Smoking cannabis virtually doubles the risk of developing mental illnesses

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well after an experience I had last night at a party I can testify the Jello Shots are definately more harmful than any pot I ever smoked! When was the last time you've seen adults dance to that stupid Banana song after smoking reefer?:laugh:

:laugh:

:thumbsup:

 

[2cpuminimum]

1. Correllation does not prove causation.
2. Problems with driving under the influence would be less common if a first offense resulted in life imprisonment
3. Legalizing marijuana does not mean legalizing driving under the influence of it.
4. Marijuana is not chemically addictive, unlike tobacco and alchohol
5. Drunk driving rates went UP when the drinking age was raised to 21.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
1. Correllation does not prove causation.
2. Problems with driving under the influence would be less common if a first offense resulted in life imprisonment
3. Legalizing marijuana does not mean legalizing driving under the influence of it.
4. Marijuana is not chemically addictive, unlike tobacco and alchohol
5. Drunk driving rates went UP when the drinking age was raised to 21.

good to think about.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
1. Correllation does not prove causation.
2. Problems with driving under the influence would be less common if a first offense resulted in life imprisonment
3. Legalizing marijuana does not mean legalizing driving under the influence of it.
4. Marijuana is not chemically addictive, unlike tobacco and alchohol
5. Drunk driving rates went UP when the drinking age was raised to 21.

In a non-biased comparison between the harms/benefits of marijuana and alcohol, pot wins hands down. For this reason the anti-marijuana folks hate it when the two are compared, since most of them drink alcohol and are in denial that they themselves are drug users.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: hscorpio
In a non-biased comparison between the harms/benefits of marijuana and alcohol, pot wins hands down. For this reason the anti-marijuana folks hate it when the two are compared, since most of them drink alcohol and are in denial that they themselves are drug users.

And they're nowhere near as much into denial as the tobacco addicts. :roll:

 

[Crimson]

I'm starting to learn a lot why people in this forum act the way they do..

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Crimson
I'm starting to learn a lot why people in this forum act the way they do..

Don't you wish it were just that easy?

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: hscorpio

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
1. Correllation does not prove causation.
2. Problems with driving under the influence would be less common if a first offense resulted in life imprisonment
3. Legalizing marijuana does not mean legalizing driving under the influence of it.
4. Marijuana is not chemically addictive, unlike tobacco and alchohol
5. Drunk driving rates went UP when the drinking age was raised to 21.

In a non-biased comparison between the harms/benefits of marijuana and alcohol, pot wins hands down. For this reason the anti-marijuana folks hate it when the two are compared, since most of them drink alcohol and are in denial that they themselves are drug users.

the functional change to society isn't the same as a thought experiment ware we replace alcohol use with marijuana use.

please, think.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: hscorpio

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
1. Correllation does not prove causation.
2. Problems with driving under the influence would be less common if a first offense resulted in life imprisonment
3. Legalizing marijuana does not mean legalizing driving under the influence of it.
4. Marijuana is not chemically addictive, unlike tobacco and alchohol
5. Drunk driving rates went UP when the drinking age was raised to 21.

In a non-biased comparison between the harms/benefits of marijuana and alcohol, pot wins hands down. For this reason the anti-marijuana folks hate it when the two are compared, since most of them drink alcohol and are in denial that they themselves are drug users.

the functional change to society isn't the same as a thought experiment ware we replace alcohol use with marijuana use.

please, think.

What thought experiment? Newsflash: Marijauana use is widespread and will continue to be so despite it's legal status. There is no reason not to compare the two drugs just because one is legal and the other is not.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

one can not be replaced with the other, the number of marijuana users is about 1/10th that of alcohol users. to compare the two without pointing this out is like saying "we should legalize cocaine, it's just as addictive as cigarettes and has no long-term side-effects like tobacco does".

 

[Steeplerot]

"1/10 of the pople that drink alcohol"

not getting down on you LMK but you would be surprised how many people puff from all walks of life, but do not say anything to others who are not "cool".

Put that vibe out there sometime that you smoke..but don't be obvious...you would fall over backwards if you really saw how much MJ is part of our culture..as it has been throughout human history...just about every civilisation in history has smoked...

you name it, priests, doctors, mayors, working class, lawyers, cops, firemen. I have smoked with them all. (when that is my thing)

You know what the king james bibles were made of early on? the ones that were so important to give the average man his own copy of the bible?..you guessed it.

Our flag we won our independence with?...yep

the constitutuion and declaration of independence?...yep those too.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
one can not be replaced with the other, the number of marijuana users is about 1/10th that of alcohol users. to compare the two without pointing this out is like saying "we should legalize cocaine, it's just as addictive as cigarettes and has no long-term side-effects like tobacco does".

It is a very valid comparison. They are the two most popular mind altering drugs. The analogy to cocaine doesn't work simply because cocaine is a much more dangerous drug.

The point of comparing marijuana to alcohol is to display the hypocrisy of those who champion marijuana's prohibition. Marijuana is a safer drug than alcohol, period. The main reason given for prohibition of marijuana is that it is dangerous. Following that logic, alcohol should be banned and drinkers should also be arrested right? I'm hoping you realize how ridiculous it would be to arrest someone for possession of beer. You do realize why alcohol prohibition never did work and never can work right? The negative side effects of its prohibition on society were worse than those it was meant to alleviate. Even more so for marijuana.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"1/10 of the pople that drink alcohol"

not getting down on you LMK but you would be surprised how many people puff from all walks of life, but do not say anything to others who are not "cool".

that's cool, but i still think we'll have more intoxication by way of thc if we have more ready and legal access to it.

but growing rope has been essential in American history, i agree, but prohibition of such has it's benefits that shouldn't be ignored by someone honestly looking at decriminalization proposals.

It is a very valid comparison. They are the two most popular mind altering drugs.

comparison of the two on the "hypocrisy" level is valid, I?ll grant, but i don't believe that hypocrisy has anything to do with the quality of any side's argument. I don't believe people will replace alcohol with THC, but rather there will be a growth in THC use.

The main reason given for prohibition of marijuana is that it is dangerous. Following that logic, alcohol should be banned and drinkers should also be arrested right?

we tried, but more people got hurt than helped, if it was as clear cut as this with marijuana then it?d be much essayer to get the electorate on your side.

Even more so for marijuana.

i don't know that's true, as previously stated, this is a very complex issue with many factors to be taken into account that are of grave consequences, factors that can't simply be hand-waved away by saying the opposing points of view are "hypocritical"

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"1/10 of the pople that drink alcohol"

not getting down on you LMK but you would be surprised how many people puff from all walks of life, but do not say anything to others who are not "cool".

that's cool, but i still think we'll have more intoxication by way of thc if we have more ready and legal access to it.

Considering some of the rabid warmongers in here that actually wouldn't be a bad thing...

Seriously though pot is the enemy of alcoholism.
Get pops high and mellow when he comes home from work watching the game and the beers will be far less plentifully consumed.

Housewives everywhere will breathe a sigh of relief...and maybe something extra with pops afterword... everyone has their poison, and you could do a lot worse then having a dad with the munchies vs violently drunk...IMO

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
"1/10 of the pople that drink alcohol"

not getting down on you LMK but you would be surprised how many people puff from all walks of life, but do not say anything to others who are not "cool".

that's cool, but i still think we'll have more intoxication by way of thc if we have more ready and legal access to it.

but growing rope has been essential in American history, i agree, but prohibition of such has it's benefits that shouldn't be ignored by someone honestly looking at decriminalization proposals.

Originally posted by: hscorpio
It is a very valid comparison. They are the two most popular mind altering drugs.

comparison of the two on the "hypocrisy" level is valid, I?ll grant, but i don't believe that hypocrisy has anything to do with the quality of any side's argument. I don't believe people will replace alcohol with THC, but rather there will be a growth in THC use.

I see what your saying. We really don't truly know what will happen in regards to usage rates once marijuana is decriminalized, but we do have some indicators. In the US if you compare usage rates between states that have reduced possession of less than a certain amount to a misdamenor with states that still have very harsh felony laws; the rates of use are still very similar.

We can also study the Netherlands usage rate. I think you might be giving prohibition more credit than is due, in regards to it's "benefits" on marijuana's useage/popularity. I don't ignore they exist, but can see that the harms so easily outweigh the benefits that its unthinkable for me that someone can continue to support the current marijuana laws.

The hypocrisy angle lets us see the emptiness of one sides argument. It leads to the truth of marijuana prohibition; it's not illegal because it's dangerous/harmful. Not that I'm implying it's harmless, obviously it has negative effects, but compared to the negative effects of it's prohibition they are minimal.

I agree marijuana won't replace alcohol, but I don't think there will be a significant growth in pot use over the long-term. It would probably surge immediately following it's legality, but after awhile the people who always did like pot will continue to smoke, and those that don't like it won't.

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: hscorpio
The main reason given for prohibition of marijuana is that it is dangerous. Following that logic, alcohol should be banned and drinkers should also be arrested right?

we tried, but more people got hurt than helped, if it was as clear cut as this with marijuana then it?d be much essayer to get the electorate on your side.

Originally posted by: hscorpio
Even more so for marijuana.

i don't know that's true, as previously stated, this is a very complex issue with many factors to be taken into account that are of grave consequences, factors that can't simply be hand-waved away by saying the opposing points of view are "hypocritical"

It would be much easier to get the electorate on the truth's side if we didn't have government agencies like the DEA and ONDCP constantly LYING to the public about marijuana. See my earlier post responding to Rip's post quoting the DEA for proof of that.

Anyways I'm glad to see that you've actually been thinking about this issue for yourself. Personally I find the whole issue fascinating for some odd reason. I read almost every news article about marijuana thanks to google news and I have read several books on the issue. To me it is very clear-cut and I understand that most people don't care enough to study it and realize that one side's position rests nearly entirely on lies and misinformation.

 

[dahunan]

Which group represents wife beaters... pot smokers or alcoholics
Which group represents murderers who use cars as their weapon of choice.. pot smokers or alcoholics

Which drug is more widely abused and commonly leads the user to be an abusive parent and leads that person to abandon their children and become horribly selfish

Is our President really stupid or does he suffer from the affects of longterm hardcore alcohol abuse?

How many murders is marijuana directly responsible for compared to those caused by drunk drivers?

P.S. I really dislike alcoholics because they are some of the most selfish species on the planet.. they are also full of excuses to continue to support their CHOICE to remain alcoholics

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Which group represents wife beaters... pot smokers or alcoholics
Which group represents murderers who use cars as their weapon of choice.. pot smokers or alcoholics

Which drug is more widely abused and commonly leads the user to be an abusive parent and leads that person to abandon their children and become horribly selfish

Is our President really stupid or does he suffer from the affects of longterm hardcore alcohol abuse?

How many murders is marijuana directly responsible for compared to those caused by drunk drivers?

P.S. I really dislike alcoholics because they are some of the most selfish species on the planet.. they are also full of excuses to continue to support their CHOICE to remain alcoholics

I'm 99% sure that is because of the accesibility, not the drug itself.

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: dahunan
Which group represents wife beaters... pot smokers or alcoholics
Which group represents murderers who use cars as their weapon of choice.. pot smokers or alcoholics

Which drug is more widely abused and commonly leads the user to be an abusive parent and leads that person to abandon their children and become horribly selfish

Is our President really stupid or does he suffer from the affects of longterm hardcore alcohol abuse?

How many murders is marijuana directly responsible for compared to those caused by drunk drivers?

P.S. I really dislike alcoholics because they are some of the most selfish species on the planet.. they are also full of excuses to continue to support their CHOICE to remain alcoholics

I'm 99% sure that is because of the accesibility, not the drug itself.

Marijuana is very accessible too, despite being illegal.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: hscorpio

Originally posted by: Forsythe

Originally posted by: dahunan
Which group represents wife beaters... pot smokers or alcoholics
Which group represents murderers who use cars as their weapon of choice.. pot smokers or alcoholics

Which drug is more widely abused and commonly leads the user to be an abusive parent and leads that person to abandon their children and become horribly selfish

Is our President really stupid or does he suffer from the affects of longterm hardcore alcohol abuse?

How many murders is marijuana directly responsible for compared to those caused by drunk drivers?

P.S. I really dislike alcoholics because they are some of the most selfish species on the planet.. they are also full of excuses to continue to support their CHOICE to remain alcoholics

I'm 99% sure that is because of the accesibility, not the drug itself.

Marijuana is very accessible too, despite being illegal.

But not in the past. And that's where ganja becamse a culture and where wifebeaters wouldn't smoke it because only hippies do. But it's true, alcohol does make you violent. Ganja makes you damned hungry (which is not really cool when you have nothing to eat, in which case you might laugh or sleep).

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Hey Riprorin,
Do you still stand by your belief that marijuana has no medicinal value?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Crimson
I'm starting to learn a lot why people in this forum act the way they do..

