So how many Android tablet flops and disasters will it take?

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Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,835
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I seriously do not understand this mentality. Teh device either fits your requirement or it doesn't. Wether it's winning in market share or not has nothing to do with it.

QFT. When I buy something I am going with whatever suits me best, I don't care if all of the sheep picked something else.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
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I seriously do not understand this mentality. Teh device either fits your requirement or it doesn't. Wether it's winning in market share or not has nothing to do with it.

If a product is not popular, there won't be as much third party accessories and support. Even though its nice to be able to buy cases and such, the real issue (for non-Apple devices) is the third party support. Considering the fact that the only reason some Android devices get OS updates is due to third party ROMs then the more popular the device is than the greater the chance it will get that new OS you want.

For example, consider the Nook Color vs the First Gen Samsung Galaxy Tab vs other cheap tablets. The Nook Color, thanks to a popularity rooted in its cheaper price, already has semi-mature Honeycomb builds and Gingerbread builds which the Galaxy tab lack. Yet the support the Galaxy tab gets is WAY better than your random cheap tablet because none of them are popular enough to create a developer community.
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
If a product is not popular, there won't be as much third party accessories and support. Even though its nice to be able to buy cases and such, the real issue (for non-Apple devices) is the third party support. Considering the fact that the only reason some Android devices get OS updates is due to third party ROMs then the more popular the device is than the greater the chance it will get that new OS you want.

For example, consider the Nook Color vs the First Gen Samsung Galaxy Tab vs other cheap tablets. The Nook Color, thanks to a popularity rooted in its cheaper price, already has semi-mature Honeycomb builds and Gingerbread builds which the Galaxy tab lack. Yet the support the Galaxy tab gets is WAY better than your random cheap tablet because none of them are popular enough to create a developer community.

With all due respect, that's a geek-centric view and not one that Avg. Joe should need to care about.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
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Well there really is, you have to plug them in for any backup syncing. Hopefully Apple changes this in iOS5 as it's one of the big things that needs changing. Once you've had a WebOS or Android phone, being able to sync any where at any time out of the box is awesome, needing to plug a phone in to sync your phone just feel so last century.

Well, note that I wrote iPad. You wouldn't be storing your address book on your iPad for many reasons, and chances are you would have a dedicated contact management app that syncs to its own cloud, so backing up with iTunes only backs up your settings and apps for the most part.

Unless you miss your "heavily customized" experience, backing up is just a waste of time on the iPad. It's only an extra caution measure when flashing a new firmware update, but even that shouldn't cause any major problem.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
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The new samsung tablet is looking really good right now along with the playbook. I think those two tablets will give the ipad2 some competition. The XOOM has been kind of dissapointing.

The only problem I see with the samsung is that it'll probably be laggy and the playbook is a bit small for my tastes. Then the iPad 2 doesn't have flash, so I guess theres always something missing.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
The new samsung tablet is looking really good right now along with the playbook. I think those two tablets will give the ipad2 some competition. The XOOM has been kind of dissapointing.

The only problem I see with the samsung is that it'll probably be laggy and the playbook is a bit small for my tastes. Then the iPad 2 doesn't have flash, so I guess theres always something missing.

The Samsung Galaxy phones sold extremely well so I could see the newer and hopefully better Samsung tablets selling well.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
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It all comes down to a matter of preference, some people are already in the Apple ecosystem so they're going to get the iPad. Then there's people with Android phones so they're going to want to get an Android tablet.

after a month with an android phone there is no way i'd buy an android tablet. it's not bad, but not as good as iOS/app store
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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after a month with an android phone there is no way i'd buy an android tablet. it's not bad, but not as good as iOS/app store

For me its the opposite. After years of owning iPhones I didn't want an iPad. Best thing about my little Nook Color is that after you install some Market programs the damn thing turns into a stand alone device- no need for a computer to update it or hack on it. It can hack on itself.

