snow thread...**now with vid of underinflated tires and cold engine warming up**

[DisgruntledVirus]

Soon you too will know what its like to touch a woman

I wouldn't hold my breath

 

[ShawnD1]

Never learned to drive, huh?

Are you honestly arguing that FWD is not better than RWD?

FWD tires slip:
Car doesn't accelerate. Nothing happens

RWD tires slip:
Tail swings around. You'll completely lose control if this happens while turning.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...ing_characteristics_oversteer_pg2.html?cat=27

In a RWD car, all of the power is sent to the rear wheels, leaving the front ones free to do the steering and braking. This usually yields a great increase in dry and wet pavement grip, as well as enhanced driving characteristcs
(better steering feel, etc.) Because there is more weight in
the back due to the driveshaft and other parts, the car is, generally speaking, more balanced. When pushed to the limit, RWD cars oversteer. This is a motion often referred to as "fish-tailing" or "power-sliding". This occurs when a RWD has reached it's peak amount of grip in a corner, and the driver either quickly lifts off or sharply applies the throttle. This will push the back end of the car outwards, which requires the driver to do two things: counter-steer and manage throttle. The driver must steer in the opposite direction that the front of his car is facing whilst applying enough throttle in order to maintain the sliding motion.

Wet roads will decrease the amount of grip and therefore make it much easier to oversteer.

With that said, it is apparent that RWD cars are for sporting enthusiasts only. While the benefits of driving under normal conditions exist, they aren't great enough to warrant a choice over FWD if one never drives in a sporting manner. FWD cars are usually cheaper, more fuel efficient, and weigh less than RWD cars. They also perform better in the snow, where RWD is extremely difficult to control.

You know how most vehicles in the ditch are trucks or sport utility vehicles? Both of those are RWD vehicles. Cheap trucks will just be RWD and the more expensive ones are RWD with a button that enables 4WD. SUV's are the exact same. If FWD sucked balls, we would expect to see a lot more Honda Civics and Chevy Cobalts in the ditch.

 

[fleabag]

I bet that's hard on a bike...

Damn, I never tried it on a bicycle and that was always something I had always wanted to try! Well, at the very least, I didn't do it because my bike needs the brake caliper to be rebuilt and I haven't bothered to do it since I don't really know how. (Disc brakes)

Still haven't responded over in the Garage where you said that older Subaru Foresters only came with auto transmissions, yet I linked you the very first Subaru's only came with a manual transmission. 😀 Idiot

But I did respond, why don't you go look for that response..

 

[Capt Caveman]

Damn, I never tried it on a bicycle and that was always something I had always wanted to try! Well, at the very least, I didn't do it because my bike needs the brake caliper to be rebuilt and I haven't bothered to do it since I don't really know how. (Disc brakes)



But I did respond, why don't you go look for that response..

You're kidding me that you don't know how to work on bike Disc brake calipers? An Einstein like yourself that is always working on cars should find working on a bike easy and they are(former bike mechanic).

And no, you never did respond to my post. What would you respond with? Admit that you're wrong again?

 

[fleabag]

You're kidding me that you don't know how to work on bike Disc brake calipers? An Einstein like yourself that is always working on cars should find working on a bike easy and they are(former bike mechanic).

And no, you never did respond to my post. What would you respond with? Admit that you're wrong again?

I need to rebuild them and since Magura doesn't have any rebuild kits for them because they're not intended to be rebuilt, my repair of them isn't going to be easy. Currently the piston is stuck because I think it got pushed in at an angle somehow, so I need to get the piston out and then I need to replace the piston seal with another one but I don't know where to get one. It's a circular but square ring.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Are you honestly arguing that FWD is not better than RWD?

FWD tires slip:
Car doesn't accelerate. Nothing happens

RWD tires slip:
Tail swings around. You'll completely lose control if this happens while turning.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...ing_characteristics_oversteer_pg2.html?cat=27


You know how most vehicles in the ditch are trucks or sport utility vehicles? Both of those are RWD vehicles. Cheap trucks will just be RWD and the more expensive ones are RWD with a button that enables 4WD. SUV's are the exact same. If FWD sucked balls, we would expect to see a lot more Honda Civics and Chevy Cobalts in the ditch.

It's actually not that simple. The reason FWD tends to be better is because it has the weight of the engine and transmission over the front wheels so it keeps traction better due to that. FWD isn't always a good thing and you still have to know how to properly manage the way the car will react. Since the front wheels do most of the braking, relying on them for drive, braking, and steering obviously creates an issue, especially in conditions where overall traction will be lessened. Plus with plenty of FWD cars (light weight ones), the back end can slide around really easily. Regardless of what drive setup it is, you still have to know how to control it.

 

[DrPizza]

Actually I have, even better I've driven on hilly, snow and ice covered roads with steep road grades, far steeper than probably you've ever seen...

