So apparently more of us need to go to College

[Axon]

Sorry to be so vehement. There are alot of different expectations and opinions on it. It worked for alot of people and thats okay. I'm probably most angry at going to college without really thinking about it. My friends who went into trades did WAY better. If it was my own decision and not hearing 1,000 times over that I needed to go to college I really wouldn't have gone. I would have looked at the price and just laughed.

I think this is the problem. Our culture makes it seems like we MUST go to college. Let me use my own example here. My mom was obsessed with my education; to call her relentless is being kind. She hounded me as a child, was impossible to please, and I was terrified of her. In HS I rebelled big time and had crap grades.

Despite this, she still insisted I go to college, and at 17, you're not entirely free of paternal control, so I went. She said to go, my friends were going, everyone was going, so I went. I'm not sure if I even wanted to. I certainly wasn't interested in more education or school. I didn't REALLY understand what I was getting into in terms of debt, and there wasn't much in the way of education about it in 1997.

That's not to absolve myself of all blame, I signed on the dotted line. But at 17...you don't know crap. Especially my generation. We're a generation of children! I have people 29, 30, who I know, and they act 17...ridiculous.

 

[Exterous]

The 70's grads, the 80's grads, the 90's grads, etc. It all worked out for them, thats fine, it was a good decision at the time. All because it worked in the past doesn't mean it works now. Now its a bad decision.

No - its not a bad decision its just not a blanket good decision. You can't just get any degree anymore. Now there is some thought and luck involved.

Gen Y has both the worst employment rate and the highest debt loads, and typically a lower salary to boot.

Trust me - I know. The year I graduated my degree took the top spot in the 'unemployed graduates' section and has held it every year since - 8 years running! Doesn't mean college education is bad or not worth it. (Also doesn't mean there isn't a problem with tuition costs and student loans)

It does mean that goign to college requires more careful thought and planning which our high schoolers are woefully illprepared to deal with

 

[Axon]

I'll just leave this here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itn1P4KpZpU

 

[brianmanahan]

honestly people:

just be good at what you do

and work at being better at what you do

and strive to be better than most everyone else in your field

and you should be able to make it

but if you expect to coast, then you are toast

 

[TridenT]

100% truth. I'm a 2007 J.D., just turned 33 years old. And thank god, I'm somewhat successful in the legal field and earning over 100k a year, plus pieces of the attorney's fees from my settlements, usually around 15k before and 8kish after taxes. I'm now under $90k for total loans, but it's still $800 a month. Brutal. Makes it hard to pay rent sometimes.

But I'm the success story. My law clerk? 2012 J.D., 28, 45k, owes.... i think $240k? She's f**ked. The only way she's paying that is if I open my own firm and together we settle a big case.

Of course, I still get taxed massively for medicare and less massively for SSI, which I've been told I WILL NOT get. Nor can I deduct my student loan interest (4.5k a year), because my base salary is too high.

It's enough to make a dude wanna burn s**t down....

Lol, what? How is it hard to pay $800/month when you're making over $100k/yr? Unless you're incompetent with money, it's pretty easy. Shit man, $800/month isn't even $10k/yr. If you cannot afford $10k/yr with $100k+/yr job, then you're bad at finance. I don't care if you even save half of your income. That's still pathetic. Sounds like a fail story.

EDIT: College degree is required for a lot of jobs in certain fields. Not everyone out there wants to be a professional plumber, electrician, whatever. If you don't know what you're doing in school then you probably shouldn't be in it OR FIGURE IT OUT. A lot of us know what we want and get what we want out of the education.

 

[OverVolt]

Um, taxes?

Gen Y doesn't understand taxes. You get that big degree and get your big salary and have to pay off your big student loans and oh shit you have to actually pay your taxes if you make $100k

 

[ArmyVet88]

Regardless of what everyone would think, i got out of the Military in 2010 after two tours to Afghanistan in i woke up a couple months ago and looked at my wife and said i hate what i am doing. Ive been back in construction (plumbing) since ive been out and im tired of beating my body down. Im not the smartest person but anything can be done if you will. I am hopefully enrolling to a community college this fall or maybe next spring. I plan on getting an A.S (2 year degree) in Compute Engineering Science. Its not going to be all that expensive either. I am 25 years old and just realizing something i am passionate about. Will i be drowning in debt, more then likely not. I agree to many people went to college that did not need to. At the end of the day higher education will always weigh more then not.