Android can provide an experience much more open and computer like than iOS.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
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For me its the opposite. After years of owning iPhones I didn't want an iPad. Best thing about my little Nook Color is that after you install some Market programs the damn thing turns into a stand alone device- no need for a computer to update it or hack on it. It can hack on itself.

Android can provide an experience much more open and computer like than iOS.

The same argument holds for iOS as well. After you have jailbroken an iOS device, arguably you won't need a computer for most of the reasons you would connect it before.

I find it really weird that people who preach about how awesome an Android device is after rooting always argues that iOS sucks because of the tethering factor without considering jailbreak at all.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
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The same argument holds for iOS as well. After you have jailbroken an iOS device, arguably you won't need a computer for most of the reasons you would connect it before.

I find it really weird that people who preach about how awesome an Android device is after rooting always argues that iOS sucks because of the tethering factor without considering jailbreak at all.

Three major differences I have found:

1. True an iOS jailbroken device can do most things (all?) an Android device can do. But once you root an Android device all the fun programs are in the primary Android market while a jailbroken device depends on a third party app market that doesn't have the same internal quality (I have had Cydia fail on updates more than once).

2. My Nook Color can update itself with new ROMs, while any Jailbroken iOS device requires you to hook it to a computer to update it, then use a computer to re-Jailbreak it IF a jailbreak is available for that OS version. If you have something that is not jailbroken (iPad2) you have to do completely without. Which leads to:

3. Many of the things I like to do (such as playing emulators) don't require rooting on Android, but do require jailbreaking on iOS.

Honestly I use both types of devices and I am not a fanboy either way. iOS is more responsive, is easier to type in (IMHO), has more and higher quality apps. I don't think I will consider an Android phone soon after my Nook Color, as when I need something in a pinch (aka looking up something on my phone) I want it as responsive as possible.

With that said, to me Tablets are not huge phones- I see them to be eventual replacements for most things people use a laptop for. For me that means the closer something is to a traditional desktop OS (as far as flexibility) the closer it gets to replacing other machines.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
after a month with an android phone there is no way i'd buy an android tablet. it's not bad, but not as good as iOS/app store

It`s just whatever people personally prefer, Android does some things great and some not so great as does iOS. You just need to weigh the pro`s and cons of both to see what you prefer
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
0
It`s just whatever people personally prefer, Android does some things great and some not so great as does iOS. You just need to weigh the pro`s and cons of both to see what you prefer

Exactly. For me personally I prefer the polished responsive UI of iOS, so thats what I chose. Even if it meant giving up some freedom of how I want to customize it. Other people who don't feel that way obviously go for Android.

I do make monthly visits to bestbuy to test run newly released Android devices and I love everything about it hardware wise (ie large screen), but I can't get myself to like Android OS. The OS always feels unfinished to me.
 

alent1234

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2002
3,915
0
0
android is good for a phone because with the widgets i can just glance at them to get the latest weather or whatever. with my iphone i used to flip through apps and TWC app was always laggy. and you can get android phones cheap unless you want the latest dual core or LTE or whatever that i don't care about

tablet pricing structure is different and iOS is just better. my ipad 2 with less RAM than my HTC Inspire is more responsive and has much better battery life
 

ChAoTiCpInOy

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2006
6,442
1
81
It`s just whatever people personally prefer, Android does some things great and some not so great as does iOS. You just need to weigh the pro`s and cons of both to see what you prefer

If we people would just understand this, we wouldn't have as many flame wars.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
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Three major differences I have found:

1. True an iOS jailbroken device can do most things (all?) an Android device can do. But once you root an Android device all the fun programs are in the primary Android market while a jailbroken device depends on a third party app market that doesn't have the same internal quality (I have had Cydia fail on updates more than once).

2. My Nook Color can update itself with new ROMs, while any Jailbroken iOS device requires you to hook it to a computer to update it, then use a computer to re-Jailbreak it IF a jailbreak is available for that OS version. If you have something that is not jailbroken (iPad2) you have to do completely without. Which leads to:

3. Many of the things I like to do (such as playing emulators) don't require rooting on Android, but do require jailbreaking on iOS.