It doesn't count on skis... at Lake Tahoe... in the winter. Glad you were able to return to a warm car when you were done. I think you're so full of shit that YOU are now inflated to sidewall. 😛

 

[darkswordsman17]

It doesn't count on skis... at Lake Tahoe... in the winter. Glad you were able to return to a warm car when you were done. I think you're so full of shit that YOU are now inflated to sidewall. 😛

Something tells me we're getting fleabagged and this is another case of him living through his dad.

 

[fleabag]

It doesn't count on skis... at Lake Tahoe... in the winter. Glad you were able to return to a warm car when you were done. I think you're so full of shit that YOU are now inflated to sidewall. 😛

I've never driven myself to Lake Tahoe before despite my friend living somewhere near there. I plan on driving over and meeting him at his place when I get my Civic...

 

[SparkyJJO]

It's actually not that simple. The reason FWD tends to be better is because it has the weight of the engine and transmission over the front wheels so it keeps traction better due to that. FWD isn't always a good thing and you still have to know how to properly manage the way the car will react. Since the front wheels do most of the braking, relying on them for drive, braking, and steering obviously creates an issue, especially in conditions where overall traction will be lessened. Plus with plenty of FWD cars (light weight ones), the back end can slide around really easily. Regardless of what drive setup it is, you still have to know how to control it.

Bingo.

Doesn't matter if you have FWD, RWD, 4WD, AWD, or whatever. If you don't know what you're doing, you lose.

I like my RWD car in the snow, personally. Even better now with the posi unit I just got. When the drive wheels slip, I don't lose steering too. Besides, RWD is more fun 😀

 

[DrPizza]

RWD tires slip:
Tail swings around. You'll completely lose control if this happens while turning.

RWD are fun to drive on slippery roads in the city, especially turning by doing exactly what you're describing - intentionally swinging out the tail end by spinning the tires & losing traction with the rear end. Nearly perfect 90 degree turns with a little practice, rather than following an arc around a turn.

You people really need to find an unplowed, slippery parking lot to spend a half hour in. Great for teaching newer drivers how to react to losing control on the snow. After a while, you can "lose control", but know exactly how the car is going to react. As I believe I said somewhere above in the thread - #1 reason people go off the road is that they panic. Their car starts fishtailing a little bit & they put on the brakes which makes the situation worse, particularly with rear wheel drive.

 

[DrPizza]

I've never driven myself to Lake Tahoe before despite my friend living somewhere near there. I plan on driving over and meeting him at his place when I get my Civic...

Probably because you don't own a car to drive that far? And, your parents don't trust you to drive their vehicle that far in the winter. Hmmm? As a parent, I can say that the #1 reason for any claim my kids could make about where and where not they've driven comes down to where I allow them to drive. It's not "despite their friends", it's because their parents say "No. You are not borrowing the car to drive there."

 

[IronWing]

I've never driven myself to Lake Tahoe before despite my friend living somewhere near there. I plan on driving over and meeting him at his place when I get my Civic...

Listen up kid. I've driven out of Reno toward Lake Tahoe. Snow was piling up. Visions of the Danner Party were swept away with each flick of the wipers. The wind began to howl. With many years of experience driving in sub zero temperatures, heavy snow, ice, across frozen lakes, I knew that I possessed the skills, experience, and insights to make all the right moves. When I reached the turn off from I-80 down into Tahoe I reacted instinctively. I turned tail and got me and my crappy little rental car the hell back down into Reno. The rest is in the song.

 

[x-alki]

Rudeguy, funny vids!
Was your spare inflated to sidewall too?

 

[ShawnD1]

You people really need to find an unplowed, slippery parking lot to spend a half hour in. Great for teaching newer drivers how to react to losing control on the snow. After a while, you can "lose control", but know exactly how the car is going to react. As I believe I said somewhere above in the thread - #1 reason people go off the road is that they panic. Their car starts fishtailing a little bit & they put on the brakes which makes the situation worse, particularly with rear wheel drive.

Very true. My first car was a 1992 Ford Tempo and I bagged the shit out of it. Go into a parking lot at 3am, go maybe 40km/h, e-brake it so the car is sliding sideways 😀
My brother also showed me how to properly e-brake or fishtail to make a nice 180 degree turn.

 

[manowar821]

Driving in the snow, rain, or dirt is like home to me. I learned to drive off-road before I was legally allowed to have a license.

That being said, the way people drive makes me want to vomit.

 

[Red Squirrel]

LOL you call that lot of snow?

I wish that's all there was on my car every morning, and the roads look very good. I'd easily drive those with summer tires. You'll actually ruin snow tires on those roads. There's even sections where pavement is bare.

Edit: Got a bit of snow today as well. Had to use the car so cleared it off twice today. Now that it's late out the plows are passing by so the roads are very nice, just packed snow. I prefer winter roads then summer TBH. No pot holes.

 

[Capt Caveman]

LOL you call that lot of snow?

I wish that's all there was on my car every morning, and the roads look very good. I'd easily drive those with summer tires. You'll actually ruin snow tires on those roads. There's even sections where pavement is bare.

No, he never said that.

 

[Red Squirrel]

No, he never said that.

I was actually referring to the OP but I also just noticed how old this thread is and I already replied lol.

