Smell of Marijuana Enough to Allow Warrantless Home Searches?

[umbrella39]

It's not wasting time, it's an illegal drug

Hush.

 

[HAL9000]

But there is no reason that it should be illegal. I have more respect for someone that won't hide it if someone asks, but won't flash it either. The reason I don't do it is because it is "to be cool" nowadays, and personally I don't have a need. Someone last night asked me to blaze one after work, I said no, but it would have felt real good to wind down with one.
We've seen your argument with drugs, and it is pretty pathetic.

Just because there may not be a (in your opinion) logical reason behind its illegality, doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. It's the law

/Discussion.

 

[MovingTarget]

Just because there may not be a (in your opinion) logical reason behind its illegality, doesn't change the fact that it's illegal. It's the law

/Discussion.

If it were just a handful of people, you might have a point. However, this opinion is held by enough of the population that the illegality of MJ needs to be redebated. "It is illegal because it is" isn't enough, nor should it be. Even the process that made it illegal in the first place is suspect.

The illegality of MJ is besides the point anyway. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean that the police/gvt have blanket authority to search your home or person without judicial review (a warrant) or verifiable probable cause. That is the issue here. The smell of MJ is not always verifiable, and is thus too ripe for abuse.

 

[HAL9000]

If it were just a handful of people, you might have a point. However, this opinion is held by enough of the population that the illegality of MJ needs to be redebated. "It is illegal because it is" isn't enough, nor should it be. Even the process that made it illegal in the first place is suspect.

The illegality of MJ is besides the point anyway. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean that the police/gvt have blanket authority to search your home or person without judicial review (a warrant) or verifiable probable cause. That is the issue here. The smell of MJ is not always verifiable, and is thus too ripe for abuse.

The problem with this argument is that I was arguing with another guy earlier about gun ownership and he said "it's illegal because it is and can't be made illegal" regardless of the thousands that die every year.

 

[MovingTarget]

The problem with this argument is that I was arguing with another guy earlier about gun ownership and he said "it's illegal because it is and can't be made illegal" regardless of the thousands that die every year.

Do you mean "it is legal because it is and can't be made illegal"? I think you may have a typo there.

If that is the case, then we get into the whole rights vs. laws debate that we had in another thread. To be honest, it may be deserving of a thread by itself. I don't want to respond to your gun ownership/second amendment comment simply because once brought up, threads tend to derail into that debate.

To Americans, individual rights trump laws. The right of a person to be secure in their person and property against unreasonable searches and seizures is paramount, regardless if it is only to find suspected illegal activity. That is why we have the procedure of getting a warrant. To us, this is a safeguard against governmental abuse of power towards its citizens. The smell of MJ is too subjective to allow a warrantless search.

 

[HAL9000]

Do you mean "it is legal because it is and can't be made illegal"? I think you may have a typo there.

If that is the case, then we get into the whole rights vs. laws debate that we had in another thread. To be honest, it may be deserving of a thread by itself. I don't want to respond to your gun ownership/second amendment comment simply because once brought up, threads tend to derail into that debate.

To Americans, individual rights trump laws. The right of a person to be secure in their person and property against unreasonable searches and seizures is paramount, regardless if it is only to find suspected illegal activity. That is why we have the procedure of getting a warrant. To us, this is a safeguard against governmental abuse of power towards its citizens. The smell of MJ is too subjective to allow a warrantless search.

I understand that, and you are right about warrantless searches (and my type ) but that being said I cannot comprehend a mentality where a perceived right like gun ownership outweighs the safety of the nation, it is obvious that this "right" americans seem to think they have to own guns is resulting in deaths, that is fact. I can't comprehend the logic.

Rights to privacy, rights to free speech (although I disagree with some definitions of the phrase) are important, right against prosecution, right to life. All paramount. Right to own a gun?! No. Particularly when this "right" results in regular deaths, if America had made gun ownership illegal when the UK did, imagine how many people could still be alive! It may have been too late for John Lennon but so many other important people that have died because of an ancient, now irrelevant right enshrined by law.

But yeah you're right this will derail the thread.

I'm not saying that warrantless searches are valid, they aren't (unless someones life is in danger, if you see someone tied up with a knife to their throat threw a window kick the door in) A smell is too subjective to make this legal.

 

[JS80]

Loss of economic liberty leads to loss of social liberty. This is a classic example.

