So, does the 7950GX2 count as a single card solution?

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
EIGHT huh? So one 7950GX2 would use 4 then? How so?

First of all, where are the white papers that show and describe that connector being called a "specialized PCI-E connector". Not that it would make a difference. Because, both PCB's utilize ONE PCI-E slot

Sorry, was a typo. I typed eight instead of four. A quad-SLi system uses four PCI-E slots, two on the motherboard and two on the expansion board in a 7950GX2 couplet.

Now I need white papers, do I? So when photographic evidence of a second PCI-E connector and the PCI-E slot it plugs into the second board with is not enough for a fanboy, I need white papers? :roll:

So far, you have used the word fanboy nearly half a dozen times toward me. I have not called you such. I would appreciate it if you could continue this conversation without the name calling BS if you don't mind. And the rolling eyes are really unnecessary.

Talk. Discuss. Calmly and without the flames.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
So far, you have used the word fanboy nearly half a dozen times toward me. I have not called you such. I would appreciate it if you could continue this conversation without the name calling BS if you don't mind. And the rolling eyes are really unnecessary.

Talk. Discuss. Calmly and without the flames.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-spite.html

When you learn how to discuss, we will. So far all you've done is use red-herring and appeals to spite to avoid the issue entirely.

The fact that I am rude has no bearing on my point, you're free to point out exactly how it does if you believe it.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I just figured that I had to ask the question that you don't dare answer. I believe any fallacy would lie there. Since you cannot bring yourself to answer a direct question, I can only assume you have an agenda. Because answering said question correctly, would deflate your entire ensemble of posts, I'm afraid. At any rate, nice try.

I'm sorry, but it is you with the agenda here and I have exposed your red-herring fallacy. I would love you to deny it right now, since it's already posted publicly for all to see.

You are avoiding the issue of one of those boards being an expansion board by bringing up the irrelevent question "how many PCI-E slots on the motherboard does it use?" Your aim is to divert attention from the second PCI-E slot on the expansion board, have me answer the question the way you want me to, and then claim victory while leaving the second PCI-E slot unaddressed.

Therefore I say again; Instead of using a red-herring fallacy, why don't you just accept my answer of "the 7950GX2 uses two PCI-E slots, one being the method by which one of the cards is an expansion card"?

I already know that you won't address this though, you already dismissed photographic evidence of the reference 7950GX2 and demanded I use white papers instead. :roll:

I was always under the impression that expansion boards are purchased separately to "expand" your capabilities. So please tell me how I can buy half of a 7950GX2? I would appreciate it. Then, show me where to buy the expansion board to add on my system later. Thanks again.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I was always under the impression that expansion boards are purchased separately to "expand" your capabilities. So please tell me how I can buy half of a 7950GX2? I would appreciate it. Then, show me where to buy the expansion board to add on my system later. Thanks again.

If Nvidia provided them seperately, how would they use the gimmick of calling it a "single-card solution" which people like you have obviously fallen for? I guess in your world saline, which is used in sterilising equipment and cuts or using contact lenses, is not made up of salt and water.

At this point, by the way, I would just like to clarify why I am making such a big deal about the difference between calling the 7950GX2 a single-card solution and calling it a multi-card solution: -

The reason is not because I have anything against Nvidia, on the contrary, I have owned many Nvidia cards and still own a 6600GT and 6800GT, nor do I have anything against the 7950GX2 either, as I am actually considering purchasing it sometime in the near future as it's an unorthadox solution and offers great bang for the buck (kicking the crap out of two 7900GTs in SLi while costing the same.)

