• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

So how many Android tablet flops and disasters will it take?

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
JD50 said:
I've tried so many times, these guys don't understand different business models. If a company doesn't do EXACTLY what Apple does then they're obviously a failure.
Click to expand...

They're two different business models. So then it's meaningless to compare marketshare which you guys keep touting about Android beating iOS. If Apple's strategy is to create the best goddamn phone ever running iOS where Android's strategy is to flood the market with cheap handsets, then marketshare only shows how well Android's doing.

The true metric to measure Apple's success is how successful are individual handsets then.

Which makes every comparison MEANINGLESS.

But that's not the point. In the end the end product matters. Even if Google's strategy is to create an OS where people can build phones off of, you need DECENT phones. We have decent phones. You can't throw shittyass Android phones with monochrome screens out and expect to dominate. So even if your business strategy is different, you still require phones that can fight with the iPhone.

So I think to be fair, the market has tried multiple times to beat the iPhone with some Android phone. We've seen people tout the Droid as something that can finally match the iPhone. We quickly saw that it was outdated by much faster phones. It's taken how many years and we still don't have a true iPhone killer.

Say that it doesn't matter all you want, but it's like the Apple iPod. People threw out competition models, and people here said the Dell DJ or Creative Zen was cheaper. Great, but why did those all flop? The only thing that might have come close was the Zune or Zune HD. But so what? the iPod Touch and Nano still completely dominate. The only segment where companies are competitive in is with mini/budget MP3 players because Apple was dumb and released a stupid Shuffle device and they're obviously not known for low pricing to begin with. At the end of the day the Apple iPod is pretty much THE MP3 player of the market. The iPad is THE tablet of the market.

Granted the phone market is more diverse, but you can say things like iPhone and it gets instant recognition. The only other phone I could think of might be the Samsung Galaxy or the Desire HD?
 
I'm still enjoying watching Apple fanboys make the same arguments that were made against them by Microsoft fanboys just a few years ago.

Edit - That wasn't directed at you DLeRium
 
Last edited:
The problem with all of these new tablets is that they are playing catchup to old Apple tech. Every single one looks to be coming out with a Snapdragon and Adreno GPU which is crap compared to Tegra 2 let alone PowerVR.

So what happens when we get this massive flood of new tablets that are going to try to keep up with the iPad 2 and then six months later Apple releases the iPad 3 which most likely will have a PowerVR 543MP4 and quite possibly the new quad core Cortex A15 which will all debut with the Sony NGP.
 
zerocool84 said:
No, that's pretty much the only problem. Xoom is buggy but that's just one tablet of the many. There will be cheaper tablets coming this year with Honeycomb and we know they'll overtake iPad by next year.
Click to expand...

So you're saying high priced tables will do better with decent software? Android tablets don't even make a dent in what people care about.

Half the reason why Android took off in the US was due to exclusive phones and Apple limiting itself to 1 carrier and having special plans.

50% of people on Android are probably on there because there's no other choice on their carrier. That or because there's some dirt cheap Android handsets out there.
 
I can't see anybody but hardcore geeks choosing an Android tablet over iPad 2 if they have a chance to try both side-by-side. iPad 2 wins in practically every category that average people are going to care about:

- faster/more responsive
- thinner
- far better battery life
- less expensive
- better build quality
- higher quality screen
- simpler UI
- much bigger selection of tablet-optimized apps
- it "just works". . . no dummied-out features, system crashing, etc.

That's not to mention that iPad is already synonymous with tablet computers in the public's mind.

Android managed to pull ahead of iPhone largely because, unless you were willing to switch to AT&T (a carrier legendary for dropped calls and expensive service), an Android phone was the only exciting high-end smartphone you could get.

iPad vs. Honeycomb is going to be a lot more like iPod vs. the countless "me too" media players. In fact, Apple has an even bigger advantage here, because they already have a very aggressive price. Competitors are going to have a VERY hard time creating a $500 tablet that doesn't feel like a cheap piece of junk compared to the iPad 2.

