusions of the Nixon era. The mind-set that created enemies lists, the blind loyalty to a deeply flawed individual, the twisting of historical fact to turn villains into heroes and heroes into villains--they are all there.

And yet, over the past week, we have an example of an anonymous source who warned a reporter about an abuse of power in a secretive government agency, involving an operative who deliberately spread misinformation about intelligence work--and the press has spent their energy castigating him for his efforts. The efforts to blame Karl Rove for the supposed "outing" of Valerie Plame in a Robert Novak column is hypocrisy from the same media that lauded an FBI agent for leaking material to the Washington Post to stop an abuse of power three decades ago.

Last week, Matt Cooper of Time testified that he spoke with Karl Rove on "double super secret background" shortly after an editorial written by Ambassador Joseph Wilson appeared in the New York Times. Wilson wrote that he had been sent to Niger based on a request from Vice President Dick Cheney to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein had attempted to purchase uranium, banned in the sanctions placed on Iraq after the Gulf War. Attempts by Saddam to acquire nuclear material would suggest that Saddam planned on rebuilding his WMD programs. Wilson claimed in his editorial that he had found no evidence of such an effort and that President George W. Bush had lied in his State of the Union speech by claiming Saddam had tried to buy the material.

Cooper called Rove--not the other way around--days after its publication, and after discussing an unrelated issue, asked him about the Wilson report. After ensuring that the conversation would remain confidential, Rove warned Cooper not to let his magazine get "too far out on Wilson." He told the reporter that Wilson, despite his claims, did not get authorization for the Niger trip from Cheney or CIA Director George Tenet, but instead got the assignment from his wife, who "apparently worked at the agency on WMD."

As it turns out, Rove gave Cooper a good tip. Not only did Wilson misrepresent the nature of his selection for the Niger mission, he lied about what he found there, as the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence later determined:

[Wilson's] intelligence report indicated that former Nigerien Prime Minister Ibrahim Mayaki was unaware of any contracts that had been signed between Niger and any rogue states for the sale of yellowcake while he was Prime Minister (1997-1999) or Foreign Minister (1996-1997). Mayaki said that if there had been any such contract during his tenure, he would have been aware of it. Mayaki said, however, that in June 1999,(REDACTED) businessman, approached him and insisted that Mayaki meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations" between Niger and Iraq. The intelligence report said that Mayaki interpreted "expanding commercial relations" to mean that the delegation wanted to discuss uranium yellowcake sales. The intelligence report also said that "although the meeting took place, Mayaki let the matter drop due to the UN sanctions on Iraq."

Mayaki did not need telepathy to make this deduction. The CIA factbook shows that Niger has four exports: livestock, cowpeas, onions, and uranium. It takes a great deal of imagination and a certain degree of obtuseness to believe that Saddam Hussein would send a secret, back-channel negotiating team to get his hands on Nigerien cowpeas.

Wilson also repeatedly insisted that his wife had nothing to do with getting the Nigerien mission, but the SSCI found that Valerie Plame had verbally requested Wilson for the assignment on multiple occasions and had even written a memorandum formally submitting his name for consideration. Plame even acted as hostess for the meetings between the agency and her husband.

Nor was this the last of Wilson's prevarications. He later admitted to the SSCI that he leaked information about his report prior to his July 2003 editorial to Walter Pincus at the Washington Post (and later admitted to doing the same with Nicholas Kristof at the New York Times). The SSCI found that Wilson had not been truthful with Pincus, either:


The former ambassador also told Committee staff that he was the source of a Washington Post article ("CIA Did Not Share Doubt on Iraq Data; Bush Used Report of Uranium Bid," June 12, 2003) which said, "among the Envoy's conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because the dates were wrong and the names were wrong." Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the "dates were wrong and the names were wrong" when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports. The former ambassador said that he may have "misspoken" to the reporter when he said he concluded the documents were "forged." He also said he may have become confused about his own recollection after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported in March 2003 that the names and dates on the documents were not correct and may have thought he had seen the names himself. The former ambassador reiterated that he had been able to collect the names of the government officials which should have been on the documents.

