So are we or are we not getting the tax rebates (ie 1600 dollars for families w/children) thing

[PingSpike]

So its not free money, its just another loan from future me? I suppose thats what it actually was anyway. I was hoping this one would just be defered long enough that I might be able to die before the bill comes due, like all that other stuff in the black hole that is our national debt.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei
YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

It never was a real stimulus plan. It just isn't likely to have any help.

The government has several options.

1) Borrow money. Give it to the people, don't touch government spending, so that means the government goes into debt. Then that debt needs to be paid back. There is a temporary boost in spending now matched with a later temporary cut in spending. What you gain now, you lose later. It appears that this is the path they decided to follow. This isn't any more of a "stimulus" than forcing everyone in America to go get an individual loan. Sure, you will temporarilly spend more, but that doesn't mean you are any better off because you have to pay it back.

2) Don't borrow money, give money to the people and pay for it by less government spending. No government debt, people get real free money. Sounds great. Except, for two things. (A) Since the government slashed spending by ~$150B and America increases spending by ~$150B, the net effect is zero. Zilch. Nada. No stimulus can happen with this method. It is a feel good tactic, that is unless (B) you happen to own or work for the companies that just got that ~$150B cut.

Either way, there is no long term stimulus at all. So lets stop calling it a stimulus. It is a 6 to 9 month interest free loan that the government gives us. But of course, we have to pay it back and the government is on the hook for paying all that interest. Lots of costs for little to no gain.

 

[dullard]

Note: if done PROPERLY #1 in my post can be good. In times of recession, the government goes into debt. Then in boom times, the government over taxes to regain that debt. The end result is it smoothes out the economy. The recessions are not so bad, and the booms are not so good. This stability is a good thing.

Unfortunately, the government always screws it up. Take the last mild recession in the early 2000s. Bush's tax cuts and "stimulus" plan were right on to ensure the recession was mild. However, Bush and congress forgot the required second half: to get that money back when times are good. We had several years of a good economy. Yet they just spend it away and didn't reap in the money from the boom times. Now they have little to work with to stop this recession.

Then that leads to the whole tax cut helps the economy myth. Bush's tax cuts are right near their max right now. And guess what, we are entering a recession. They didn't work to stop this recession. It isn't a tax cut that helps recessions, it is government deficit spending that helps recessions. Yes, you can get to government deficit spending via tax cuts, but that isn't the only way to do so. And you have to offset that with surpluses in the good times.

 

[sourceninja]

If they do this, everyone I know is going to shuffle this off into their savings. I'll probably put it into my IRA that I've been neglecting this year. I'm not going to do what I did last time they did this. Last time I spent the money on stuff, only to get screwed at tax time when I owed more then I expected because of that 'rebate'. This time I'm going to tuck the money away so it can make me money, and then I won't be hit with an unexpected expense. Luckily I am not hard up for cash, but I can see how this actually hurts more americans then it helps.

 

[0roo0roo]

its borrowing to give you a rebate.
i guess thats justifiable for those in pain.
the republicans want to borrow to give something back to the wealthy as well.
wth is that.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Queasy
The Senate tried to lard up the bill with another $50 billion or so in spending. Pushing the bill to over $200 billion.

Senate Republicans blocked it. Now the Senate leaders have to decide if they want to try again or just pass the original Congressional bill.

Frankly, I wish it would just die. The majority of the bill is nothing but a vote buying measure that will do nothing to stimulate the economy.

Somehow dollars going to unemployment benefits don't stimulate the economy as much as tax rebates??

Many studies have proven that the vast majority of people on unemployment find work in the last few weeks of their benefit period. Increasing unemployment benefits would just keep more people out of work longer.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

 

[newb111]

The way I understand it is this:

In 2008 we will be getting a tax cut on the first $6,000 of income, resulting in $600 less taxes than you would have paid. Then they offer the $600 rebate check now, which is an advance on that tax cut. You still end up with more money overall than you would have, but it's because of the tax cut, not the rebate check. If you didn't get the rebate check, you'd still get the tax cut when you file 2008 taxes.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

 

[newb111]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

I think CNN updated the article. Earlier today there was a line that said it was an advance on next years tax rebate.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I believe they are leaning to giving it to us sometime around May-June. That is what I was last told at least.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I believe they are leaning to giving it to us sometime around May-June. That is what I was last told at least.

right, but it said it was an advance of next year's refund. so that is why i wondered what was going to happen if you don't get a tax refund.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I believe they are leaning to giving it to us sometime around May-June. That is what I was last told at least.

right, but it said it was an advance of next year's refund. so that is why i wondered what was going to happen if you don't get a tax refund.