Usually I don't advocate people smoking pot but in you case I think it would make a world of difference in a positive way even if you only smoke it while you are on line here

 

[JacobJ]

I admit I haven't read this entire thread...

but has anybody actually looked up and read the study the op referenced?

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: JacobJ
I admit I haven't read this entire thread...

but has anybody actually looked up and read the study the op referenced?

I read it back in March. Here's a link to the actual report.

Here's an interesting part:

There are potentially
two causal pathways by which cannabis use and psychosis
may be linked. First cannabis use may lead (via biochemical
changes in the brain) to increased rates of
psychotic symptoms amongst susceptible users. Alternatively,
those prone to psychosis or psychotic symptoms
may be more prone to use cannabis as a consequence
of their condition and perhaps as an attempt at selfmedication
[41,42]. Resolving this issue is clearly critical
to understanding the causal role that cannabis use may
play in psychosis. To address this issue we have employed
methods of structural equation modelling that permit
estimation of reciprocal causal pathways. Two models
were fitted, with the first using a relatively simple autoregressive
structure to identify model parameters and the
second incorporating fixed effects models for cannabis
use and psychotic symptoms. Both models led to similar
conclusions about the possible causal linkages between
cannabis use and psychotic symptoms. First, there was
clear evidence to suggest that increasing use of cannabis
was associated with statistically significant increases in
the risks of psychotic symptoms. Secondly, increasing
psychotic symptoms were not positively associated with
increased rates of cannabis use and indeed the fitted
autoregressive model suggested that the association
between psychosis and cannabis use may be negative, so
that increasing psychotic symptoms were associated with
a decline in the use of cannabis. The weight of the evidence
from the SEM approach clearly suggests the presence
of a causal process in which increasing use of
cannabis is associated with increasing rates of psychotic
symptoms.
Of course, these conclusions rest upon some of the relatively
strong assumptions (see Methods) required to
identify these models, but it is important to note that
these assumptions did not favour finding a particular
causal pathway between cannabis use and psychotic
symptoms.

I don't put much weight in assumptions. However there needs to be more research in this area.

Here's another opinion on the study:

Fergusson's team looked at a group of 1,265 New Zealand kids who were followed from birth to age 25 and assessed at various points along the way for a variety of physical, mental and social problems and issues. At ages 18, 21 and 25 they were assessed for both marijuana use and supposed psychotic symptoms. Having found a correlation, with daily users reporting the highest frequency of psychotic symptoms, they then applied a series of mathematical models. These models are designed to adjust for possible variables that might confound the results and to assess whether the marijuana use caused the symptoms or vice versa.

Whatever model was applied, the correlation held up. But the reported "growing evidence" that "regular use of cannabis may increase risks of psychosis" depends completely on the validity of the underlying data, and those data raise some screamingly obvious questions.

Psychotic symptoms were measured using 10 items from something called Symptom Checklist 90. Participants were asked if they had certain ideas, feelings or beliefs that commonly accompany psychotic states. The researchers did not look at actual diagnoses, and the symptom checklist is not identical to the formal diagnostic criteria listed in the DSM-IV manual. Perhaps most important, they only used 10 "representative" items from a much larger questionnaire.

These 10 items focus heavily on paranoid thoughts or feelings, such as "feeling other people cannot be trusted," "feeling you are being watched or talked about by others," "having ideas or beliefs that others do not share." This presents a big methodological problem, because it is well known that paranoid feelings are a fairly common effect of being high on marijuana.

But the article gives no indication that respondents were asked to distinguish between feelings experienced while high and feelings experienced at other times. Thus, we are left with no indication at all as to whether these supposed psychotic symptoms are long-term effects or simply the normal, passing effects of marijuana intoxication.Text

 

[walkur]

Legalizing pot doesn't end the world as you know it... if it did I wouldn't be typing this.

I lived in a street containing 2 "cofeeshops" and couple of normal bars, the only problems were caused by the (mostly drunken) people visiting the normal bars.

In my opinion the bigger "problem" caused by smoking pot is the penetrating smell

 

[judasmachine]

Marijuana is a prime example how our democracy doesn't work. I know people from city councilman to police officers to punk kids that all smoke marijuana. If a majority of people want to be allowed to do something then shouldn't they be allowed to by virtue of their majority? If you polled everyone and they answered honestly, you would find that most people don't care if others or themselves smoke weed.