SO IN SUM: In July 2003, a rogue CIA operative, hired by his analyst wife at the agency, was leaking false information about war intelligence to national newspapers. When that didn't raise enough eyebrows, he went public, misrepresenting his findings and the nature of his selection for the assignment. Having a CIA operative suddenly take political potshots at the administration called into question whether the White House had lied about intelligence or the ambassador was telling the entire truth himself. Cooper went to his best sources to find the answer to the question, and he got the right answer.

Sounds just like Watergate, except in this case, the White House told the truth while low-level elements at the CIA appear to have twisted intelligence reports into lies to undermine the government--a clear abuse of their power and position. An anonymous source had once again proven its value . . . right?

NOT EXACTLY. Suddenly, the media seemed to have acquired an allergy to nameless sources within administrations, guiding reporters to the truth. The New York Times, whose reporter sits in jail for refusing to talk about her sources, runs story after story about Rove while continually mischaracterizing Wilson's track record. They now also claim that Wilson's lies and misrepresentations--primarily in their own op-ed section--have nothing to do with Rove's whistle blowing. "In fact," their July 19 editorial states, "Mr. Wilson had excellent credentials for the mission, and the entire Niger story had already been pretty thoroughly debunked by the time Mr. Cooper and Mr. Rove spoke." As the SSCI report clearly shows, it hadn't.

And what does David Broder have to say? After all, just a few weeks ago, he defended the use of anonymous sourcing in Watergate to help reporters determine the path to truth. Surely Broder sees the service that Rove performed. Or perhaps not:

The obvious intent of the leak--and of the column, which ran in The Post and other newspapers--was to discredit her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, who had just published an op-ed article in the New York Times challenging a presidential claim that Saddam Hussein had tried to purchase nuclear material in Niger.

Wilson had been sent to Niger to see if that had been attempted. He concluded that it had not--knocking one more hole in the administration case that Hussein was hiding weapons of mass destruction. By exposing his wife's supposed role in sending Wilson on that mission, the White House was trying to link his finding to a well-publicized bureaucratic war in which elements of the CIA were doing all they could to undercut the case for going to war with Iraq. . . .

The only lesson I can draw is that reporters ought to be damned careful about accepting unattributed information. For every "Deep Throat," there are multiple Chalabis and Roves.

Anonymous sourcing seems to have gone out of style faster than a long hemline at a summer fashion show in Paris. Six weeks after pillorying the critics of Woodward and Bernstein for their use of an anonymous source who abused his power to leak information to the Post, Broder saves up his contempt for the man who attempted to tip off the press that Wilson needed more investigation. Broder also appears not to have read the committee report--a bipartisan report that contradicts Broder's assertions of Wilson's performance in almost every detail.

The media has made their position clear: Not all anonymous sources are created equal. Those who discredit Republican presidents, like Mark Felt and Joe Wilson, get celebrity treatment and the best rhetorical defenses. Others can expect contempt and ridicule.
Thank goodness at least some in the media see the hypocrisy of the left for what it is in this matter.


 

ajf3

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 2000
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Joe Wilson... who's that?

You must've missed the memo - all libs are supposed to move on in order to undermine the new SC justice nomination ;)
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

You have a problem with your reasoning on that statement.

It was the CIA who requested the investigation.

Do you think the CIA would not want an investigation if she was just "undercover"?

No they want an investigation because there was a law that was broken and they want to know who did it. It does not matter if she was "undercover" or a "covert agent" there was a law broken and the CIA wants it fixed.

Finally, in October the CIA referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation,

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

You have a problem with your reasoning on that statement.

It was the CIA who requested the investigation.

Do you think the CIA would not want an investigation if she was just "undercover"?

No they want an investigation because there was a law that was broken and they want to know who did it. It does not matter if she was "undercover" or a "covert agent" there was a law broken and the CIA wants it fixed.

Finally, in October the CIA referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation,
Do tell? So exactly which law applies for divulging her "undercover" status?

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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KidViciou$ -- Your dad is either horribly uninformed about the facts, or he is intentionally self-deluded to avoid admitting that, regardless of his personal political and philisophical choices, the Bush administration is a corrupt betrayal of the principles on which this nation was built.

