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So Global warming is a good thing - Pompeo

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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
7,218
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That... doesn't say what you claim it does. Nakedfrog summarized things well. The report doesn't definitively conclude that global warming is triggering the events, but the events are happening -- and it notes that some kinds of events are representative of warming temperatures. Besides, that study also stops at 2010; there's been nearly a whole decade since then.

When you say "they haven't happened," you're not just misstating what that report says -- you're explicitly lying.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
13,616
5,585
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Yes. What does that have to do with the statement that cold weather causes more deaths than warm weather.
FYI there’s an edit button so you can go back to post 10# and remove the “It’s a good thing” since what you really meant to say was “Fewer people die in warmer temps than in colder one”

Which per your link I agree with. But you really should go back and change your post since people are confused that you were just stating an unrelated fact and actually had no point to make.
 
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nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
49,388
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Absolutely. Perhaps you have not studied the basic principle. Replacement rate.
Overall, the total fertility rate for the United States in 2017 was 1,765.5 per 1,000 women, which was 16% below what is considered the level needed for a population to replace itself: 2,100 births per 1,000 women, according to the report.
No, I haven't, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't indicate that all 50 million people of population growth are immigrants, which is the statement I'm finding very hard to believe.
https://cis.org/Report/Record-445-Million-Immigrants-2017
According to this, there are 44.5 million immigrants total, and looking at different numbers I'm coming up with ~24 million immigrants in the last twenty years, which is altogether more believable.
 

nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
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Yes. What does that have to do with the statement that cold weather causes more deaths than warm weather.
I wasn't discussing that at all, our particular argument is the increase in severe weather events that you pretend isn't a thing.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,456
122
106
FYI there’s an edit button so you can go back to post 10# and remove the “It’s a good thing” since what you really meant to say was “Fewer people die in warmer temps than in colder one”

Which per your link I agree with. But you really should go back and change your post since people are confused that you were just stating an unrelated fact and actually had no point to make.
now why would I do that? Isn't this the forum where everyone creates false narratives, strawmen and out of context assertions? Besides, I said warming is better and it is. Cold causes more deaths than warmth, hence warmer is better.

Of course too much warmth is bad as is too much cold. I'll let you decide for yourself what is "too much".
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
12,264
1,986
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now why would I do that? Isn't this the forum where everyone creates false narratives, strawmen and out of context assertions? Besides, I said warming is better and it is. Cold causes more deaths than warmth, hence warmer is better.

Of course too much warmth is bad as is too much cold. I'll let you decide for yourself what is "too much".
Back to this thread and you are still stuck on stupid.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,471
3,944
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There are undoubtedly some good consequences of raising the global temperature a degree or two. What has near zero positive consequences would be run away warming which is what this carbon saturation is supposed to entail.

You're wrong if you think people won't or shouldn't take advantage of a new climate.
If we burn your house it would be wise for us to take what's left including the lumber so we can have more BBQ's.

Great idea!

I would like to see the science behind this "thermostat" people seem to think will kick in at a degree or two for starters.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,662
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No, I haven't, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't indicate that all 50 million people of population growth are immigrants, which is the statement I'm finding very hard to believe.
https://cis.org/Report/Record-445-Million-Immigrants-2017
According to this, there are 44.5 million immigrants total, and looking at different numbers I'm coming up with ~24 million immigrants in the last twenty years, which is altogether more believable.
Births below replacement rate literally means our native population is shrinking. Which is a common issue in developed nations.

I'd be hard pressed to believe, in the face of opposing data, that our population grew by 26 million native births.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
13,616
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now why would I do that? Isn't this the forum where everyone creates false narratives, strawmen and out of context assertions? Besides, I said warming is better and it is. Cold causes more deaths than warmth, hence warmer is better.

Of course too much warmth is bad as is too much cold. I'll let you decide for yourself what is "too much".
This thread is about Pompeo stating global warming being a good thing.

Your statement is about warmth being better than cold. You’ve clarified that your statement should not be assumed to be referring to global warming.

Care to clarify how your post has anything to do with the topic?
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
28,662
2,478
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This thread is about Pompeo stating global warming being a good thing.
Pompeo: Melting sea ice presents 'new opportunities for trade'
Not sure I saw it presented as an argument FOR Global Warming, even though - knowing Republican admins - they probably would reach such a conclusion. It just doesn't seem like they went there on this particular subject. It's a simple proclamation that the Arctic is open and ripe for exploitation. More resources IS a good thing, and the Arctic is going to remain open for business for several generations, if not multiple centuries.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,471
3,944
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There has not been an increase in "severe" weather events.
What we will likely see is greater fluctuations do to increased chaotic nature of a system driven to a higher energy level. So hot summers? Yep. Freezing cold winters? Yep. Stronger storms, fewer storms, more storms? Yep.

The key thing here is that chaotic systems in the proper sense of the term do not allow precise predictions or consistent events but things to tend towards a "space" of likely patterns. Add more energy (heat) and the boundaries of possible/likely occurrences increase. As instability grows so do the adverse consequences as a matter of physical systems.

But we aren't scientific or rational. This is far more than "taking advantage of", it's monetary motivation to maintain and increase energy into the system to be even closer to an irreversible new central tendency with unrelenting and incurable positive feedback.

