So, does the 7950GX2 count as a single card solution?

[beggerking]

have you seen any hardware literally break w/o drivers or softwares?

have you seen any virus that would literally break hardware?

if a virus gets into your computer, would you say "my software broke " or "my hardware broke"?

if you have install win95 on your Pentium-D setup, would you then start calling it a Pentium4 because win95 only sees 1 CPU?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: beggerking
have you seen any hardware literally break w/o drivers or softwares?

have you seen any virus that would literally break hardware?

if a virus gets into your computer, would you say "my software broke " or "my hardware broke"?

if you have install win95 on your Pentium-D setup, would you then start calling it a Pentium4 because win95 only sees 1 CPU?

Originally posted by: thilan29
Beggerking, I think you have to understand something. Please read through what I say carefully.

All this time you have been arguing semantics. No one doubts that the card can turn on and off and go to the BIOS and safemode too without a specific SLI driver. However, what people are trying to get across is that to experience the full features and power of the card, you NEED the SLI drivers. That is what people mean by "software is related to hardware".

It's like if you have a car and the engine starts fine but the transmission doesn't work. You can say the car "works" but that's not the point of the car...it needs to move also and can't without the transmission working properly. In the same way the 7950 (engine) needs the the SLI drivers (transmission) to function with the full features and power. And the SLI drivers sees 2 GPUs and hence why some people don't consider it a single card.

See what I'm saying?

I'll quote it again...so you can see why people are arguing with you. I hope this doesn't go right over your head cause it's pretty simple.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: beggerking
have you seen any hardware literally break w/o drivers or softwares?

have you seen any virus that would literally break hardware?

if a virus gets into your computer, would you say "my software broke " or "my hardware broke"?

if you have install win95 on your Pentium-D setup, would you then start calling it a Pentium4 because win95 only sees 1 CPU?

Was I talking about whether or not a piece of hardware can be broken without software? No, I was simply saying that it wouldn't be used as it was intended without software. Software and hardware depend on one another to achieve a level of value to an enthusitast. Plain and simple.

Now, do you install drivers on your system? Why? Do you have an OS? Why? Why can't the 7950GX2 do Quad-SLI right now, even though the hardware is present already to utilize that feature?

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Was I talking about whether or not a piece of hardware can be broken without software? No, I was simply saying that it wouldn't be used as it was intended without software. Software and hardware depend on one another to achieve a level of value to an enthusitast. Plain and simple.

Now, do you install drivers on your system? Why? Do you have an OS? Why? Why can't the 7950GX2 do Quad-SLI right now, even though the hardware is present already to utilize that feature?

and I was simply saying how hardware operates technically has no relation to software. Plain and simple.

The answer to your question is, I would consider the lack of software support a software issue, it is not related to hardware.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: josh6079

Was I talking about whether or not a piece of hardware can be broken without software? No, I was simply saying that it wouldn't be used as it was intended without software. Software and hardware depend on one another to achieve a level of value to an enthusitast. Plain and simple.

Now, do you install drivers on your system? Why? Do you have an OS? Why? Why can't the 7950GX2 do Quad-SLI right now, even though the hardware is present already to utilize that feature?

and I was simply saying how hardware operates technically has no relation to software. Plain and simple.

The answer to your question is, I would consider the lack of software support a software issue, it is not related to hardware.

But it is related to hardware because it affects how you interact with the hardware. In fact it makes the hardware unuseable for the purpose which you bought it for. Beggerking I usually try to see the other side of an argument, but I am having a very hard time understanding what you are trying to say. Maybe if you tried to explain it a different way it would be easier to grasp.

 

[Keysplayr]

Maybe the hardware/software argument could be moved to the general hardware forum?
If this has anything to do whatsoever with the thread topic, like "in windows, the GX2 shows up as two separate cards", or something like that, this argument has certainly morphed into something else.