Honestly I use both types of devices and I am not a fanboy either way. iOS is more responsive, is easier to type in (IMHO), has more and higher quality apps. I don't think I will consider an Android phone soon after my Nook Color, as when I need something in a pinch (aka looking up something on my phone) I want it as responsive as possible.

With that said, to me Tablets are not huge phones- I see them to be eventual replacements for most things people use a laptop for. For me that means the closer something is to a traditional desktop OS (as far as flexibility) the closer it gets to replacing other machines.

1) There is more than just Cydia is as much as I can say. You haven't looked deep enough.

2) Technically, you don't need to update if you don't really need or want a new feature, right? And it's not like updates come out every month. On Android, you flash one 2.2 (or 2.3) ROM after the next, but what exactly is the major difference if not to fix a silly bug? Nothing. I have an Android phone so I know exactly what it is. I have been flashing 2.2.1 ROM for the past... 6 months. Nothing major has changed. But the fact that you need to flash a new ROM to change the interface in Android is annoying.

3) Indeed, but I don't suppose you can just run emulators on your Nook without rooting? And some prefer older versions of an emulator, like PSX4Droid 1.7 (not v2). That means some have to resort to side-loading since that version is not available on the Market. And that means... rooting for some phones since stock phones sometimes don't allow side-loading.

Honestly, I use both platforms, but just the inverse of what you are doing. Personally, I have used Android far more than iOS, so when it comes to Android cons, I am much more aggressive, but that doesn't mean I draw everything out of thin air.

The way I see it, I don't believe tablets will replace PC any time soon. It will happen, but the main goal for tablets right now shouldn't be trying to replace PC. It's like trying to break a castle with a snowball. It just doesn't work that way. No matter how much you want it to.

I think tablets have a long way to go before they can replace PC, and we most likely won't see it this year. Or the year after. Not until you start seeing serious investments in software. As they are right now, tablets are little less than web browsing and email devices. But in that regards, I feel the iPad is ahead of the competition because it has far more applications that can aid in productivity.

And if I'm gaming, I would like to play newer games more than nostalgic titles in emulators. I still have the original consoles and systems so I can just use them instead. Or I can get on my PC, which offers a far better emulation experience than tablets ever will. I'm just not big on touchscreen controls to play Marvel vs Capcom.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Looks like tablet prices are starting to fall. VZW is moving original iPads for $300 already. Gonna give it till end of year, see what the Android tablet field is like.
 

smartpatrol

Senior member
Mar 8, 2006
870
0
0
The way I see it, I don't believe tablets will replace PC any time soon. It will happen, but the main goal for tablets right now shouldn't be trying to replace PC. It's like trying to break a castle with a snowball. It just doesn't work that way. No matter how much you want it to.

I think the biggest thing holding tablets back now is the lack of digitizer + stylus input. You can't use them for sketching/graphic design, and you can't use them for taking notes. You know. . . probably the only two things that tablets do better than a real PC.

Right now they are large-screen smartphones at best, and expensive toys at worst. IMO they are selling based mainly on their novelty & bling factors, not based on how useful they are.
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
I think the biggest thing holding tablets back now is the lack of digitizer + stylus input. You can't use them for sketching/graphic design, and you can't use them for taking notes. You know. . . probably the only two things that tablets do better than a real PC.

Right now they are large-screen smartphones at best, and expensive toys at worst. IMO they are selling based mainly on their novelty & bling factors, not based on how useful they are.

I think you are gravely mistaken. The lack of stylus is not a grave one. In fact, there are styli for capacitive touch screens that work really well on capacitive tablets if you are looking for that. Many people have sketched, nay, drawn using both stylus and their fingers on the iPad for a long while now.

Here's a more recent piece:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWiLV-kIalY

Of anything the iPad lacks, a digitizer + stylus is not among the big list.