Climate 102. People in this administrate haven't even figured out what the difference between weather and climate is and I'd bet Trump can't even spell thermodynamics much less make a close guess at what it is and means.
 

dphantom

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2005
4,456
122
106
This thread is about Pompeo stating global warming being a good thing.

Your statement is about warmth being better than cold. You’ve clarified that your statement should not be assumed to be referring to global warming.

Care to clarify how your post has anything to do with the topic?
perhaps your definition of global warming is different.

My statement was that warming is good. I expanded upon the statement that warmth (or heat) kills fewer than cold. And later expanded that warmth to a point was good also.

Then of course all the doomsters come out of the woodwork. :)

it's fun to see everyone's knee jerk reaction to a simple observational statement.

it shows yet again why this forum is not a place for civil debate when posters have to resort to casting personal aspersions on another.

So a final restatement:
I think the Earth is warming since the end of the LIA ie there is global warming
Warmer temps kill fewer people than cold
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,471
3,944
126
Pompeo: Melting sea ice presents 'new opportunities for trade'
Not sure I saw it presented as an argument FOR Global Warming, even though - knowing Republican admins - they probably would reach such a conclusion. It just doesn't seem like they went there on this particular subject. It's a simple proclamation that the Arctic is open and ripe for exploitation. More resources IS a good thing, and the Arctic is going to remain open for business for several generations, if not multiple centuries.
It's horrible on the face of it. It's like dousing your car with gas to gain opportunities to keep yourself warm. Pompeo wants people to make money by getting stuff while suggesting anything good at all because that will vanish in catastrophe and that's impossible for me to overstate. Remember we talked about positive feedback? Permafrost melts releasing methane in vast quantities which in turn increases temperatures which causes more release... and on and on. This is the same thing, very much in how it works.

The total amount of solar energy the earth is defined by an easy equation. Total Solar Energy on Earth = Solar Energy (total) - Energy Reflected - Energy Radiated.

Planets have what is known as albedo, that is the reflectivity of a celestial body surface. The higher the number, the less the planet is heated by this mechanism.

So Pompeo is saying whether he intends to or not that melting the ice which increases heat absorption and in turn decreases infrared radiation is a good thing because someone can make a buck.

Gasoline on the planet is a better metaphor.
 

nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
49,388
2,287
126
Births below replacement rate literally means our native population is shrinking. Which is a common issue in developed nations.

I'd be hard pressed to believe, in the face of opposing data, that our population grew by 26 million native births.
It looks like it hangs out around 4 million births per year.
https://www.infoplease.com/us/births/live-births-and-birth-rates-year
We had 2.7 million deaths in 2016: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
2.6 million in 2014: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/282929.php

I'm not saying we don't have a lot of immigration, just that I find fault with your statement that all of our population growth in the last 20 years is due to immigration, to the tune of 50 million immigrants (especially if we believe that there are a total of 44.5 million immigrants currently, in total).

Just found this one, it's kind of neat: http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-states-population/
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,471
3,944
126
perhaps your definition of global warming is different.

My statement was that warming is good. I expanded upon the statement that warmth (or heat) kills fewer than cold. And later expanded that warmth to a point was good also.

Then of course all the doomsters come out of the woodwork. :)

it's fun to see everyone's knee jerk reaction to a simple observational statement.

it shows yet again why this forum is not a place for civil debate when posters have to resort to casting personal aspersions on another.

So a final restatement:
I think the Earth is warming since the end of the LIA ie there is global warming
Warmer temps kill fewer people than cold
So heat waves aren't dangerous but dropping the temps a few degrees is. Science? Nope.

Sure warming is better than freezing to death. Put on another layer.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
99,999
13,987
136
Yes. What does that have to do with the statement that cold weather causes more deaths than warm weather.
so, you're proud that you made a statement or something? Do you think this event warrants a trophy?
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
13,616
5,585
146
perhaps your definition of global warming is different.

My statement was that warming is good. I expanded upon the statement that warmth (or heat) kills fewer than cold. And later expanded that warmth to a point was good also.

Then of course all the doomsters come out of the woodwork. :)

it's fun to see everyone's knee jerk reaction to a simple observational statement.

it shows yet again why this forum is not a place for civil debate when posters have to resort to casting personal aspersions on another.

So a final restatement:
I think the Earth is warming since the end of the LIA ie there is global warming
Warmer temps kill fewer people than cold
Ok thanks for clearing that up.

Of course while heat waves kill less than extreme cold per your link global warming is not simply a heat wave. It will cause more deaths via heat waves, extreme cold, flooding, more extreme weather events and disruptions in ecology especially in subsistence level areas.

There’s actually quite a lot of doom if we go down the path of trying to maximize fossil fuel company shareholder value but from your simplistic view on climate that’s a future that would be difficult for you to see.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,344
712
126
Pompeo is blissfully ignoring the vast amounts of methane currently frozen in the tundra and undersea. Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. When the arctic warming releases that gas in quantity the sh*t will really hit the fan.

But the way our GOP rulers (not leaders) view the matter, that problem will be in somebody else's financial quarter and it is their goal to maximize short term benefits to get short sighted voters.
 
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