If it is the latter, understand that it is hard to admit that the guy you voted for is not what he appeared to be, but the facts are there for anyone who is willing to look at them. Personally, I don't understand how any honest person who considers him/herself to be "conservative" can tolerate the wat the Bushwhackos have abused the Constitution and the trust of all American citizens. :|
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Surely Saddam sent a delegation to Niger to discuss the commercial posibilities of importing Niger's other main exports - cowpeas and onions. :roll:
The documents suggesting that Saddam sent anyone to Niger looking for yellow cake have been debunked as fraudulant by the CIA, British intelligence and other agencies. The odds that this really happened are about the same as the odds that Saddam was the one who sent Joe Wilson to Niger to check it out. :roll:
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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You guys are all wrong.. It's Judith Miller NYT reporter who will be spending many a year in prison... she told Rove who was who..
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: Harvey
KidViciou$ -- Your dad is either horribly uninformed about the facts, or he is intentionally self-deluded to avoid admitting that, regardless of his personal political and philisophical choices, the Bush administration is a corrupt betrayal of the principles on which this nation was built.

If it is the latter, understand that it is hard to admit that the guy you voted for is not what he appeared to be, but the facts are there for anyone who is willing to look at them. Personally, I don't understand how any honest person who considers him/herself to be "conservative" can tolerate the wat the Bushwhackos have abused the Constitution and the trust of all American citizens. :|
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Surely Saddam sent a delegation to Niger to discuss the commercial posibilities of importing Niger's other main exports - cowpeas and onions. :roll:
The documents suggesting that Saddam sent anyone to Niger looking for yellow cake have been debunked as fraudulant by the CIA, British intelligence and other agencies. The odds that this really happened are about the same as the odds that Saddam was the one who sent Joe Wilson to Niger to check it out. :roll:
Still can't read very well, eh Harvey?

The intelligence report indicated that former Nigerien Prime Minister Ibrahim Mayaki was unaware of any contracts that had been signed between Niger and any rogue states for the sale of yellowcake while he was Prime Minister (1997-1999) or Foreign Minister (1996-1997). Mayaki said that if there had been any such contract during his tenure, he would have been aware of it. Mayaki said, however, that in June 1999,( ) businessman, approached him and insisted that Mayaki meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss "expanding commercial relations" between Niger and Iraq. The intelligence report said that Mayaki interpreted "expanding commercial relations" to mean that the delegation wanted to discuss uranium yellowcake sales. The intelligence report also said that "although the meeting took place, Mayaki let the matter drop due to the UN sanctions on Iraq."
That's from Wilson's own report to the CIA.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Got a link to that, TLC? Something tells me you're leaving out some important context. Call it a hunch given your partisan history.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Thank goodness at least some in the media see the hypocrisy of the left for what it is in this matter.
So you post from the flagship of the PNAC?


:cookie:
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
Got a link to that, TLC? Something tells me you're leaving out some important context. Call it a hunch given your partisan history.
Good lord, talk about PBK and coming from the master of ommission himself. :roll:

The link and quote was already provided in the article that you attempt to dismiss with a wawve of your hand. And it's also directly from the SCI report, but I'll repost it for those who want to ignore those kind of things:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/li...004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter2-b.htm
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

You have a problem with your reasoning on that statement.

It was the CIA who requested the investigation.

Do you think the CIA would not want an investigation if she was just "undercover"?

No they want an investigation because there was a law that was broken and they want to know who did it. It does not matter if she was "undercover" or a "covert agent" there was a law broken and the CIA wants it fixed.

Finally, in October the CIA referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation,
Do tell? So exactly which law applies for divulging her "undercover" status?

My point is you do not know for sure when her "covert" status changed to "undercover" status.

You are the one who is saying she is "undercover" if she was undercover then why is the CIA asking for the investigation? Since it is not a crime then why are they asking for it.

You do not understand it is not the Dems or the Reps asking for the investigation it is the CIA. This is not a partisan matter.