Most people who complain about the lack of digitizer and stylus, if you'll excuse me, are usually not very good at drawing themselves, so they just complain even if they've never tried it themselves.

Lack of digitizer for taking notes I can understand, but at the same time, you can never take notes as fast on a tablet as with pen and paper because there is still the delay between your touch and the time the screen displays something. In fact, even with a Wacom Cintiq connected to the fastest PC on the market, you still can't write notes as fast as with pen and paper.
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
7,419
22
81
Right now they are large-screen smartphones at best, and expensive toys at worst. IMO they are selling based mainly on their novelty & bling factors, not based on how useful they are.

I tend to use my tablet as much as I use my desktop when I'm at home, and I use it definitely more than our laptop when I'm travelling. Instant-on, small, light and portable with a ridiculously long battery life. You can think that people don't buy them because they aren't useful - and maybe you are right - but at least for me, I think it's extremely useful to have a tablet... when I come home for lunch and I want to read the latest news, I don't carry my sandwich up to my desktop computer, I don't unplug the laptop from the office and carry it to the kitchen, I reach over and grab my tablet and surf away.
 

Arp_

Junior Member
Mar 26, 2011
15
0
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In fact, there are styli for capacitive touch screens that work really well on capacitive tablets if you are looking for that.
No, there are not.
They are not pressure sensitive and you cannot rest your palm on the screen. You can't just draw on capacitive tablet with such stylus, you either have to put it on special stand like the guy in the video does or hold stylus in a very uncomfortable way. I tried one of those styluses, and I could manage about 1 or 2 minutes before pain appeared in my hand. And the precision is not very good, you cannot draw any fine details, or write properly.

Lack of digitizer for taking notes I can understand, but at the same time, you can never take notes as fast on a tablet as with pen and paper because there is still the delay between your touch and the time the screen displays something. In fact, even with a Wacom Cintiq connected to the fastest PC on the market, you still can't write notes as fast as with pen and paper.
Well, I tested some very cheap Asus EEE Pc transformer laptop/tablet in a store, and I was able to write perfectly fine on it. So it's not really a problem, and even if pen&paper is slightly faster, I've never been in a situation when I had to write so fast that digitizer would limit me in some way. For me, convenience of taking and storing all notes on one device is much more important than insignificant speed advantage.
Lack of pen input is the only reason I haven't bought a tablet yet.
 
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runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
Most artists don't need pressure sensitivity to really put something good out.

You probably didn't get to try a Pogo Stick Stylus, which is the most accurate capacitive stylus out there on the market.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgTcyjzXfTg

Pressure sensitivity can be simulated and palm/finger/human interaction can be rejected, but no app developer is putting it to practice. Reason? None of those features are reallly necessary for good artworks to be made. They are more for demonstration and technical purpose.

However, some apps on the iPad do feature palm rejection to a good extent that they don't become hard to manage. Pen Ultimate is a good example.

If you don't have to write so fast, what is holding you back from just simply taking notes with the keyboard instead?
 

runawayprisoner

Platinum Member
Apr 2, 2008
2,496
0
76
I wouldn't be so sure about that. You can use a separate app to write formulas and draw graphs, do a screen capture, then re-insert them into your notes. It's cleaner and more professional that way than scribbling gibberish.

That's what I do in my classes, because I am a perfectionist freak. But also because the graphs drawn using a dedicated app are always more accurate than those drawn using my own hands.

Alternatively, use Wolfram Alfa to get results from otherwise complex formulas.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I wouldn't be so sure about that. You can use a separate app to write formulas and draw graphs, do a screen capture, then re-insert them into your notes. It's cleaner and more professional that way than scribbling gibberish.

That's what I do in my classes, because I am a perfectionist freak. But also because the graphs drawn using a dedicated app are always more accurate than those drawn using my own hands.

Alternatively, use Wolfram Alfa to get results from otherwise complex formulas.

I am sure a professor is going to pause the lecture while you do all that.