Disclaimer: The last Apple product I bought was an iPod in 2005. I have no intention to buy an iPad 2 or anything else Apple makes.
 
First of all, Apple's iOS is an older platform. As such it was much easier for it to mature. Just one manufacturer, working on it's own hardware with it's own software. On top of that, the iOS needs to work on a very limited number of devices.

Take Apple out of the equation for a minute or all together and focus on Android.

Since it's inception, it had to "convince' the OHA members to embrace it and they did but very slowly and hesitantly, as evident by the lackluster hardware that ran it. The first few phones running Android were "cute".

It took OEM's quite a while to start trusting Android and start real investments, I think the first Droid was the landmark.

Considering how many different OEM's and how many different hardware platforms it was supposed to run on, Android's progress was severely slowed down.

I still don't consider Android a completely mature platform. Even honeycomb needs a revision or two, the phone side probably needs 2.5 or dare I say 2.6 to match the maturity of Apple's platform.

Once Android catches up, than it will be step by step dance or a close race if you will, each platform improving minor things and adding new features with each new version. In case you haven't noticed, Android is still a few leaps forward away from matching Apple toe to toe, both tablet and phone wise.

Once it's mature, Android will probably force Apple to shorten it's refresh cycle down to 6 months, because once Android is mature, Apple can't allow Android's frequent launches to take advantage of new technology innovations for too long. This is crucial, only a mature platform can snatch market share away from another mature platform. That's proof that Android still has ways to go because right now they aren't snatching anything away form apple, the market share increase comes from symbian/nokia disaster, winmo 6.5 death and brand new customers.

Android OEM's are realizing that as long as they throw around bad/cheap phones, they are competing against each other, for expanding the market share it's about fighting WP7 and Apple.

By the time Android matures, the ecosystem will as well, Android's apps must start matching/exceeding the Apps store. It's up to Google to pull off this very difficult task but if anyone can do it, Google can.
 
I seriously doubt Apple will go to a 6 month refresh.

The Android flavor of the month isn't what people want, and it pisses them off to have their new, expensive device outdated every 30 days while they're locked into a 24 month contract.

It's a serious problem with Android phones, the manufacturers are trying to one up each other, and their platforms become a commodity.

I've heard quite a few people upset about their iPad Christmas present being outdated already... Apple likely chose the launch date so it could introduce the iPad in the US, do a worldwide rollout, and be able to ramp up for Christmas sales after the production lines are running smoothly.

Enthusiasts and the mass market are 2 very different things.
 
Last edited:
JD50 said:
If you understood Google's business model and the differences between an iPhone and the Android operating system then you wouldn't say things like
Click to expand...

Googles business model is to give away Android and make money on the back end.
In retail they call it a loss leader.

Not only is Apple making more money on hardware but they are also making more money on the backed.

125513-profit_share_4q10.jpg


Or should I say DECIMATING the competition on hardware.
 
Last edited:
DLeRium said:
So you're saying high priced tables will do better with decent software? Android tablets don't even make a dent in what people care about.

Half the reason why Android took off in the US was due to exclusive phones and Apple limiting itself to 1 carrier and having special plans.

50% of people on Android are probably on there because there's no other choice on their carrier. That or because there's some dirt cheap Android handsets out there.
Click to expand...

We all know there are going to be tons and tons of cheap Android tablets coming. We already have release dates for many of them. I could say the only reason why people bought iPhone was that people are dumb and just buy whatever they see on tv. Also you do know Android took over iPhone everywhere in the world right? iPhone was exclusive only in one country. I don't know how many times I`ve said this but this is the smartphone race all over again.

When iPhone was #1, you heard people saing that market share shows it`s better. When iPhone was #1, people were saying smoothness is all that matters. Well the market has shown different and what people say here is definitely not what happens in the real world. There`s more than enough room for all these different ways to make handsets and for all the different business models. There is not one that is better than the other whether you guys like to think one is or not.
 
Last edited:
People need to make informed decisions when purchasing a phone and locking in for 24 said months. The solution is definitely not to slow down to 1 model every 2 years.

