Snowden allowed to leave Russia airport

[Thebobo]

We are apathetic because we live comfortable lives. George Carlin spoke about this in one of his routines.

yea want to see pissed off try and take my 60" tv away from me, otherwise don't bother me.

 

[dud]

So, we're stupid because we didn't already know this was happening, but the Russian and Chinese intelligence couldn't be expected to know this and were only informed by Snowden's revelations?

Jeebus, that's absurd.

Fern

Please do not include me in "we". If you wish to include yourself in the "we" who are stupid ... all power to you. Read your statement ... it itself is of the absurd. Snowden provided the details to what these "friends" already know. These forums are populated by technical types, especially IT professionals (you may not be one of them). The level of "shock" and "awe" displayed here to Snowden's revelations here borders on the absurd (as in your response).

Did we not bury our heads in the sand? Did we not think that the US Government might actually be doing what other countries are already doing within/without their own borders? The level of naivety here is simply amazing.

The number of people calling Snowden a "whistleblower" is simply amazing. The words of P.T. Barnum ring so clearly now ... "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute".

🙁

 

[shady28]

So... Anyone else notice how the day after Snowden hit the top of the US news headlines, suddenly we get this in our headlines :

US issues global travel alert over al-Qaeda threat


How convenient.

 

[mistercrabby]

I'm going home from work tonight, have a cerveza (or three) and catch up with my family. A life of my choosing. Snowden is going to be a virtual prisoner under constant control of the Russian government, at the whim of its president. He's not going home to his family, perhaps ever. Snowden chose this. Noone "painted him into a corner". The reaction of the United States was predictable. As I said earlier, this shows his true colors. Beyond the curiosity of the drama as it unfolds, I waste no feelings on him or the others like him.

Time to head home, in the country of my choosing. Now Snowden can get used to living in the shitty, broken down, autocracy that it is now the home of his choosing.

 

[Fern]

Please do not include me in "we".

That's silly. You couldn't possible be included in the "we" given the context of our discussion.

Did we not bury our heads in the sand? Did we not think that the US Government might actually be doing what other countries are already doing within/without their own borders? The level of naivety here is simply amazing.

No, we did not "bury our heads in the sand".

The Patriot Act ("PA") and related legislation was analyzed and discussed almost endlessly by many. It was a matter of great concern and deliberation.

Not even the authors of the legislation envisioned this. And, as I have noted before here, bipartisan efforts were subsequently made to further 'tighten up' the PA to prevent this sort of thing.

So no, no one could fairly have seen this coming. Heck, if the authors couldn't how could anyone else?

To be sure there were those who did claim this might happen, but they were hooted down as tin foil hat types.

If you wish to include yourself in the "we" who are stupid ... all power to you. Read your statement ... it itself is of the absurd. Snowden provided the details to what these "friends" already know. These forums are populated by technical types, especially IT professionals (you may not be one of them).

I don't see where he actually provided much in the way of new info to other countries etc. The shocking part of his revelation isn't that data is being captured; it's that it's OUR data. Foreigners abroad have no constitutional rights. The legislation was advertised (and intended if Congresspersons are to be believed) at that time as authorizing spying on such foreigners. Now if they're shocked by Snowden's revelations, their heads were buried in the sand.

The level of "shock" and "awe" displayed here to Snowden's revelations here borders on the absurd (as in your response).

Well, we disagree. I don't think the level of outrage is yet sufficient given the egregious and wholesale violation of our rights under the 4th.

The number of people calling Snowden a "whistleblower" is simply amazing. The words of P.T. Barnum ring so clearly now ... "There's a Sucker Born Every Minute".

🙁

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but I'll note your argument seems contradictory. If everybody 'knew', or should have known, this was being done Snowden's simply saying what was common knowledge. So, he's no whistleblower.

OTOH, you continue to insist he's a traitor who has hurt our country.

It's one or the other. It can't be both.