 

[unokitty]

Regardless of what everyone would think, i got out of the Military in 2010 after two tours to Afghanistan in i woke up a couple months ago and looked at my wife and said i hate what i am doing. Ive been back in construction (plumbing) since ive been out and im tired of beating my body down. Im not the smartest person but anything can be done if you will. I am hopefully enrolling to a community college this fall or maybe next spring. I plan on getting an A.S (2 year degree) in Compute Engineering Science. Its not going to be all that expensive either. I am 25 years old and just realizing something i am passionate about. Will i be drowning in debt, more then likely not. I agree to many people went to college that did not need to. At the end of the day higher education will always weigh more then not.

An investment of time and money in education can still offer an excellent return. I think that the discussion here indicates that it is important to choose an educational field that is both right for you and right for the economy that you anticipate when you graduate. With your experience, I think that you have some advantages in making that choice.

If I may offer a suggestion it would be to think not only of your current but also of your future educational goals. I think that a 2 year degree is an excellent start. But would urge you to consider the next step which would be 2 more years for a Bachelors degree. And then, if you still have GI Bill left, another year, or two, for a Masters.

Don't neglect to gain experience as you gain degrees. For most people, working for 18 to 36 months after you get each degree will provide you with insight into how you want to continue your education as well as increasing the worth of your next degree.

If you haven't already, be sure to contact the Veterans office at the school that you are planning on attending. You have earned benefits. Make sure that you know what they are and what you have to do to draw them. Your school's Veterans office will likely be a good contact for you there.

Forty two years ago, when I got out of the Army, I didn't have a degree. Now, I have three and I love what I do. Could have never done it without the GI Bill!

Best of luck,
Uno
Sentry Dog Handler
US Army 69-71


--Please, please make sure that whatever 2 year degree that you choose will transfer to a 4 year school. (Last state I lived in an AA degree would transfer fine but an AS degree wouldn't.) Even if you are not interested in a 4 year degree now, you will be better off with the option of getting one later....

 

[holden j caufield]

why is it so damn expensive for kids now. It just doesn't make sense with the numbers. When I went it was maybe 4.5k a year in tuition, the other stuff parking, dorms, books etc added up way more and this was in 2000. Now I see it's 15k a year in tuition alone. More than 3x in such a short time is mind boggling. Someone mentioned the parking pass price and I was in shock. They are gouging these kids and their families. I have no skin in this now but the entire thing is scam now.

 

[Zebo]

I'm 40 an my oldest is about to start college but I told him Accounting/MBA or premed is all I'll pay for. I think everything can be outsourced but investment bankers and doctors otherwise it's so risky taking on such debt. I don't want to tell you guys what I really think and bum you out but 11B ARMY might not be so bad either.

 

[Zebo]

College degrees used to be worth more because less people had them. Now more people have them so they're worth less. I don't know why people don't understand this. Apparently the way to fix this is to put more people in college?

And do I have to play the game? I'm a mechanical engineer with 10 years of experience. I could get a masters in ME if I wanted to, work would pay for it, but I haven't really been interested in doing so. Should I just get one because in 10-15 years (I'm not retiring anytime soon) it will be a requirement? Like, it won't even matter what my masters focused on, just that I have one? I'd be falling into the continuing education trap, but maybe I should only worry about myself.

You only have the supply, demand is less too. thats a huge problem compared to when us old folks graduated and they begged us to come work flying us out for interviews/meet whole dept etc.

 

[ArmyVet88]

Thanks UNO, as a fellow veteran that meant tons. Like i stated i am not the smartest, but i am a very critical and technical thinker. I chalk that up to being with Special Forces for my 4 years of duty. They honestly re-wired my whole thought process simply by having to adapt to them. I have a serious love for computers and have been teaching myself tons of hardware stuff. My hopes is that the Computer Engineering Science course will be challenging in a non fuck my life sort of way. All i needed a career change, my knees and back are shot from being a paratrooper, so construction (Plumbing & Heating i graduated from a technical highschool in it prior to joining in 06) just was not cutting it for me. Long horrid hours, crawl spaces suck, running pipe sucks. Honestly computers is something i can actually see myself doing. Im not the happiest veteran now-a-days, lack of gainful employment. If im going to have to work for myself or work crazy hours, let it be something i get a hard on for.

 

[Triumph]

why is it so damn expensive for kids now. It just doesn't make sense with the numbers. When I went it was maybe 4.5k a year in tuition, the other stuff parking, dorms, books etc added up way more and this was in 2000. Now I see it's 15k a year in tuition alone. More than 3x in such a short time is mind boggling. Someone mentioned the parking pass price and I was in shock. They are gouging these kids and their families. I have no skin in this now but the entire thing is scam now.