There are over 115 million post paid cellphone subscribers in the US, majority takes the full discount eligibility into consideration when buying a new phone and they haven't simultaneously signed their contracts either. Early termination fees and subsidy sale model are further complicating things, phones are exclusive to their respective carriers, deterring customers from even considering phones that aren't offer by their current provider and switching carriers for a phone is costly.

Every market is about "one up" each other, the concept is not new.

One thing is certain, the market isn't about to slow down just because few may complain about their devices becoming outdated. The rest of the world is buying at full price, I don't see massive cries and call action law suits because their phones aren't "in" when other models are released.

With the pricing of mass market and enthusiast market converging, everyone wants the best phone and the ball & chain concept of signing away for 24 months leads consumers to think twice before buying.
 
Does anyone even know what a Tega is? Archos? Or... uh... Notion Ink?

Cheaper Android tablets have been around. They have flopped even against the first iPad.

Face it. It's not price. It's the software itself. Android needs more apps, and some way to actually make itself more useful than a device with half a web browser and some Flash capability.
 
runawayprisoner said:
Does anyone even know what a Tega is? Archos? Or... uh... Notion Ink?

Cheaper Android tablets have been around. They have flopped even against the first iPad.

Face it. It's not price. It's the software itself. Android needs more apps, and some way to actually make itself more useful than a device with half a web browser and some Flash capability.
Click to expand...

It's because they didn't have a tablet specific OS. Xoom is super buggy but hopefully the ones coming out will have that bugginess fixed, hopefully. Now that competition is coming we can expect decent Android tablets. Everyone seems to forget that Android has never been about one hardcore device, they've been about flooding the market with cheaper devices and those are coming very soon. We've only seen two decent Android tablets. One just had a skin on a phone OS and was over priced, the other had a good tablet OS but was buggy and overpriced. The list that's come out has prices for newer tablets finally competing on price. I don't know why everyone is calling it game over when the game is barely starting. Playbook, Touchpad, and the rest of the big name tablets have yet to come out and these are only the big names. We can expect cheapy tablets to come out later this year as well. The tablet game is barely getting started.
 
zerocool84 said:
It's because they didn't have a tablet specific OS. Xoom is super buggy but hopefully the ones coming out will have that bugginess fixed, hopefully. Now that competition is coming we can expect decent Android tablets. Everyone seems to forget that Android has never been about one hardcore device, they've been about flooding the market with cheaper devices and those are coming very soon. We've only seen two decent Android tablets. One just had a skin on a phone OS and was over priced, the other had a good tablet OS but was buggy and overpriced. The list that's come out has prices for newer tablets finally competing on price. I don't know why everyone is calling it game over when the game is barely starting. Playbook, Touchpad, and the rest of the big name tablets have yet to come out and these are only the big names. We can expect cheapy tablets to come out later this year as well. The tablet game is barely getting started.
Click to expand...

Because when you introduce yourself years later, there has to be a serious reason for people to jump over.

I say the iPad is probably closer to an iPod than the iPhone. Why? Because the iPhone was severely tied down to the carrier.

Given there are 3G options, but the iPad is now on BOTH Verizon AND AT&T, so that's huge. Furthermore, the iPad is also lumped in a Wifi version. It's not as much a kid's device as the iPod is given the low entry price point. I think a lot of people may see themselves jumping on an iPad Wifi here and this has NOTHING to do with a carrier. Thus, there's no barrier in terms of exclusivity and carrier locks or expensive data plans.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but this is why I see the iPad playing out like the iPod. People were years late coming up with a true iPod challenger. Look how well that went. It's not about coming up with just something that can MATCH the iPod. Every MP3 player that came out was far cheaper than Apple's former $299 price point. However they went nowhere. You could get 30GB for less than 20GB iPod, but people didn't care.