Fern

 

[Darwin333]

No doubt he would be given work, but the Russians wouldn’t trust him near anything sensitive, Savodnik said. The young man who might have thought he was changing the world can now expect to be a welder, or a janitor.

“It’s a life somewhere in provincial Russia, far away from everything you may consider stimulating,” Savodnik said. “It’s not a very happy existence.”"


... and my favorite: "So, yes, they’ll probably give him asylum, but they’ll make it as unpleasant as possible, he said. “And eventually he’ll turn up at the U.S. Embassy begging to go back home.”"


Oh, the irony ...

This whole situation is like a bad soap opera ... I predict an interesting and "ironic" future for Mr. Snowden ...

Who in their right mind would prefer prison over being a janitor in a small town? I couldn't imagine showing up at an embassy and begging to be made an example of by the US Justice system, especially given the administrations efforts to get him back and railroad him.

And I am not sure how this works but can't he still seek asylum in other countries that might be more hospitable?

 

[Darwin333]

He took an oath ...

He broke that oath ...

He lied ...

He ran to a country that is at "odds" with the US. Some would say that we are already at war (in some form) with China.

He then ran to another country that is (for the most part) anti-American. Putin used Snowden to his own advantage against this country.


Every word out of Snowden's mouth embarrasses the US. Take a close look at him and his actions ... he is a liar, a coward ... and he has (and possibly will continue to) hurt his country. His intentions may have been honorable ... but they have been just the opposite.

The Presidents oath of office:

“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

The 4th amendment, which I should remind you is part of said Constitution:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Oath of office for Congress:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

So yes, there are most definitely parties who have defied their oath and in such have become, imo, traitors to the United States of America by knowingly and willingly engaging, at the Federal government level, direct and unquestionable unconstitutional activity. Anyone that can comprehend small words knows this, if you don't quite get it yet I suggest you keep reading the 4th, which I posted above, until such time as you do. A law that does an end around on the constitution which by very nature is unchallengable with the courts goes against the very foundation of this country and in such is an attack on the ideals and foundation of this country. I call that traitorous activity.

Cry me a fucking river that it embarrasses said assholes who are willfully pissing over the oath of office they took.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
And I am not sure how this works but can't he still seek asylum in other countries that might be more hospitable?

I believe he can.

However based on previous events (some SA president's airplane was forced down in Switz or somewhere) there may be a practical problem in getting other countries' permission to use their airspace. I suspect if the countries surrounding Russia were aware of Snowden's presence on a plane they'd force it down and hand him over to us.

I suppose he might go by ship or try to 'sneak out' by plane.

Fern

 

[Gintaras]

The Patriot Act ("PA") and related legislation was analyzed and discussed almost endlessly by many. It was a matter of great concern and deliberation.



Fern

A word a Patriot politicians start using when they need something from people of/or any given country.

Last, it was mostly used in Germany, in 1933-1945 and USSR/Russia in 1941-1945...

What a Patriot Act does mean?
Maybe we could remember a quote from one, who needed a lot of patriots...about "a lack of patriots":

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

 

[Olikan]

i really dont see the big whoop. Govt spying, no shit, havent they been spying on us since the discovery of electricity? Or is it because some dumb politician said the US inst spying?

even God was spying Adam and Eve 😀

 

[HeXen]

I think we should leave him alone. Our govt was doing something shady at best with our tax dollars.
It's ironic to me, we encourage whistle blowers for companies that do shady stuff, our govt does it and were supposed to be so upset and angry if anyone spills the beans? I don't see how the info of them spying on our communications is really aiding the terrorists...what are they gonna do, use pigeons to communicate? Or am I just way off here.
So now, thanks to him, congress is questioning it's use as are many citizens. This country is so back asswards.

 

[Sinsear]

Good; now he's outta the airport there's a better chance he can get a bullet in the back of his head.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Only in an immoral society would a moral act be considered a crime. Snowden did the right thing and should be applauded for his ability to take the hard road when many of us would rather just "tow the line".