 

[nullpointerus]

The phrase not related to hardware can mean so many different things. If this discussion continues on its present course, you guys will be arguing this 'til doomsday.

 

[5150Joker]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Maybe the hardware/software argument could be moved to the general hardware forum?
If this has anything to do whatsoever with the thread topic, like "in windows, the GX2 shows up as two separate cards", or something like that, this argument has certainly morphed into something else.

Yeah I agree, this thread has gone into the realm of the absurd discussing driver paths and what not that have little to do with the 7950.

 

[thilanliyan]

It'll continue going over his head(or in one ear and out the other). He doesn't like to look at the other side of an argument and so it's really pointless...the thread should just die(I certainly won't post anymore after this)...no point in creating another.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
The phrase not related to hardware can mean so many different things. If this discussion continues on its present course, you guys will be arguing this 'til doomsday.

I can see that happening if we continue on this course of high brow "well, what is ment when we say 'not related to hardware'" It can go around and around and doesn't really get answered. This does not though affect the fact that the relationship between hardware and software is symbiotic. You cannot functionaly have only software, or only hardware. It' like a human without a brain, or a brain without a human, both you cannot call working on their own. For instance no amount of debating the peripheral subjects will change the fact that owners of this card HAVE to change the bios of the motherboard, the video drivers, and enable sli inside the video drivers in order to use this card as it was intended. These are changes that occur on a software level. Now you could argue many of my terms whether it be if I used the correct terms, what the intended us is, what constitutes work in regards to computer hardware, but all that that really does is take the aim off of the issue.

I agree to those whose soul purpose it to argue the semantics of the issue should move the argument into General Hardware or another part of these forums. The scope of that type of argument is really quite a bit bigger than this thread calls for(and really probably bigger than most of the readers in video want to be subjected to).

 

[josh6079]

Whatever beggerking, I can see now that you alone are arguing everyone else now participating in this thread, and that says something. Everyone else except you can see how the two are related, sorry we couldn't get that logic to stick in your head.

I say its time for this thread to die as well.

 

[Keysplayr]

R.I.P.

 

[beggerking]

whatever Josh, I see you just can't get the correct technical definition of a hardware to stick in your head.

RIP.

 

[BFG10K]

incorrect. it outputs garbage results, yields 0 performance, but the hardware itself still work as it still inputs and outputs data.

That's because your definition of "working" is actually "not working" for everyone else.

care to explain your theory?

I doesn't "fetch data from the HD", the game requests it through the API and Windows then passes the API call to the driver which then directly programs and operates the HD to get the data.

Please read and re-read my original quote until you comprehend what it means. Thanks.

actually you did

No, I didn't.

please stop flipflopping.

Do you even understand what that term means?


I'm still wating for answers to:

[*]How do I flash a GPU with a NIC BIOS ("hardware has nothing to do with software").

[*]Why the XP installer needs drivers to access SATA drives ("OS fetches data from the HD").

[*]Why I can force AA and AF in OpenGL games that know nothing about said features ("the OS does it through DirectX").


This is in addition to the dozen or so scenarios you've already been asked which include:

[*]Why Quad SLI isn't working even though the hardware supports it ("hardware works without software").

[*]How to get HT working on an Athlon 64 ("hardware has nothing to do with software").

Answer the questions instead of dodging anything that proves you are wrong.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

incorrect. it outputs garbage results, yields 0 performance, but the hardware itself still work as it still inputs and outputs data.

That's because your definition of "working" is actually "not working" for everyone else.

care to explain your theory?

I doesn't "fetch data from the HD", the game requests it through the API and Windows then passes the API call to the driver which then directly programs and operates the HD to get the data.

Please read and re-read my original quote until you comprehend what it means. Thanks.

actually you did

No, I didn't.

please stop flipflopping.

Do you even understand what that term means?


I'm still wating for answers to:

[*]How do I flash a GPU with a NIC BIOS ("hardware has nothing to do with software").