 

[rh71]

it should snow more

 

[destrekor]

RWD are fun to drive on slippery roads in the city, especially turning by doing exactly what you're describing - intentionally swinging out the tail end by spinning the tires & losing traction with the rear end. Nearly perfect 90 degree turns with a little practice, rather than following an arc around a turn.

You people really need to find an unplowed, slippery parking lot to spend a half hour in. Great for teaching newer drivers how to react to losing control on the snow. After a while, you can "lose control", but know exactly how the car is going to react. As I believe I said somewhere above in the thread - #1 reason people go off the road is that they panic. Their car starts fishtailing a little bit & they put on the brakes which makes the situation worse, particularly with rear wheel drive.

most definitely.

I did just as you stated too. Old, mostly abandoned, mall parking lot. Actually just drove around the outside loop when there was a few inches of fresh powder, and there was basically complete open areas everywhere, especially at the intersections. I did manage to find the curb as my tires smacked into one as I slid meeting the curb with both of my passenger side tires.

It's great fun! But more importantly, just as you stated, a learning tool.

The most important thing a driver needs to learn, is everything about the vehicle they choose. Every slight hiccup, every weight transfer characteristic - it's all about knowing exactly what your vehicle is doing at any moment.

When driving down US23/OH15 toward Columbus from Toledo, as I was moving back onto campus following Winter Break (this was a few years ago), there was probably 5 or so inches of white powder completely covering the highway. Traffic was basically 1 lane, sparse too. The left lane was also just terrible, mostly untouched by vehicles and getting into it meant a nice drive over different snow mound heights. A few vehicles would come flying past in the left lane, I was terrified for them.

All along the highway, mostly a straight shot with a few turns here and there, there are ditches on both sides. For a good portion of our adventure, there was at least one vehicle every mile in the ditch, on one side or the other. I affectionately refer to this passage of our journey as The Gauntlet.

I was driving 35-40mph, following my dad. I lost my back-end of my RWD Dakota 3 times, completely fishtailing and swinging back and forth like a pendulum as I regained control of the back-end.

Honestly, most of the time driving in snow, I basically feel like the back-end is constantly on the verge of having 0 traction. I'll admit during turns the back end swings along, and I cannot accelerate much so when turning into traffic I often have to wait for quite a clearing as I absolutely cannot get into traffic speed from a turn if there is snow everywhere, not in any short time (though rain I can do this much faster, obviously).

Learning how the vehicle behaves, what it feels like with little traction, and what actions are necessary to maintain control even without traction... I am amazed these aren't required tasks.

It's crucial to understand what your vehicle is always telling you - you just need to know how to interpret the feedback given, and react accordingly.
Because like I said, I've lost traction, but I have never lost control. I say: You need to know your surroundings, the amount of space all around you, always grossly overestimate reaction time and distance, and use that as a starting point.

I cannot count the number of times I'll lose traction and my back end swings out a bit when driving on non-plowed residential streets. And I've had times where parked cars just continually creep into that "oh shit" zone, but not panicking is important. Once you learn your vehicle and yourself, it's kind of a trust situation. Panicking can often lead to overreacting in those last moments, whereas just knowing the situation, letting go of the gas, not braking, and steering correctly, will be the actions that get you back facing the correct way and regaining traction. There is a fine line between trust in those moments, and overconfidence.

well that was far lengthier than I anticipated. Oh well. *click*

 

[jlee]

LOL you call that lot of snow?

I wish that's all there was on my car every morning, and the roads look very good. I'd easily drive those with summer tires. You'll actually ruin snow tires on those roads. There's even sections where pavement is bare.

Edit: Got a bit of snow today as well. Had to use the car so cleared it off twice today. Now that it's late out the plows are passing by so the roads are very nice, just packed snow. I prefer winter roads then summer TBH. No pot holes.

Snow tires are made out of a softer compound designed to provided better traction in cold weather. Running them on cold pavement isn't going to "ruin" them in any spectacular fashion, and they will provide better traction than an all-season.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/safetyBelow45.dos

 

[rhino56]

I lived in MI for most of my life but now im in OK, it's really sad here, we got a little snow the other day like maybe 2-3 inches and there were cars off the road everywhere. lol

there was not one vehicle i did not pass in my astro awd on the highway, i was doing about 65 or so, everyone else was between 15 and 45 mph at about the fastest.

 

[slag]

All these retards who think 4WD or AWD makes them able to drive fast in the snow. These are the ones now-a-days you see crashing in bad weather. It give s false sense of security.

No, 4wd really does help driving faster in the snow because it grabs better. Its those idiots in the low slung fwd or light rwd cars that sit and spin at the stop lights while I'm waiting behind them, wondering why they dont have snow tires or weight in the bed of their truck that piss me off. GTFOTR so others can actually get by and get where they are going. Its all about being prepared.

I dug out a guy on Christmas day who was driving a civic in town that kept piling up snow in front of his car and wasn't able to get traction. Don't get on the road if your car cant at least get around because you endanger everyone else who is capable and able to get around.

 

[MotF Bane]

lol@fleabag.