It is clear to anyone with a brain that an industry that outpaces inflation by a large margin is in trouble. The biggest fundamental problem, the elephant in the room, is the fact that people don't want to admit that there are many millions who simply aren't smart enough for college. That doesn't mean they can't find a job somewhere that they're good at. But there's no respect for the trades in this country. If you go to school to be a plumber or electrician, you're looked down upon because "you didn't go to college."

Offshoring of good jobs that stupid people can do is not helping, either.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

College degrees used to be worth more because less people had them. Now more people have them so they're worth less. I don't know why people don't understand this. Apparently the way to fix this is to put more people in college?

And do I have to play the game? I'm a mechanical engineer with 10 years of experience. I could get a masters in ME if I wanted to, work would pay for it, but I haven't really been interested in doing so. Should I just get one because in 10-15 years (I'm not retiring anytime soon) it will be a requirement? Like, it won't even matter what my masters focused on, just that I have one? I'd be falling into the continuing education trap, but maybe I should only worry about myself.

Not sure how old you are, but take my advice -- if your employer pays for it (especially if they pay 100% of it), do it. My last employer would've paid 100% of an MBA and I was foolish and didn't do it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Professional jobs don't bring in the income to pay for the debt you need for the credentials now. Lawyers are long gone. Pharmacy is probably headed this route in a few years. MBA? forget about it.

Why would you want a professional job if, after taxes and student loans you have LESS money than a freaking plumber or something. Something is wrong with the economy, duh. Trying to blame the person is very passe. In engineering you would tell someone to just work twice as hard, do a ton of internships, etc. Then turn the other way and say the person who went into law is a dumbass even if they had to work harder.

Always blaming the person instead of realizing college was never meant to be for career placement anyway, just education. If someone wants an English degree then that is fine. Its all the other people there deluded into thinking they are getting said professional job, as if it will pay off no matter how much debt they need to get there, and significantly raising the tuition cost as people bid against each other with the banks money.

Your viewpoint is illogical. First you say that "Professional jobs don't bring in the income to pay for the debt you need for the credentials now." and next you say "Always blaming the person instead of realizing college was never meant to be for career placement anyway, just education. If someone wants an English degree then that is fine." In both cases, you're going to likely be in a ton of debt but in the first case, you actually have a decent chance of making enough to pay off the debt. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a plumber or electrician, but if you must go to college, pick a major wisely.

This is a HUGE part of the reason we have a huge student loan crisis. People aren't looking at degrees as an investment and instead think any degree entitles them to a high-paying job. Nothing could be further from the truth. Contrary to what schools or the government will tell you, not all degrees are created equal. A BS in engineering is far more likely to get you a job than a Master's in some random liberal arts field (and the engineering degree is also harder to get too).

Sorry to be so vehement. There are alot of different expectations and opinions on it. It worked for alot of people and thats okay. I'm probably most angry at going to college without really thinking about it. My friends who went into trades did WAY better. If it was my own decision and not hearing 1,000 times over that I needed to go to college I really wouldn't have gone. I would have looked at the price and just laughed.

I was an academic star in high school and college. College was expected of me, but you know what? Sometimes, I think I should've just been an electrician and eventually opened my own business.

 

[sourceninja]

What I told my nephew was that he needs to look at the ROI of his chosen degree. Going to college is a business decision. You need to look at your career goals and compensation (realistically), you abilities (realistically), and the cost of the education that will take you there.

I work in education and I see kids spending a LOT of money on degrees that do nothing but let them check a box that says "I have a degree". The ROI on this type of degree is very low. I myself have not gotten a degree. I'm in a comfortable position in my field and in terms of salary my pay would only be slightly higher if I had a masters degree. The ROI for me is very low. I would only go to school if I was thinking of changing careers.

The decision isn't always the same for everyone. I personally think we need to stop focusing on college as the way forward and focus on trade schools. College should be for more advanced research/engineering positions. If we use IT as an example, there is very little reason 95% of IT positions need any college education. What they need is to learn the trade and this is done though hands on experience. A trade school could accomplish this with much less cost than a degree in computer science. If you wanted to engineer software for a living or design complex infrastructure, then you need college and that CS degree.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Sure it does. It lowers the starting salary for those well qualified candidates with bachelors degrees.

Ah, good point. They're throwing in the "Master's degree preferred" because even though they know it makes no difference, it gives them a reason to screw anyone they hire with just a Bachelor's degree.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Some of my friends and former co-workers are determined to get Master's degrees in various fields of IT and I can't fathom why. I got a 2 year degree from a tech school, cost me $10,000, and I'm doing great.

Education gets you in the door. What you do with it afterwards is what matters.

Depends on what you want to do in your career. If you want to be technical specialist or a consultant in IT your whole career, I agree that getting a Master's probably won't help and training is more vital.

If you want to go into management, however, it will be very tough without a minimum of a 4 year degree and even that is hard -- most places want tons of management experience at a minimum and more and more are wanting MBAs.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Lol, what? How is it hard to pay $800/month when you're making over $100k/yr? Unless you're incompetent with money, it's pretty easy. Shit man, $800/month isn't even $10k/yr. If you cannot afford $10k/yr with $100k+/yr job, then you're bad at finance. I don't care if you even save half of your income. That's still pathetic. Sounds like a fail story.

LOL, coming from someone so clueless, this is golden.

 

[Exterous]

Um, taxes?

Gen Y doesn't understand taxes. You get that big degree and get your big salary and have to pay off your big student loans and oh shit you have to actually pay your taxes if you make $100k

Even after taxes you'd still have ~$80,000 for a single person with minimal deductions. It's likely more given that you get a deduction based on interest paid on your loans. Given $800/mo payment that deduction is likely substantial.

Thanks UNO, as a fellow veteran that meant tons. Like i stated i am not the smartest, but i am a very critical and technical thinker.

Lots of good advice in his post - esp the experience. Colleges often have work placement programs and offer internships. If yours does I would definitely recommend you take part in them in addition to your studies. A lot also have a fair number of job positions in that field for students. Those are great places to get experience and potentially offers an inside track to a longer term job there.

A little more hard work in college will pay off larger dividends later. Lots of people starting out have a degree. Fewer have a degree and experience. Having both moves you a fair number of steps higher on the resume pile

 

[Axon]

Even after taxes you'd still have ~$80,000 for a single person with minimal deductions. It's likely more given that you get a deduction based on interest paid on your loans. Given $800/mo payment that deduction is likely substantial.

You cannot deduct the interest from your student loans if you make more than $75k per year. Even when you can, it's capped at $2,500 per year. I think this restriction needs to go. It's like being a 195 pound heavyweight and fighting a 250 pound dude.

 

[Axon]

Lol, what? How is it hard to pay $800/month when you're making over $100k/yr? Unless you're incompetent with money, it's pretty easy. Shit man, $800/month isn't even $10k/yr. If you cannot afford $10k/yr with $100k+/yr job, then you're bad at finance. I don't care if you even save half of your income. That's still pathetic. Sounds like a fail story.

I came, I saw, I rofled

I'd like to know what you think I actually take home per month before I tell you, just to see where your head is at. I wish we were in person together so you can't sit down and google it and try to figure it out for an hour before you respond.

 

[Axon]

Lots of good advice in his post - esp the experience. Colleges often have work placement programs and offer internships. If yours does I would definitely recommend you take part in them in addition to your studies. A lot also have a fair number of job positions in that field for students. Those are great places to get experience and potentially offers an inside track to a longer term job there.

A little more hard work in college will pay off larger dividends later. Lots of people starting out have a degree. Fewer have a degree and experience. Having both moves you a fair number of steps higher on the resume pile

I would completely be in favor of going to a co-op system across the board. I hire kids who are 22, 23, and they can barely make an eight hour day. That spoiled, entitled attitude needs to get cut out way earlier.

 

[sze5003]

Its been on the air for a long time now. But yes, collage education is essential, if we want to compete with India and China in white collar jobs then, yes, we need it. Does it have to be something like Devry? ofcourse not, the local state univ will do, but higher education is very important. Specially as be move further and further away from manual labor type jobs, more and more factories are being automated, most jobs in the future will unfortunately be white collar type...

Student loan is obviously a big issue that we need to address but that's no reason not to go to collage. And we need to ban loans for degrees that don't make sense like history and political science and maybe even "Information systems", whatever that means...

Information systems actually gets a lot of Jobs. It's formally IT like information science and technology. Everyone I know with these majors always gets a job. I've had no problems because I'm a developer.

 

[Exterous]

You cannot deduct the interest from your student loans if you make more than $75k per year.

My mistake - I looked at the married phase out table