Smoking bans...

[Tab]

Fargo Smoking Ban

Supporters of a comprehensive smoking ban found victory in Fargo on Tuesday and now plan to take their campaign to the rest of North Dakota.

In complete but unofficial results, Measure 2 earned support from 61 percent of voters. It had 9,658 votes.

The measure will enact a comprehensive smoking ban. It includes bars, truck stops and rental halls, taking the city?s current smoking ban up a notch.

It takes effect July 1.

Byrum Cartwright, chairman of the Smoke-free Air for Everyone Coalition, said he was sure the measure would win, though he didn?t know whether it would be by a hair or a landslide.

He said coalition members now hope to build momentum for the state Legislature to make the statewide smoking ban stricter. They will start with other cities.

?We?re certainly going to be supporting other cities as this issue comes up,? Cartwright said.

The complete ban easily beat a competing ban that would have kept the city?s current restrictions in place.

Measure 3 would have made exceptions for enclosed bars that prohibit patrons under the age of 21, designated areas of truck stops and J.T. Cigarro Tobacco Bar.

About 43 percent of voters supported the measure. It had 6,698 votes in complete but unofficial results.

Fargo businessman Randy Thorson, who led the charge to place the measure on the ballot, said he and other bar owners are OK with the results.

?We believe we have rights as business owners, but we also believe that the voters have a right,? he said.

But Thorson also said he believes some bars may close because of the complete smoking ban and proceeds from charitable gaming could drop.

Both bans needed a simple majority to pass. City Attorney Erik Johnson has said if both measures passed, the measure with the most yes votes would win.

That wasn?t necessary in this case, with only Measure 2 receiving more than 50 percent approval.

The vote Tuesday was aimed at settling a smoking debate that bubbled up again last summer as city commissioners considered turning a ban voters approved in 2004 into a comprehensive ordinance that would make no exceptions for bars.

City commissioners delayed final approval of a complete smoking ban in September when a group announced plans to collect petitions to place the no-exceptions ban on the ballot. It became Measure 2.

In response, bar owners and others in the alcohol industry worked to place Measure 3, the existing smoking ban, on the ballot.

Both sides poured thousands of dollars into the campaigns for the measures.

The election results mean that Fargo will now match Moorhead, where a statewide smoking ban took effect in October.

The Minnesota ban makes no exceptions for bars.

Seriously, whatever happen to businesses being able to run and manage themselves? We even banned smoking even at the Cigar Bar.

What is the world coming too?

 

[Genx87]

I hate smoking but these bans are overbearing govt at work imo. MN is great. They ban smoking in the metro area and the bars on the outskirts flourish. So they spread the misery across the entire state. Now bars in Wisc across the border are hopping and they are pressuring wisc to ban smoking.

Then to add insult to injury the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside. WTF? HUH? What purpose does the smoking ban server if the state helps to build rooms to smoke in?

btw one of the biggest nanny stater who pushed through the smoking bans was a huge smoker who wanted to quit. Apparently he felt the best way for him to quit was to outlaw the practive for the states 4.5 million residents as well.

What a fucking douchebag.

 

[Robor]

This topic has been debated to death already. In the end it's a matter of public health protection.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I hate smoking but these bans are overbearing govt at work imo. MN is great. They ban smoking in the metro area and the bars on the outskirts flourish. So they spread the misery across the entire state. Now bars in Wisc across the border are hopping and they are pressuring wisc to ban smoking.

Then to add insult to injury the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside. WTF? HUH? What purpose does the smoking ban server if the state helps to build rooms to smoke in?

btw one of the biggest nanny stater who pushed through the smoking bans was a huge smoker who wanted to quit. Apparently he felt the best way for him to quit was to outlaw the practive for the states 4.5 million residents as well.

What a fucking douchebag.

Actually, one of the more important things you should do in order to quit smoking is stay away from smoking. So, if you're 21-30 that's going to be quite difficult to do if you're going out on the weekends.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Robor
This topic has been debated to death already. In the end it's a matter of public health protection.

Any place that allows smoking must have proper ventilation or it's illegal.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Tab
Fargo Smoking Ban

Supporters of a comprehensive smoking ban found victory in Fargo on Tuesday and now plan to take their campaign to the rest of North Dakota.

In complete but unofficial results, Measure 2 earned support from 61 percent of voters. It had 9,658 votes.

The measure will enact a comprehensive smoking ban. It includes bars, truck stops and rental halls, taking the city?s current smoking ban up a notch.

It takes effect July 1.

Byrum Cartwright, chairman of the Smoke-free Air for Everyone Coalition, said he was sure the measure would win, though he didn?t know whether it would be by a hair or a landslide.

He said coalition members now hope to build momentum for the state Legislature to make the statewide smoking ban stricter. They will start with other cities.