My question to you is why is the CIA asking for an investigation if no crime was committed? Or are they just pissed off ?



 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
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Originally posted by: irwincur
Actually, it would not be out of the question that Wilson was the one to out his wife. He did talk to the NYT before his trip, and he did have a prepared anti-Bush editorial for his post trip. Never mind the fact that he lied four times in the editorial, and once again four more times to Congress.

There are some in DC that suspect that the journalist that is currently still in jail holds the key. It was either her, or him that 'blew the cover'.

Whatever the case, neither of them would have broken the law, so it is not a big deal. If I was Wilson I would be more concerned with the lies that I told Congress. Even then, they have a pretty lax policy.

Wilson lied to Congress, not Bush and company? LOL, you guys are great.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

You have a problem with your reasoning on that statement.

It was the CIA who requested the investigation.

Do you think the CIA would not want an investigation if she was just "undercover"?

No they want an investigation because there was a law that was broken and they want to know who did it. It does not matter if she was "undercover" or a "covert agent" there was a law broken and the CIA wants it fixed.

Finally, in October the CIA referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation,
Do tell? So exactly which law applies for divulging her "undercover" status?

My point is you do not know for sure when her "covert" status changed to "undercover" status.

You are the one who is saying she is "undercover" if she was undercover then why is the CIA asking for the investigation? Since it is not a crime then why are they asking for it.

You do not understand it is not the Dems or the Reps asking for the investigation it is the CIA. This is not a partisan matter.

My question to you is why is the CIA asking for an investigation if no crime was committed? Or are they just pissed off ?
You seem to have a belief that there no partisanship exists within the CIA. Were they just pissed off? I wouldn't discount that possibility at all.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Got a link to that, TLC? Something tells me you're leaving out some important context. Call it a hunch given your partisan history.
Good lord, talk about PBK and coming from the master of ommission himself. :roll:

The link and quote was already provided in the article that you attempt to dismiss with a wawve of your hand. And it's also directly from the SCI report, but I'll repost it for those who want to ignore those kind of things:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/li...004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter2-b.htm
Well...lookee here:
(U) In an interview with Committee staff, the former ambassador was able to provide more information about the meeting between former Prime Minister Mayaki and the Iraqi delegation. The former ambassador said that Mayaki did meet with the Iraqi delegation but never discussed what was meant by "expanding commercial relations."The former ambassador said that because Mayaki was wary of discussing any trade issues with a country under United Nations (UN) sanctions, he made a successful effort to steer the conversation away from a discussion of trade with the Iraqi delegation.
 

outriding

Diamond Member
Feb 20, 2002
4,519
3,953
136
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: outriding
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Once again you are conflating "undercover" and "covert agent" to create confusion and muddle the issue within the scope of the law. Nor have I've heard anyone claim that Plame wasn't "undercover" so you're firing blanks on that assertion as well.

You have a problem with your reasoning on that statement.

It was the CIA who requested the investigation.

Do you think the CIA would not want an investigation if she was just "undercover"?

No they want an investigation because there was a law that was broken and they want to know who did it. It does not matter if she was "undercover" or a "covert agent" there was a law broken and the CIA wants it fixed.

Finally, in October the CIA referred the matter to the Department of Justice for investigation,
Do tell? So exactly which law applies for divulging her "undercover" status?

My point is you do not know for sure when her "covert" status changed to "undercover" status.

You are the one who is saying she is "undercover" if she was undercover then why is the CIA asking for the investigation? Since it is not a crime then why are they asking for it.

You do not understand it is not the Dems or the Reps asking for the investigation it is the CIA. This is not a partisan matter.

My question to you is why is the CIA asking for an investigation if no crime was committed? Or are they just pissed off ?
You seem to have a belief that there no partisanship exists within the CIA. Were they just pissed off? I wouldn't discount that possibility at all.

Do you honestly think that the CIA will go so far as to push for an investigation if it was totally baseless ?

If you answer yes list other times the CIA has requested baseless investigatioins.

I ask this because you will need to establish a pattern within the CIA. Now if there is a pattern then you will have good reason to dismiss this so quickly. I do not see a pattern.