The reason I find this an important point to make, besides it being on-topic of course, is that I simply hate gimmicks, especially when it's a dishonest gimmick. I hate SLi and Crossfire as I consider them gimmicks, I hate multi-GPU cards as I consider them gimmicks, but what I hate about this particular gimmick is that it's corporate greed showing through at its worst. Calling the 7950GX2 setup a "single-card solution" is nothing more than a public relations stunt, intended to convince people that Nvidia have magically snatched the performance crown. I don't care who has the performance crown, S3 could have it for all I care, as long as it's gained faily and not through a bald-faced lie.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox
Oh...and I still haven't heard anything from you on how I am supposed to fool my OS into thinking that my A64 can do hyperthreading since you seam to believe software can do anything you make it do irregardless of the hardware required to utilize certain software features.

ever heard of an emulator? explain to me how it works. If you know how an emulator work, you'll know software can emulate any existing hardware. If you don't know how an emulator work, then it'd be useless explaining it to you. The best way is to search the web.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I was always under the impression that expansion boards are purchased separately to "expand" your capabilities. So please tell me how I can buy half of a 7950GX2? I would appreciate it. Then, show me where to buy the expansion board to add on my system later. Thanks again.

If Nvidia provided them seperately, how would they use the gimmick of calling it a "single-card solution" which people like you have obviously fallen for? I guess in your world salt and water are the same thing, since salt and water forms a solution.

Yeah, I thought so. You can dance this jig until you form blisters.
You probably remember the Dual GPU cards Gigabyte and ASUS came out with, yes?
One was Dual 6600GT's on one PCB, and the other was Dual 7800GT's on one PCB.
If you recall, those cards were HUGE. So, on both of those cards, both GPU's accessed the single PCI-E slot. Each GPU used the same PCI-E slot. Now, do you still count that as a second PCI-E connector? Even though there is none physically present? I wonder. So Nvidia went with 2PCB's connected via that "connector" so the second GPU can communicate with the first. The card is normal length and width to be able to fit into most PC cases without problems, and made very thin via slender HSF's.

Bottom line is, you can't buy them separately. You buy a 7950GX2, you get one box, one unit, one PCI-E connector. Then the option of buying a second 7950GX2 for quad SLI.
No if's, and's or but's here my friend. It is the fastest single card solution out there bar none. If you don't like that, go write ATI and tell them to copy Nvidia. Then you will be singing a different tune I would imaging. Because 2 1900XT/X in a similar configuration would most likely best the GX2. And then people would be calling it a single card solution, and I would agree with them. I am almost certain I would not see you here drawing diagrams and deeming it not so.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
So you see, the 7950GX2 is as much a single-card solution as the sky is green and the grass is blue. It has two PCI-E connectors, uses two PCI-E slots, but simply uses the architecture of the main card as a sort of add-on/expansion card.
/thread

....... two PCI-e slots? WHERE? you mean the thing between the 2 PCBs?

do you believe there is no connection between 2 cores in a dualcore CPU? do you call it not a single-slot CPU solution?

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Yeah, I thought so. You can dance this jig until you form blisters.

Again with the appeal to spite fallacy, this is getting so old so fast.

You probably remember the Dual GPU cards Gigabyte and ASUS came out with, yes?
One was Dual 6600GT's on one PCB, and the other was Dual 7800GT's on one PCB.
If you recall, those cards were HUGE. So, on both of those cards, both GPU's accessed the single PCI-E slot. Each GPU used the same PCI-E slot. Now, do you still count that as a second PCI-E connector? Even though there is none physically present? I wonder.

No, because those were a single-card solution unlike the 7950GX2. They had two cores on one PCB, using one PCI-E connector. Single-card, dual-GPU.

So Nvidia went with 2PCB's connected via that "connector" so the second GPU can communicate with the first. The card is normal length and width to be able to fit into most PC cases without problems, and made very thin via slender HSF's.

You mean... So Nvidia took the design of the GO 7900, modified it so that two could link together using one as an expansion board, and called it a single-card solution.

Bottom line is, you can't buy them separately. You buy a 7950GX2, you get one box, one unit, one PCI-E connector. Then the option of buying a second 7950GX2 for quad SLI.
No if's, and's or but's here my friend. It is the fastest single card solution out there bar none. If you don't like that, go write ATI and tell them to copy Nvidia. Then you will be singing a different tune I would imaging. Because 2 1900XT/X in a similar configuration would most likely best the GX2. And then people would be calling it a single card solution, and I would agree with them. I am almost certain I would not see you here drawing diagrams and deeming it not so.