++

Pretty stupid we should be wasting our time with this crap.

 

[WHAMPOM]

In other news, Cops break into a reported pot growing residence to find guinea pigs under heat lamp. Who ya gonna trust?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Oh, just to be on topic. Cops in pursuit do not need a warrant to break in.

 

[piasabird]

Smelling is admissable in court. Ever heard of a Drug Dog or a bomb sniffing dog.

 

[Brigandier]

Smelling is admissable in court. Ever heard of a Drug Dog or a bomb sniffing dog.

Human scent sense is as good as a dog's, you're right.

 

[nobodyknows]

If you think weed doesn't have a distinct smell, you're not smoking enough.

Incense FTW.

 

[Tom]

Human scent sense is as good as a dog's, you're right.

Why can humans smell dogs then ?

 

[Venix]

1) Infrared cameras on helicopters are a brilliant idea, as is CCTV it's only a problem for criminals.
2) An armed response unit in the UK is so rare that you have no idea what your talking about.
3( warrantless home searches? You have no idea what you're talking about.

How the hell is it "only a problem for criminals" when the very article I linked described completely innocent people being targeted? The only "evidence" the government had was seeing a heat source in the home; if you don't see the obvious problem with that you are mentally defective.

Edit: Just realized I was replying to neftard. Whew, I was scared that there was actually someone else on this board so absymally stupid.

 

[HAL9000]

How the hell is it "only a problem for criminals" when the very article I linked described completely innocent people being targeted? The only "evidence" the government had was seeing a heat source in the home; if you don't see the obvious problem with that you are mentally defective.

That's not true, in that case, someone had reported there was a cannabis factory on the property, they then used the infrared camera and saw heat and went for it.

In america people get shot for less.

 

[Venix]

That's not true, in that case, someone had reported there was a cannabis factory on the property, they then used the infrared camera and saw heat and went for it.

In america people get shot for less.

Not a single article of the dozens I've read mentions anything even close to that. Every one says that the police were viewing the area with FLIR, saw the heater hotspot, and mounted a raid based solely on that. Let's see some proof.

Before it was ruled Unconstitutional, United States police pulled the same shit. Fly around in a helicopter with FLIR and get warrants to raid any homes that emitted "suspicious" heat.

 

[HAL9000]

Not a single article of the dozens I've read mentions anything even close to that. Every one says that the police were viewing the area with FLIR, saw the heater hotspot, and mounted a raid based solely on that. Let's see some proof.

I'm not in charge of what you've read, I'm going on the News.

 

[MovingTarget]

Smelling is admissable in court. Ever heard of a Drug Dog or a bomb sniffing dog.

If it were a trained dog providing the evidence, then that would be better. A bloodhound, for instance, has a sense of smell magnitudes better than a human's. Besides, to have a dog properly search private property, you still need a warrant, IIRC.

 

[Venix]

I'm not in charge of what you've read, I'm going on the News.

Then it will be trivial for you to provide evidence to prove it. I've looked extensively and can find nothing to back up your ridiculous claim, likely because you're too stupid to comprehend what you see on the news.

 

[HAL9000]

Then it will be trivial for you to provide evidence to prove it. I've looked extensively and can find nothing to back up your ridiculous claim, likely because you're too stupid to comprehend what you see on the news.

My job is not to educate you. I don't do other peoples research for them.

 

[epidemis]

It's probable cause. I don't see the controversy.

 

[HAL9000]

It's probable cause. I don't see the controversy.

I think the controversy is that smell is quite a subjective sense, I.e. what I think smells like drugs might be different for you.

 

[MovingTarget]

It's probable cause. I don't see the controversy.

It is probable cause, but is it sufficient probable cause to bypass the warrant process for a search. Many people do not agree anymore that it passes that threshold. Some even say that it is unreasonable on 4th amendment grounds. That is the controversy.

 

[exdeath]

Because an individual smoking weed in their home is totally depriving another individuals right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, isn't that right? I personally cant stand weed, but I have no right to say what another person can do to their own bodies in their own property.

I also fully support invoking the right to self defense in the case of warrantless and no knock unannounced paramilitary forced entries.

War on drugs and war on terrorism have done more to violate liberty and erode this nation than drugs and terroism themselves combined.

 

[Steeplerot]

It's the law

/Discussion.

So strange in 2010 that there are some backward parts in the USA still doing the weed prohibition thing.

But then so is getting a BJ in the south.