Complications like that are why I think we are just going to get a check in the mail or something to that effect. If this happens at all they are going to want to keep it as simple as possible.

 

[dquan97]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I agree with you...I think cnn edited the story because I saw that it was an advance on next year's refund.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: dquan97

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I agree with you...I think cnn edited the story because I saw that it was an advance on next year's refund.

I thought they were just eliminating the 10% tax bracket for 2008, and giving people that money starting in May. That would mean you do not have to pay it back when you file your 2008 taxes.

EDIT: doh, the MSN article disagrees with what I posted:

link

 

[FeuerFrei]

Originally posted by: dquan97

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I agree with you...I think cnn edited the story because I saw that it was an advance on next year's refund.

I will confirm that they removed the sentence which stated the upcoming rebate is merely an advance. Hmm.

I should have copied it into the post. It was right under that man's picture. Crikey.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: BKLounger
with 600 dollar rebates 2008 is gonna be the year of the HDTV.

Brilliant observation.

MotionMan

 

[newb111]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: dquan97

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I agree with you...I think cnn edited the story because I saw that it was an advance on next year's refund.

I thought they were just eliminating the 10% tax bracket for 2008, and giving people that money starting in May. That would mean you do not have to pay it back when you file your 2008 taxes.

EDIT: doh, the MSN article disagrees with what I posted:

link

The MSN article says exactly what you did, and I did earlier in the thread. The rebate check is not free money, but the tax cut is. You still get $600 more than you would have, and you get it in may 08 rather than april 09.

 

[Special K]

Originally posted by: newb111

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: dquan97

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: Flammable
do you have to pay it back?

YES. I just discovered it's an advance on next year's refund and will be deducted next year from any refund.
Weak.:frown:

CNN story
Now I don't really want the money ...

Nowhere in that article did it say anything about an advance. I dont believe this is an advance, it's a deficit financed handout.

Yeah, I was going to post the same thing. Where in that article does it say the money is an advance on 2008's tax refund?

what the? i swear they edited the article. when i read it earlier it said it was to be repaid through next year's tax refund.

I agree with you...I think cnn edited the story because I saw that it was an advance on next year's refund.

I thought they were just eliminating the 10% tax bracket for 2008, and giving people that money starting in May. That would mean you do not have to pay it back when you file your 2008 taxes.

EDIT: doh, the MSN article disagrees with what I posted:

link

The MSN article says exactly what you did, and I did earlier in the thread. The rebate check is not free money, but the tax cut is. You still get $600 more than you would have, and you get it in may 08 rather than april 09.

I guess the wording of the article threw me off a bit. If I am paying $600 less in taxes for 2008 than I otherwise would have had Congress not passed this bill, then that is like me effectively receiving an extra $600 for the year. The government is then mailing the money out this May rather than me having to wait until 2009 when I file my 2008 return.

Having an extra $600 than I otherwise would have had Congress not passed this bill sure sounds like free money to me - "free" in the sense that I don't have to turn around and pay it back when I file my 2008 taxes in 2009.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Special K
Having an extra $600 than I otherwise would have had Congress not passed this bill sure sounds like free money to me - "free" in the sense that I don't have to turn around and pay it back when I file my 2008 taxes in 2009.

Except that the government is now $600 + interest poorer. And that means either (1) future tax hikes to pay it back, (2) less chance of future tax cuts, or (3) fewer services going to you.

Any time the government gives you "free" money, it isn't really free. You will pay for it somehow in the future.

 

[FeuerFrei]

Ok. CNN has another explanatory article up.
Rebates: what you need to know

Do I have to pay the rebate back?

No. And here's why.

Your rebate is a one-time tax cut - an advance on a credit you'll receive on your 2008 return.

It's based on your 2007 income initially. If it turns out that your 2008 income and number of children would have qualified you for a larger rebate than the one you received, you'll be sent the difference. If it turns out your 2008 income was lower than in 2007 and you should have gotten a lower rebate, you get to keep the difference.

"If you were supposed to receive a larger payment than you did, you will get the extra money," said Treasury spokesman Andrew DeSouza. "If you received more than what you should have gotten, you will not be penalized."

I'm finally understanding it now. It won't be an advance on the anticipated refund for 2008 income. It's an advance on a credit you get when you file your 2008 return next year. So it won't be deducted any future refund you may qualify for. :thumbsup: