Sneak Peak of Tegra 4 (Codename Wayne)

Discussion in 'Mobile Devices & Gadgets' started by sontin, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    Well according to BenSkyWalker silicon is final and T4 is a shipping product that can be compared to A6. We can only hope one day we will all have read as many EE books as him. For now I'll just have to continue working in the industry itself.

    The fact is everyone compares GLBenchmark, and if you have silicon back you are not in early development stages. Either Nvidia have underclocked their dev boards massively (which is odd since you can stick active cooling on dev boards very easily) or must have some seriously broken hardware/drivers at this stage if they are going to pull out a 50% performance increase on such a simple benchmark that they will have been working on optimising since day 1. Generally if silicon is that bad it would never leave the premises either, in fact you wouldn't even bother going to silicon at that stage

    BSW: Where are you getting these poor iPhone battery figures from? It is consistently near the top on every test Anand has run?
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/13
    The only weak point of the iPhone is talk time, something that is irrelevant in terms of CPU/GPU and completely due to its smaller battery. This is Apple's design choice, and they clearly pull it off with a far superior SoC. If Apple decide to go down the large battery route they have far more headroom to play with than the current battery monsters.

    Look how crap the T3 based HTC One X does though in GPU tests. Hilarious. Completed dominated in performance and power. And guess what is on top with 3x more battery life than the T3, an SGX 540. iPhone 4S completely destroys T3 and is a faster GPU too and was available before T3 also!

    Now I await your logic that because the Razr i has a slower GPU that is why it has a 3x advantage over T3. Extending that though should T3 have at least 3x the battery life of the iPhone 5?
     
  2. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    What exactly did T3 come out and beat, Transformer prime could match the iPad 2 on a few things and lost on the rest, is that your definition of winning?

    BSW: When do you expect T4 to actually launch and be available for Project Shield and further to that when do you expect non Nvidia customers to have it? The reason I ask is because something weird happened with the T4 announcement. A chip that is supposedly next generation and available for mass production by March/April in my estimates was announced, but there was no mention big licensees or devices outside of camp Nvidia. Don't you find that a little odd? Nvidia's usual stance is to shout from the rooftops about how great they are at every opportunity.

    Also since your electronic engineering knowledge is so good, how do you expect T4 to provide memory bandwidth to all 72 shader cores? Wider memory buses, higher memory bus clocks?
     
    #102 djgandy, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  3. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Diamond Member

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    Why would the A5X be old news? It beat Tegra 3's GPU by a fair margin. T4 looks like it barely beats A6X, if it does at all.

    T4 is newer, it should beat A6X by the same margins or more to be impressive.

    Let me break it down for you since you have a hard time following.

    You originally said that the iPhone's battery strengths are due to its screen size.

    My rebuttal is that, yeah it has a smaller screen, but it also has a smaller battery due to its size.

    Now the iPhone has sub optimal battery life? Lol!

    Too bad T3 didn't stomp Apple. T3's CPU was impressive, but its GPU wasn't. T4 seems to follow the same path.
     
  4. sontin

    sontin Diamond Member

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    So, what's the difference to Samsung and Qualcomm? :\
     
  5. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #105 BenSkywalker, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  6. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Diamond Member

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    Now you're backpedaling. Not sure how you came to the conclusion the A5X is old news compared to T3. IF Tegra4 is marginally faster than A6X, I'm not impressed.

    I never said that the screen isn't the biggest drain.

    Because of its huge battery. *golf clap*.

    Never said that either. I only said that iPhones generally have better battery life as a whole.

     
    #106 MrX8503, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  7. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #107 BenSkywalker, Jan 16, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  8. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Diamond Member

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    Uh...the A5X's GPU is a lot faster than T3's GPU.

    You just asked me if I'm denying if the screen causes the most battery drain.

    I'm telling you that I never said that it didn't.

    So the iPhone doesn't have good battery life, its just that the majority of Android phones have terrible battery life? Lol ok.
     
  9. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    Ah whats the point. Apparently MWC is a launch for T4 despite no availability of products. Apparently Tegra 3 was available 6 months before the transformer prime, despite both being launched in Q4 2011.

    Also the memory interface question was a trap, but I knew you'd fall for it. Don't you think that Tegra will be slightly starved of bandwidth for intense workloads? 4 CPU cores + a fairly primitive IMR GPU?
     
  10. grkM3

    grkM3 Golden Member

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    Mx do you still think the soc in the iphone 5 is not there a15 design?
     
  11. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #111 BenSkywalker, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  12. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Diamond Member

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    We all know that. Are you really not following? T4 is coming out after A6X and I'm saying that if its GPU is close to the A6X, then its not impressive.

    That makes absolutely no sense. When you do comparisons, you compare the same class, in this case, SMARTPHONES. If you want to talk about dumb phones, make a thread about how it has better battery life than smartphones. I'm sure people won't laugh at ya.
     
  13. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    March 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad_2
    Dec 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee_Pad_Transformer_Prime

    It's just too easy. And apparently it is everyone else in a RDF.


    Well thats all lovely. Let's actually come back to the real world again, where T4 has dual 32-bit LPDDR3 @ 800 MHz i.e 12.8 GB/s. How is it going to feed all those ALUs? I guess at least they have cut bandwidth requirements by ~35% by chopping all the precision from the Pixel Shaders, haha.
     
    #113 djgandy, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  14. runawayprisoner

    runawayprisoner Platinum Member

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    A15 is more power-hungry than Apple's Swift cores. Apple made a custom core that's more akin to Qualcomm's Snapdragon.

    Thus the SoC in the iPhone 5 is not A15. It's just faster than whatever they had in there before.

    But even going by preliminary benchmarks (of early T4 samples), it looks like A6 in the iPhone 5 is still about on par with T4 at least with graphics performance. Everything else be damned until we get more coverage.
     
  15. grkM3

    grkM3 Golden Member

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    waiting to see how t4 does against the exynos 5 as its said samsungs 28nm will consume 70% less power then the exynos 5 dual core in the nexus 10.

    its also getting a povervr gpu that is clocked at 533 vs the iphone 5 266 speeds.

    If anything the exynos octo core is the soc of 2013 to get
     
    #115 grkM3, Jan 17, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2013
  16. lothar

    lothar Diamond Member

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    Way too early to speculate for the entire year of 2013.
    My personal guess is that if Samsung doesn't launch Mali T658 with Exynos, they'll be behind somebody.
    Don't know if that sombody will be Nvidia, Qualcomm, or both.

    Of course if Mali T658 isn't ready on time for the Galaxy S IV launch, Samsung may "partially" redeem themselves by launching it with the Galaxy Note III.

    Where are we on this chart?
    [​IMG]
     
  17. dagamer34

    dagamer34 Platinum Member

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    The chart isn't really accurate anymore. We've already got quad-core A7 chips which shouldn't come out until next year and the 4xA15/4xA7 doesn't even exist.

    Thing is, you can stick as many cores as you want on a chip (within reason) because die area is largely a function of cost, not chip design.
     
  18. lothar

    lothar Diamond Member

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    Which quad core A7 chips did we get? If you're referring to the one in the Galaxy Note II and International Galaxy S III, I think that is quad core A9 not A7.

    Isn't 4xA15/4xA7 Samsung's new rumored Exynos Octacore SoC?
    If so, then it does exist in some lab somewhere out there and will probably be launched in Korea sometime in April.
     
  19. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #119 BenSkywalker, Jan 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  20. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    I think that chart is dead. http://www.arm.com/products/multimedia/mali-graphics-plus-gpu-compute/index.php

    Also it is kinda odd that they thought Mali-658 would still be going in 2016. You'd generally assume next gen by that point
     
  21. djgandy

    djgandy Member

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    You think they'll spin another SoC with a DDR2 memory interface? Doesn't that defeat the object of creating a next generation chip? Maybe they will in a years time, but we're talking about what is being launched initially here. Who said they dropped DDR3L?


    I don't think that clock speed is the maximum memory clockspeed for all eternity. The launch devices will be at those clocks though. Lets focus on what is going to be launched and the product that was announced, not what might exist in 5 years time eh? LPDDR3 is in its infancy, do you think we are ready to ramp clocks already? The power penalty of running at 1066MHz will be huge.




    This is Nvidias latest chip, you think they could have at least gone FP24. Latest chip won't even support GLES 3.0? Compute is out of the question too, although that is not really a biggy.

    How does T4 being bandwidth limited imply that T3 was? T3 has 12 ALUs vs 72 for T4. I am struggling to follow your logic here. Twice the bandwidth, six times as many ALUs. T3 has 3x the bandwidth per ALU.
     
  22. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Diamond Member

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    You need a percentage to determine the difference between marginal and significant?

    Do you want to include 10 years of phones or the Razr Maxx to prove that the iPhone has sub optimal battery life. Seems like you want it both ways.
     
  23. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #123 BenSkywalker, Jan 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  24. dagamer34

    dagamer34 Platinum Member

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    Quad-core A7: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6604/more-details-on-allwinners-a31-quad-core-a7-soc
     
  25. BenSkywalker

    BenSkywalker Elite Member

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    #125 BenSkywalker, Jan 18, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013