Wrong. If you look through this thread, I have said that exact same thing to others.

If ATi copied this idea, using the same method as the GX2 and not using a "two GPUs on one PCB with no specialised connector" method, I would call it a multi-card solution just like the GX2 is.

You're appealing to the wrong motive, and I understand that you wrote this while I was writing out my motivation for expressing this point above. It would do you good to read it now that it is up.

I don't have anything against Nvidia, I don't have anything against the GX2 (considering buying it). I have a problem with gimmicks, be it from Nvidia, ATi, Intel, AMD, S3, or anyone else.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I was always under the impression that expansion boards are purchased separately to "expand" your capabilities. So please tell me how I can buy half of a 7950GX2? I would appreciate it. Then, show me where to buy the expansion board to add on my system later. Thanks again.

If Nvidia provided them seperately, how would they use the gimmick of calling it a "single-card solution" which people like you have obviously fallen for? I guess in your world saline, which is used in sterilising equipment and cuts or using contact lenses, is not made up of salt and water.

At this point, by the way, I would just like to clarify why I am making such a big deal about the difference between calling the 7950GX2 a single-card solution and calling it a multi-card solution: -

The reason is not because I have anything against Nvidia, on the contrary, I have owned many Nvidia cards and still own a 6600GT and 6800GT, nor do I have anything against the 7950GX2 either, as I am actually considering purchasing it sometime in the near future as it's an unorthadox solution and offers great bang for the buck (kicking the crap out of two 7900GTs in SLi while costing the same.)

The reason I find this an important point to make, besides it being on-topic of course, is that I simply hate gimmicks, especially when it's a dishonest gimmick. I hate SLi and Crossfire as I consider them gimmicks, I hate multi-GPU cards as I consider them gimmicks, but what I hate about this particular gimmick is that it's corporate greed showing through at its worst. Calling the 7950GX2 setup a "single-card solution" is nothing more than a public relations stunt, intended to convince people that Nvidia have magically snatched the performance crown. I don't care who has the performance crown, S3 could have it for all I care, as long as it's gained faily and not through a bald-faced lie.

But the performance is there. You are getting what you pay for and then some. You said yourself that it costs the same as 7900GT's but kicks the crap out of them. So what's dishonest about a product that does exactly what it is advertised to do? How is this a bold faced lie? If anything, it's a better freaking deal. All I see out of your last post here is you have a lot of hate for a lot of things. People who hate, I really don't have any use for. Don't like them around. You hate the idea of something that offers more for the money. I don't get it. Not sure I want to either.

EDIT: Going to bed. I will read whatever you post next tomorrow. Have a good night.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: beggerking
....... two PCI-e slots? WHERE? you mean the thing between the 2 PCBs?

do you believe there is no connection between 2 cores in a dualcore CPU? do you call it not a single-slot CPU solution?

Yes, I mean the second PCI-E slot which is how the first card functions as an expansion card.

The difference between the GX2 and a dual-core CPU is that the cores in a dual-core CPU do not just "clip" together, they are melded together through architecture. You can unclip a GX2 and clip it back together and it will still work, take a dual-core processor and snap it in half and nothing will save it.

Now, a better CPU example to compare with a GX2 setup would be the Asrock motherboard. You can connect a second socket to some of those boards so that it can become a dual-processor (not dual-core) motherboard, you can even get an AM2 addon for one of them.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
But the performance is there. You are getting what you pay for and then some. You said yourself that it costs the same as 7900GT's but kicks the crap out of them. So what's dishonest about a product that does exactly what it is advertised to do? How is this a bold faced lie? If anything, it's a better freaking deal. All I see out of your last post here is you have a lot of hate for a lot of things. People who hate, I really don't have any use for. Don't like them around. You hate the idea of something that offers more for the money. I don't get it. Not sure I want to either.