 

[tboo]

The leader of Russia, where Snowden is holed up, is a trained ex-KGB operative. The leader of the US, who wants Snowden back to face justice, is a highly trained community organizer. This is panning out exactly as I thought it would.

 

[poofyhairguy]

He only got a year of asylum in Russia. I could still see him taking a private flight (staying in international airspace) to an Iceland or Latin America to spend out his days.

 

[Doppel]

He only got a year of asylum in Russia. I could still see him taking a private flight (staying in international airspace) to an Iceland or Latin America to spend out his days.

I assume it's up for renewal at the end of that, but yeah ultimately he could now go from Russia to anywhere in the world, so he has a year to get asylum wherever and as long as the plane doesn't land no risk of being intercepted anywhere.

 

[HeXen]

Good; now he's outta the airport there's a better chance he can get a bullet in the back of his head.

Why? Because our govt used your tax dollars to spy on you whenever they please without telling anyone?
Maybe we should allow the CIA to just randomly kill anyone that doesn't think the way they want while we are at it.
I'm sure if this was some mass mind control program or cloning citizens and killing off the originals then we would be hailing Snowden as a hero.
idiots. Point is we shouldn't allow the govt to have control, it's supposed to be us in control although that hasn't really been the case in decades, just an illusion.

 

[Double Trouble]

I find the demonization of Snowden and his actions appalling. The way the US government has behaved subsequent to the leaks has made it abundantly clear that Snowden had no choice but to go to a place like Russia that would not bow to US pressure to hand him over. Like a 3 year old whose toy was taken away, the government is throwing a temper tantrum over the leaks, attempting to demonize the whistle blower instead of taking a look at their own abusive actions.

 

[Gintaras]

Good; now he's outta the airport there's a better chance he can get a bullet in the back of his head.

That's what an abortion leftover can say...

 

[UglyCasanova]

Do you think there is any correlation to the US response to the supposed terror attacks and shutting down the embassies and the NSA leaks? The government itchy to show how it's internet surveillance is being used against the terrorists? Or is it all just coincidence?

I've never been one to wear a tin foil hat, but I don't trust anything said or done by them anymore.

 

[Fern]

Do you think there is any correlation to the US response to the supposed terror attacks and shutting down the embassies and the NSA leaks? The government itchy to show how it's internet surveillance is being used against the terrorists? Or is it all just coincidence?
-snip-

If that's their plan, I think it a stupid one.

We're all up in arms because they're violating our 4th Amendment rights. "We" being US citizens. IMO, running surveillance on foreign people living outside the USA has nothing to do with the 4th. Just because the fed govt thinks they need to capture all of AQ's digital communications has ZERO to do with justifying the capture of all our digital info.

Fern

 

[shady28]

Do you think there is any correlation to the US response to the supposed terror attacks and shutting down the embassies and the NSA leaks? The government itchy to show how it's internet surveillance is being used against the terrorists? Or is it all just coincidence?

I've never been one to wear a tin foil hat, but I don't trust anything said or done by them anymore.

If I recall correctly, that happened the same day as Snowden got asylum. One hour, Snowden was top of the news, the next the embassies were closing.

Coincidence? Maybe.

 

[shady28]

Do you think there is any correlation to the US response to the supposed terror attacks and shutting down the embassies and the NSA leaks? The government itchy to show how it's internet surveillance is being used against the terrorists? Or is it all just coincidence?

I've never been one to wear a tin foil hat, but I don't trust anything said or done by them anymore.

Well, it appears that tin foil hats are in order.

From the NY Times :

"Some analysts and Congressional officials suggested Friday that emphasizing a terrorist threat now was a good way to divert attention from the uproar over the N.S.A.'s data-collection programs, and that if it showed the intercepts had uncovered a possible plot, even better."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/w...mpt-us-terror-warning.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&

 

[gevorg]

black flag would be so convenient right now