[*]Why the XP installer needs drivers to access SATA drives ("OS fetches data from the HD").

[*]Why I can force AA and AF in OpenGL games that know nothing about said features ("the OS does it through DirectX").


This is in addition to the dozen or so scenarios you've already been asked which include:

[*]Why Quad SLI isn't working even though the hardware supports it ("hardware works without software").

[*]How to get HT working on an Athlon 64 ("hardware has nothing to do with software").

Answer the questions instead of dodging anything that proves you are wrong.

So much for R.I.P. then?

 

[Rangoric]

Originally posted by: beggerking
have you seen any hardware literally break w/o drivers or softwares?

have you seen any virus that would literally break hardware?

if a virus gets into your computer, would you say "my software broke " or "my hardware broke"?

if you have install win95 on your Pentium-D setup, would you then start calling it a Pentium4 because win95 only sees 1 CPU?

Hmmmm

Anyways...
So what you are saying, is that Overclocking is completely and utterly safe?
Since most overclocking is done via software.

 

[Keysplayr]

And I would imagine a virus can prevent a hard drive head from parking when the computer shuts down. Not sure it's possible, but that would surely damage the drive beyond repair. And also, voltages can be adjusted through software yes? This obviously could damage hardware. I'm sure theres more.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Snip huge appeal to motive and red-herring fallacy.

No matter how much evidence or provide or how many times I point out your blatantly idiotic logic, I am not going to be able to make a scratch in your wall of ignorance, so I give up. I have had more intelligent discussion with my cats than I have with fanboys like yourself. :roll:

Originally posted by: coldpower27
Agreed, if someone suggested their point of view in such a manner I would not even consider the evidence they propose, regardless of how good such evidence was.

Appeal to motive fallacy. :roll:

If anyone else would like to discuss this, someone who won't ignore completely valid evidence or spew logical fallacies left-right-and-centre, feel free to PM me or just continue the discussion in this thread.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Double post.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And I would imagine a virus can prevent a hard drive head from parking when the computer shuts down. Not sure it's possible, but that would surely damage the drive beyond repair. And also, voltages can be adjusted through software yes? This obviously could damage hardware. I'm sure theres more.

Text
"The CIH virus renders a PC unusable by re-flashing the flash memory chip holding the BIOS. The routine in CIH effectively trashes the BIOS. However, although it leaves the machine unusable (and often leaves the mainboard effectively irreparable) this is not an example of software damaging hardware. The hardware is all still fully functional,but just happens to be built into a bad design that prevents the (economical) return of the system to a working state. "
Text
"Q. Can viruses destroy hardware?
A. There are no known viruses that damage hardware."

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Snip huge appeal to motive and red-herring fallacy.

No matter how much evidence or provide or how many times I point out your blatantly idiotic logic, I am not going to be able to make a scratch in your wall of ignorance, so I give up. I have had more intelligent discussion with my cats than I have with fanboys like yourself. :roll:

Originally posted by: coldpower27
Agreed, if someone suggested their point of view in such a manner I would not even consider the evidence they propose, regardless of how good such evidence was.

Appeal to motive fallacy. :roll:

If anyone else would like to discuss this, someone who won't ignore completely valid evidence or spew logical fallacies left-right-and-centre, feel free to PM me or just continue the discussion in this thread.

If someone doesn't respect other people opinions and speaks in such a manner then I am not giving their information the time of day, it is that simple. So your information doesn't get considered, but that isn't my problem, presenting information in the proper manner is just as important to how accurate the information is.

Resorting to name calling and harsh language, won't improve the situation any more either.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And I would imagine a virus can prevent a hard drive head from parking when the computer shuts down. Not sure it's possible, but that would surely damage the drive beyond repair. And also, voltages can be adjusted through software yes? This obviously could damage hardware. I'm sure theres more.