Like I said, and you quoted; I do not have a problem with the GX2, and I do not have a problem with the solution it uses. It's an unorthadox and quite ingenius method, and I like methods that are way out of the ordinary which is why I enjoy reading about the latest Asrock motherboards even if I do not use them.

My problem is not with the GX2 or the method, it's with the gimmick. If Nvidia simply said that it's two cards stuck together, using a two PCI-E slots in total, they would never be able to say "this is a single card and we have the performance crown now." Neither would the fanboys who adore and defend that gimmick. If ATi did the same, I would criticise them for lying too, since I have no brand loyalty (in fact I own more Nvidia cards than ATi cards right now, and would've bought a 7900GT instead of my X1800XT were it not for the overwhelming number of RMAs and me being simply uncomfortable with the idea of hardware volt-modding, and the HDR+AA thing too, so I guess that makes me 2/3rds an Nvidia fan-boy.)

The GX2? It's great, and I want it.

The idea behind it? It's great, and I want it.

The implimentation of it? It's great, and I want it.

The explanation of it? Is pure marketting BS. I still want it, but there's no way in hell I'll call it a single card.

 

[DARQ MX]

tag

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: redbox
Oh...and I still haven't heard anything from you on how I am supposed to fool my OS into thinking that my A64 can do hyperthreading since you seam to believe software can do anything you make it do irregardless of the hardware required to utilize certain software features.

ever heard of an emulator? explain to me how it works. If you know how an emulator work, you'll know software can emulate any existing hardware. If you don't know how an emulator work, then it'd be useless explaining it to you. The best way is to search the web.

So your telling me that there is an emulator that will enable my A64 to use HT? Care to link it? Better yet find an emulator that will allow an older P4 to use HT, or even the conroe. Fact is software is bound by the limitations of hardware.

I would also like you to answer how a name and a technical name differ in meaning.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
But the performance is there. You are getting what you pay for and then some. You said yourself that it costs the same as 7900GT's but kicks the crap out of them. So what's dishonest about a product that does exactly what it is advertised to do? How is this a bold faced lie? If anything, it's a better freaking deal. All I see out of your last post here is you have a lot of hate for a lot of things. People who hate, I really don't have any use for. Don't like them around. You hate the idea of something that offers more for the money. I don't get it. Not sure I want to either.

Like I said, and you quoted; I do not have a problem with the GX2, and I do not have a problem with the solution it uses. It's an unorthadox and quite ingenius method, and I like methods that are way out of the ordinary which is why I enjoy reading about the latest Asrock motherboards even if I do not use them.

My problem is not with the GX2 or the method, it's with the gimmick. If Nvidia simply said that it's two cards stuck together, using a two PCI-E slots in total, they would never be able to say "this is a single card and we have the performance crown now." Neither would the fanboys who adore and defend that gimmick. If ATi did the same, I would criticise them for lying too, since I have no brand loyalty (in fact I own more Nvidia cards than ATi cards right now, and would've bought a 7900GT instead of my X1800XT were it not for the overwhelming number of RMAs and me being simply uncomfortable with the idea of hardware volt-modding, and the HDR+AA thing too, so I guess that makes me 2/3rds an Nvidia fan-boy.)

The GX2? It's great, and I want it.

The idea behind it? It's great, and I want it.

The implimentation of it? It's great, and I want it.

The explanation of it? Is pure marketting BS. I still want it, but there's no way in hell I'll call it a single card.

It's not a gimmick. The GX2 works with non-SLI system boards. It fits in a single PCI-E slot. When you hold it in your hand, it's one distinct unit. So from the end user's point of view it is a single card solution, and that's why it is marketed as such. Everybody knows it uses SLI; it's in practically every review and every fanboy argument about the damn thing. If you people would stop imagining that someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes, you wouldn't have a problem with nVidia marketing it as a single card solution.

 

[BFG10K]

BFG, stop making up new phrases to cover yourself. the correct term is stages!