Right now it's sad because we're looking at tablets like we looked at iPhone competitors before. All we want is a device that can at the very minimum MATCH the iPad. We're looking at parity. That's a piss poor low bar to be aiming at. The Xoom maybe did that with the original iPad but iPad 2 just blows it away more. GG. It's not only going to take price but features and other compelling stuff to sway people over. Because as it is now the iPad is THE ONLY tablet on the market essentially. Who the fuck knows what a Xoom is or what a Galaxy Tab is? At least the Android phones had a real chance to establish themselves as the iPhone couldn't reach across all 4 carriers.

I've argued many times over and over that Android adoption in the US was hugely due to the need for an iPhone killer on the other carriers. The fact that the iPhone is only ONE phone is also a huge problem. Phone shopping has always been about a multitude of choices. I don't really know if it will be the same as the phone market with tablets. I highly doubt it.

It's a tough road for Android tablets, and they need to seriously convince the market that they're worth their price.
 
Last edited:
zerocool84 said:
We all know there are going to be tons and tons of cheap Android tablets coming. We already have release dates for many of them.
Click to expand...

You really see this as a good thing? The deluge of cheap, plastic-y, poorly-performing Android tablets will just further boost iPad's reputation as the only tablet worth owning. $500 for an iPad is a pretty damn reasonable price. Competitors are going to have to cut a lot of corners to undercut Apple.

Plus, let's be honest. If your target market consists of "people who just buy the cheapest thing they can find, and don't want to spend a whopping $500 for an iPad", you're going to have a hell of a time trying to turn a profit.

Playbook and Touchpad might have slightly better chances. At least they aren't in a race to the bottom against several other OEMs all producing nearly identical products.
 
iPods are actually dead overall, so going on about how great they are compared to the competition is not a good argument. iPods have been replaced by smart phones by most smart people, which only makes sense. Moreover, many of those smart phones are running Android, so users are getting much more comfortable with that brand and user interface.

There are two major issues which non-Apple tablets needs to address:

1. Price
2. Basic functionality and stability

Beating the iPad is a non-starter, especially given that the competing platforms are nowhere near as mature, stable, and well-designed.

Android is going to mature further, and prices will drop naturally. Apple will not compete on price on the bottom end, so these will end up mostly Android, or something else if Android development continues to drop the ball.
 
smartpatrol said:
You really see this as a good thing? The deluge of cheap, plastic-y, poorly-performing Android tablets will just further boost iPad's reputation as the only tablet worth owning. $500 for an iPad is a pretty damn reasonable price. Competitors are going to have to cut a lot of corners to undercut Apple.

Plus, let's be honest. If your target market consists of "people who just buy the cheapest thing they can find, and don't want to spend a whopping $500 for an iPad", you're going to have a hell of a time trying to turn a profit.

Playbook and Touchpad might have slightly better chances. At least they aren't in a race to the bottom against several other OEMs all producing nearly identical products.
Click to expand...

Yet Android smartphones overtook apple and everyone else as the market leader. And no, the phones don't fall apart, they don't feel cheap, and they perform spectacularly. Eventually android tablets will be cheaper AND high quality while the ipad will still be overpriced.
 
There are probably people out there that are happy with their android phone and are thinking about buying a tablet. They might prefer an android tablet since they already know the operating system and have already invested in paid apps that they can transfer to the tablet.
 
Android is demolishing iPhone in price. That's all there is to it.

Unless you can find an Android phone that is more expensive than a comparable iPhone, I would love to know which one that is.

It's kind of silly now that whenever I read about Android vs iOS these days, everyone says "Android is the market leader" as if that's the only reason why Android is better.

So if next quarter, the iPhone somehow surpasses Android marketshare by, say... 1%, does that mean Android suddenly sucks? Hell no...

It's also not a good indicator for the tablet market because the tablet market is more diverge. It's not just Android vs iOS anymore but RIM, and HP are coming out with their own. Microsoft is also cooking something. It's not the same as the smartphone market where it looks very clear that 8 companies together beat one company. It's each company vs one another now.
 
Last edited:
Patranus said:
Which phone has surpassed the iPhone in terms of sales?
Click to expand...

What does sales have to do with superiority? The average consumer is too dumb to realize Android offers far more features and flexibility than Apple, thus continues to use ball-and-chain Apple products.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top