Text
"The CIH virus renders a PC unusable by re-flashing the flash memory chip holding the BIOS. The routine in CIH effectively trashes the BIOS. However, although it leaves the machine unusable (and often leaves the mainboard effectively irreparable) this is not an example of software damaging hardware. The hardware is all still fully functional,but just happens to be built into a bad design that prevents the (economical) return of the system to a working state. "
Text
"Q. Can viruses destroy hardware?
A. There are no known viruses that damage hardware."

Just more of your usual changing of the issue. We never made the claim in the first place that software could damage hardware. Besides that article even admits this is spliting hairs. Furthermore that article implys a relationship between hardware and software. For instance when the bios(software) is trashed so is the ability to use the hardware. Now the hardware didn't break persay as in break into pieces but the function for which the user was asking the hardware to do is now gone, and to fix it the user would have to buy another motherboard. The real problem here is that you are thinking in an abstract technical world and I am thinking of the real world applications. Yes the hardware is still there but it is no longer functional so there for can not do work. An object that at one point in time did work but no longer does any work would be called ______. That's right, broken.

Unlike this present topic (which none of your opponents brought up to begin with) you have your self said: "Its not like software won't run correctly without hardware." Do you have a case of software running correctly without hardware? I would be interested in seeing how you would run software without hardware.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Snip huge appeal to motive and red-herring fallacy.

No matter how much evidence or provide or how many times I point out your blatantly idiotic logic, I am not going to be able to make a scratch in your wall of ignorance, so I give up. I have had more intelligent discussion with my cats than I have with fanboys like yourself. :roll:

Originally posted by: coldpower27
Agreed, if someone suggested their point of view in such a manner I would not even consider the evidence they propose, regardless of how good such evidence was.

Appeal to motive fallacy. :roll:

If anyone else would like to discuss this, someone who won't ignore completely valid evidence or spew logical fallacies left-right-and-centre, feel free to PM me or just continue the discussion in this thread.

There is not a decent bone in your body is there? Your good for laughs, but thats about it. And you did make me laugh. Thanks

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Snip huge appeal to motive and red-herring fallacy.

No matter how much evidence or provide or how many times I point out your blatantly idiotic logic, I am not going to be able to make a scratch in your wall of ignorance, so I give up. I have had more intelligent discussion with my cats than I have with fanboys like yourself. :roll:

Originally posted by: coldpower27
Agreed, if someone suggested their point of view in such a manner I would not even consider the evidence they propose, regardless of how good such evidence was.

Appeal to motive fallacy. :roll:

If anyone else would like to discuss this, someone who won't ignore completely valid evidence or spew logical fallacies left-right-and-centre, feel free to PM me or just continue the discussion in this thread.

If someone doesn't respect other people opinions and speaks in such a manner then I am not giving their information the time of day, it is that simple. So your information doesn't get considered, but that isn't my problem, presenting information in the proper manner is just as important to how accurate the information is.

Resorting to name calling and harsh language, won't improve the situation any more either.

I agree with you, but he is not interested in improving the situation. His desire to fight, argue and inspire loathing is most evident. Just laugh at him. He is entertaining, for what its worth.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Ok, people. All you people can have a cookie.



Is it that hard to understand?

The 7950GX2 is a 2 PCB design. Hence it does NOT count as a single card solution. (A single card solution means the card is based on ONE PCB)

HOWEVER it requires just one PCI-e slot like single cards, making it a single PCI-e slot solution.

This issue is just like how light behaves like waves yet it doesnt make light a wave because it could also be a particle.

The card itself behaves like a single card solution, having to use just one PCI-e slot, take some just 2 slots like modern high end single cards and the ability to be used on non SLi boards.

But it uses SLi to render the games (meaning it needs profiles and etc) and ALSO the 7950GX2 is of 2 PCB design making it NOT a single card solution.

We can safely say that the 7950GX2 is a dual GPU solution that behaves like a single card solution yet it isnt a single card solution.