?We?re certainly going to be supporting other cities as this issue comes up,? Cartwright said.

The complete ban easily beat a competing ban that would have kept the city?s current restrictions in place.

Measure 3 would have made exceptions for enclosed bars that prohibit patrons under the age of 21, designated areas of truck stops and J.T. Cigarro Tobacco Bar.

About 43 percent of voters supported the measure. It had 6,698 votes in complete but unofficial results.

Fargo businessman Randy Thorson, who led the charge to place the measure on the ballot, said he and other bar owners are OK with the results.

?We believe we have rights as business owners, but we also believe that the voters have a right,? he said.

But Thorson also said he believes some bars may close because of the complete smoking ban and proceeds from charitable gaming could drop.

Both bans needed a simple majority to pass. City Attorney Erik Johnson has said if both measures passed, the measure with the most yes votes would win.

That wasn?t necessary in this case, with only Measure 2 receiving more than 50 percent approval.

The vote Tuesday was aimed at settling a smoking debate that bubbled up again last summer as city commissioners considered turning a ban voters approved in 2004 into a comprehensive ordinance that would make no exceptions for bars.

City commissioners delayed final approval of a complete smoking ban in September when a group announced plans to collect petitions to place the no-exceptions ban on the ballot. It became Measure 2.

In response, bar owners and others in the alcohol industry worked to place Measure 3, the existing smoking ban, on the ballot.

Both sides poured thousands of dollars into the campaigns for the measures.

The election results mean that Fargo will now match Moorhead, where a statewide smoking ban took effect in October.

The Minnesota ban makes no exceptions for bars.

Seriously, whatever happen to businesses being able to run and manage themselves? We even banned smoking even at the Cigar Bar.

What is the world coming too?

Here's an interesting question.

In the event marijuana is legalized, should it be subject to the same restrictions of smoking?

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Here's an interesting question.

In the event marijuana is legalized, should it be subject to the same restrictions of smoking?

Yes, however I disagree with it.

 

[Pabster]

<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

 

[lupi]

Proper ventilation, lol.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: lupi
Proper ventilation, lol.

There's no way you'd contract cancer from a place with proper ventilation from 2nd hand smoke. You'd be more likely to win the powerball and be hit by lighting several times in a row.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Pabster
<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

 

[LeadMagnet]

they should ban smoking inside all buildings, except private homes - nationwide.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: daveshel
We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

Then stay 50 feet back. :laugh:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Pabster
<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

Is he smoking in your house? If not then how is he forcing his smoking habits on you? Sounds to me like you went into bars that had smoking knowing full well the consequences.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
they should ban smoking inside all buildings, except private homes - nationwide.

What's the difference between my house and my place of business?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
they should ban smoking inside all buildings, except private homes - nationwide.

You don't mind shouldering some additional tax burden, then?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
they should ban smoking inside all buildings, except private homes - nationwide.

What's the difference between my house and my place of business?

Other people go to your place of business of their own free will so he should be able to tell you which unhealthy things are allowed because he likes them and which ones aren't because he doesn't like them.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Pabster
<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

Is he smoking in your house? If not then how is he forcing his smoking habits on you? Sounds to me like you went into bars that had smoking knowing full well the consequences.

So what if I want a drink without an asthma attack? What if I want to be able to walk from the parking garage to my building without having to duck and dodge? Apparently, 61% of voters in Fargo share my concerns. Fortunately, I live in a state that has some protection for bars and restaurants. We just need it in the other places where there isn't enough space to stay 50 feet back.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LeadMagnet
they should ban smoking inside all buildings, except private homes - nationwide.

Wrong. My wife and I had an apartment in Denver where each side of us were heavy smokers.

Due to the common AC/Heat system our apartment filled up with both of their smoke combined. We were literally run-out of our apartment many times.

It was huge blessing when Denver passed the law of no smoking inside all buildings including apartments.

We were able to live in our apartment again.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Pabster
<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

Is he smoking in your house? If not then how is he forcing his smoking habits on you? Sounds to me like you went into bars that had smoking knowing full well the consequences.

So what if I want a drink without an asthma attack? What if I want to be able to walk from the parking garage to my building without having to duck and dodge? Apparently, 61% of voters in Fargo share my concerns. Fortunately, I live in a state that has some protection for bars and restaurants. We just need it in the other places where there isn't enough space to stay 50 feet back.

I dont know of many\(any?) smoking bans that ban smoking outside. And I doubt this one will either. If you want to drink without having an asthma attack drink at home or find a bar that banned smoking. There were and are bars that do such a thing. I went to school at NDSU in fargo and while at school there was a bar that did just that(banned smoking within the bar). And you know what? The place was packed. It was called the 21st Amendment though it has since closed due to the owner being a douchebag.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I hate smoking but these bans are overbearing govt at work imo. MN is great. They ban smoking in the metro area and the bars on the outskirts flourish. So they spread the misery across the entire state. Now bars in Wisc across the border are hopping and they are pressuring wisc to ban smoking.

Then to add insult to injury the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside. WTF? HUH? What purpose does the smoking ban server if the state helps to build rooms to smoke in?

btw one of the biggest nanny stater who pushed through the smoking bans was a huge smoker who wanted to quit. Apparently he felt the best way for him to quit was to outlaw the practive for the states 4.5 million residents as well.

What a fucking douchebag.

While I don't agree with this smoking ban garbage, building seperate rooms does NOT violate the spirit of the law. The idea is that people can go to bars and not be subjected to tons of cigarette smoke - having smokers in a seperate area alleviates that problem.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: jman19

Originally posted by: Genx87
I hate smoking but these bans are overbearing govt at work imo. MN is great. They ban smoking in the metro area and the bars on the outskirts flourish. So they spread the misery across the entire state. Now bars in Wisc across the border are hopping and they are pressuring wisc to ban smoking.

Then to add insult to injury the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside. WTF? HUH? What purpose does the smoking ban server if the state helps to build rooms to smoke in?

btw one of the biggest nanny stater who pushed through the smoking bans was a huge smoker who wanted to quit. Apparently he felt the best way for him to quit was to outlaw the practive for the states 4.5 million residents as well.

What a fucking douchebag.

While I don't agree with this smoking ban garbage, building seperate rooms does NOT violate the spirit of the law. The idea is that people can go to bars and not be subjected to tons of cigarette smoke - having smokers in a seperate area alleviates that problem.

Indeed.

 

[ManyBeers]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Genx87
I hate smoking but these bans are overbearing govt at work imo. MN is great. They ban smoking in the metro area and the bars on the outskirts flourish. So they spread the misery across the entire state. Now bars in Wisc across the border are hopping and they are pressuring wisc to ban smoking.

Then to add insult to injury the same state that bans smoking is giving subsidies to bar owners to erect smoking rooms outside. WTF? HUH? What purpose does the smoking ban server if the state helps to build rooms to smoke in?

btw one of the biggest nanny stater who pushed through the smoking bans was a huge smoker who wanted to quit. Apparently he felt the best way for him to quit was to outlaw the practive for the states 4.5 million residents as well.

What a fucking douchebag.

Actually, one of the more important things you should do in order to quit smoking is stay away from smoking. So, if you're 21-30 that's going to be quite difficult to do if you're going out on the weekends.

Is that a fact? I have quit smoking twice in my 55 years and have never avoided smokers or establishments that allow smoking . Other people smoking has never interferred with my ability to quit. So i disagree with your statement.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Pabster
<Yawn>

Excuse me while I go light up. This nanny-state "Stop Smoking" obsession really needs to stop. Stay the fuck out of my life! :|

We wouldn't need laws like this if you'd keep your filth the fuck out of out lives!

Is he smoking in your house? If not then how is he forcing his smoking habits on you? Sounds to me like you went into bars that had smoking knowing full well the consequences.

So what if I want a drink without an asthma attack? What if I want to be able to walk from the parking garage to my building without having to duck and dodge? Apparently, 61% of voters in Fargo share my concerns. Fortunately, I live in a state that has some protection for bars and restaurants. We just need it in the other places where there isn't enough space to stay 50 feet back.

I dont know of many\(any?) smoking bans that ban smoking outside. And I doubt this one will either. If you want to drink without having an asthma attack drink at home or find a bar that banned smoking. There were and are bars that do such a thing. I went to school at NDSU in fargo and while at school there was a bar that did just that(banned smoking within the bar). And you know what? The place was packed. It was called the 21st Amendment though it has since closed due to the owner being a douchebag.

By the same token, If you want to work for handicap-accessible workplace, go find one. Your argument is a fallacy, because you're assuming perfect market efficiency. Since one-time cost of a non-smoker visiting a smoke environment is minimal, most often he/she won't chose to go to a smoke-free bar. On the aggregate level, though, he/she is worse off and so are we (healthcare costs) and market will undersupply smoke-free bars.

I would suggest you google "asymmetric incentives"... fun economic therory and also the reason why all americans are paying 100-200 a year for sugar tariffs.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Tab

Originally posted by: Robor
This topic has been debated to death already. In the end it's a matter of public health protection.

Any place that allows smoking must have proper ventilation or it's illegal.

Before it was banned in FL I used to occasionally go to places that allow smoking and put up with it. Regardless of alleged 'proper ventilation' the level of smoke in them is enough to give me a headache and bother my breathing.