If you want to split hairs that's your problem, not mine. It's obvious you cloud the issue with rhetoric because you have no clue what you're talking about.

Furthermore I didn't see you raise this "issue" when you conveniently chopped my sentence off to suite your childish games.

when a pipeline stall, data is pulled and set aside waiting, while new data enters the pipeline.

This is a simplistic and lacking explanation.

For one It doesn't have to stall at all as the two logical CPUs can execute concurrently by switching between the two sets of instructions. This is done when execution units are idle with the first thread but can be put to better use with the second thread.

Secondly the pipeline resources are replicated and shared with the two threads throughout the pipeline as needed. The data is not pulled, it simply continues executing on resources that aren't used by the other thread.

Click.

The processor can work on two sets of tasks simultaneously, use resources that otherwise would sit idle, and get more work done in the same amount of time.

Also Intel themselves say it's still one processor that presents itself as two virtual processors and thus your "hardware has nothing to do with software" is utter rubbish since it's the hardware on the chip (i.e. the HT) that allows it to behave in this manner.

Click.

There's still just one physical Pentium 4 processor in your PC but the processor can execute two threads simultaneously.

Unless you'd care to explain to us how to add HT to a non-HT processor using software (I think you've been asked this already but you continue to dodge any questions that you can't answer due to your delusional ramblings).

Data cannot only be skipped in a pipeline (aka your *section*)

Speak English please.

link me to an article that talks about your "driver path" then. If you can't, then be quiet from now on.

I'm still waiting for your answer on how to enable SLI and SLI AA on a single card as per your "hardware has nothing do with software" nonsense.

I'd also like to know how a 7950 counts as a single card in your world given it allows SLI and SLI AA.

And while you're at it, demonstrate how to add HT to a non-HT processor using software only.

 

[Bull Dog]

beggerking why is it so important to you that the 7950GX2 be considered as a single card to you?

Is it becuase that you you can then try and argue that "single card" GX2 beats a X1900XTX?...............well give it up--the pricepoints aren't the same.

You are outmanned and outgunned.

If the 7950 was truly a "single card" then it wouldn't have the limitations currently present with SLI setups (like no V-sinc for example). Of course you could tell the drivers to treat it like a non-SLI setup, but that would defeat the entire purpose of buying that card in the first place.
However I don't think that the 7950GX2 is truly a double card solution either. So, I'll opt for saying its a 1.5-1.75 card solution.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Bull Dog
If the 7950 was truly a "single card" then it wouldn't have the limitations currently present with SLI setups (like no V-sinc for example). Of course you could tell the drivers to treat it like a non-SLI setup, but that would defeat the entire purpose of buying that card in the first place.
However I don't think that the 7950GX2 is truly a double card solution either. So, I'll opt for saying its a 1.5-1.75 card solution.

That explanation hasn't been good enough for some people because then they wouldn't be able to say their single card wins.

I think the best explanation still was given by BFG10K:
"In terms of hardware it's 1 card but software sees it as 2 cards." (basically like an SLI setup in terms of software.)

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
It's not a gimmick. The GX2 works with non-SLI system boards. It fits in a single PCI-E slot. When you hold it in your hand, it's one distinct unit. So from the end user's point of view it is a single card solution, and that's why it is marketed as such. Everybody knows it uses SLI; it's in practically every review and every fanboy argument about the damn thing. If you people would stop imagining that someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes, you wouldn't have a problem with nVidia marketing it as a single card solution.

It is a gimmick. Nvidia market it as a single card with 1GB RAM, purely for e-penis++ reasons and to say "we have the fastest single card in the world, it even performs as good as two."

The reason this is purely a gimmick is because it is two, which I have proven with photographic evidence of all things.

Obviously, Nvidia fanboys will fight tooth and nail to convince everyone that it is a single card solution as they can then, like Nvidia themselves, claim this much coveted "single card performance crown."

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: thilan29

I think the best explanation still was given by BFG10K:
"In terms of hardware it's 1 card but software sees it as 2 cards." (basically like an SLI setup in terms of software.)

how softwares sees doesn't change the fact that

1. 7950gx2 is a hardware.
2. 7950gx2 is physically a single PCI-e card with 2 GPUs.

well, for the same reason I consider a dualcore CPU as a single CPU, I consider 7950GX2 as a single card solution.

Bulldog, do you consider dualcore CPU as a single CPU or not?

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Originally posted by: Beggerking

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Pipeline *** SECTIONS ***, aka execution units. You'd know this if you even had a basic understanding of CPU architecture but you don't.

BFG, stop making up new phrases to cover yourself. the correct term is stages!
and its not how HT works.

If you want to split hairs that's your problem, not mine. It's obvious you cloud the issue with rhetoric because you have no clue what you're talking about.

BFG, stop trying to cover up your mistake.

or do you MEAN to say something else with your "pipeline section"? very much like your "driver path" (which turns out to be data path), you simply don't have the knowledge to reason the internals of a CPU. The fact you are here to argue with your extremely limited techincal terms is laughable.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: beggerking
blah blah blah

did you put your own quote in your sig?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
It's not a gimmick. The GX2 works with non-SLI system boards. It fits in a single PCI-E slot. When you hold it in your hand, it's one distinct unit. So from the end user's point of view it is a single card solution, and that's why it is marketed as such. Everybody knows it uses SLI; it's in practically every review and every fanboy argument about the damn thing. If you people would stop imagining that someone's trying to pull the wool over your eyes, you wouldn't have a problem with nVidia marketing it as a single card solution.

It is a gimmick. Nvidia market it as a single card with 1GB RAM, purely for e-penis++ reasons and to say "we have the fastest single card in the world, it even performs as good as two."

The reason this is purely a gimmick is because it is two, which I have proven with photographic evidence of all things.

Obviously, Nvidia fanboys will fight tooth and nail to convince everyone that it is a single card solution as they can then, like Nvidia themselves, claim this much coveted "single card performance crown."

Photographic evidence? If anything, you have proven that this is nothing but you're opinion, which is fine. Anyone can see that these PCB's need a way to communicate with each other, hence the connector slot. But we still only can make out one actual PCI-E slot in which to insert the card into any PCI-E motherboard. SLI board or not.

Listen, you say tomato (tah-may-toe) and I say tomato (tah-mah-toe). Simple as that.
You have zero evidence that the connector that joins the PCB's are called PCI-E connectors anyways. Not that it would matter. I think it's just something you are calling them.

There is really nothing you can say to someone who has his mind made up based on his own observations. You and I included. So, I know it's a single card. And you know it's 2 cards. Yet they cant be used separately nor can you buy them separately to even try.

You call it a gimmick, and I call it functional as advertised.

 

[archcommus]

Regardless of performance numbers I think the idea of this kind of card is as stupid as sh!t. If they really want SLI without two cards, they should figure out a way to put two GPUs on one PCB.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: archcommus
Regardless of performance numbers I think the idea of this kind of card is as stupid as sh!t. If they really want SLI without two cards, they should figure out a way to put two GPUs on one PCB.

I believe they said the PCB would become too long to fit in most cases.. also, it might be easier to cool with 2 PCBs.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: archcommus
Regardless of performance numbers I think the idea of this kind of card is as stupid as sh!t. If they really want SLI without two cards, they should figure out a way to put two GPUs on one PCB.

I think it is actually a pretty slick design. What would you rather have? One huge PCB that most people cant fit in their case? Because nvidia did it this way, almost anyone can buy one have have it fit. And although I don't own either a 7900GTX, X1900XT or a 7950GX2, I can't say which is the "wider" card. I think Nitro has both an XTX and a GX2 so maybe he can tell us. By wider, I mean thicknes from heatsink side to back side. Because the GX2 looks pretty slender in pictures. The XT looks a little bulky, but that could just be the pics I looked at.

This design beats the heck out of the Gigabyte and ASUS Dual GPU cards.