Smell of Marijuana Enough to Allow Warrantless Home Searches?

[coreyb]

no. they shouldn't be wasting ANY time on marijuana.

 

[CycloWizard]

What actually happened is that the police were pursuing a drug dealer who had just sold cocaine to an undercover officer. They followed him into the apartment building and heard a door slam, but weren't sure which of two apartments he had entered. They incorrectly chose King's apartment based on the marijuana smell and noises coming from inside.

Allowing the police to freely enter homes based solely on something as subjective and unprovable as smell is certainly outrageous and prone to abuse, but I don't think it's too unreasonble to allow smell to be considered as one component in determining if exigent circumstances exist. Of course we'll have to see exactly how the Court rules to determine the full ramifications of its opinion.

In any case, it's good to see that everyone in this thread opposes the idea of warrantless home searches. Allow the Fourth Amendment to be trampled and we'll eventually wind up like the UK, where the police spy on you with helicopter-mounted infrared cameras, then send in the SWAT team because you have a space heater in your garage.

It is possible to quantitatively detect odors by measuring airborne quantities of a specific chemical species. I've never heard of any law enforcement agency doing that, but it can be done.

 

[Lemon law]

The other inevitable abuse of this potential is as follows. Given the fact that odors follow air currents, it makes it probable, that even if the smell seems to come from a given apartment or door, that cops will break down the wrong door and find innocent people.
And given the other fact that the hysteria of this mentally retarded potential ruling implies no knock entry, its all too probable that honest home gun owners will mistake the cops for dishonest home burglars who legally can and should be shot upon entry to the homeowners castle the very milli second they display a weapons that can endanger the lives of a homeowner.

This nation really really really needs to remove Scalia, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas from SCOTUS ASAP. And send them to the scrap heap of judicial stupidity.

 

[theeedude]

Strict constructionists strike again.

 

[bob4432]

The other inevitable abuse of this potential is as follows. Given the fact that odors follow air currents, it makes it probable, that even if the smell seems to come from a given apartment or door, that cops will break down the wrong door and find innocent people.
And given the other fact that the hysteria of this mentally retarded potential ruling implies no knock entry, its all too probable that honest home gun owners will mistake the cops for dishonest home burglars who legally can and should be shot upon entry to the homeowners castle the very milli second they display a weapons that can endanger the lives of a homeowner.

This nation really really really needs to remove Scalia, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas from SCOTUS ASAP. And send them to the scrap heap of judicial stupidity.

i was thinking the same thing - innocent homeowner + 2nd amendment + 4th amendment + castle doctrine + cops no knock because they 'smell' weed = bad deal for all involved

there is no need for a no knock w/ this, the police need to go through the proper channels and explain to a judge why they need the warrant, and i doubt 'your honor, i smelled weed while walking by bob's house' is going to get them a warrant.

 

[HAL9000]

no. they shouldn't be wasting ANY time on marijuana.

It's not wasting time, it's an illegal drug

 

[JEDIYoda]

The whole question in my mind is that a smell is in the nose of the beholder. Is it a turd, is it plain, is it simply burning leaves outside? And worse yet, given the fact the growing consensus is, that pot should not be illegal in the first place, that seems to be a poor place to draw any lines in constitutional questions.

As for me, Scalia has never met any of my sniff tests in terms of judicial reasoning. And in facts he reeks of being an idiot to the point he has become a an EPA superfund clean up waste dump.

Take my word for it, my nose knows.

What would you know about pot???
Now if this was a thread about psychedelic Mushrooms then I would say you are an Expert!!

 

[Screech]

Whether or not pot is unique in smell or any of that other stuff is, IMHO, beside the point. That a cop, any cop, can, according to this argument, break down any door and later make some vague claim that s/he 'smelled pot and heard a flush' is a terrible amount of power given to police that is absurdly against the spirit and letter of the 4th. This should definitely not be allowed, regardless if your views on (il)legalization.

 

[WelshBloke]

...In any case, it's good to see that everyone in this thread opposes the idea of warrantless home searches. Allow the Fourth Amendment to be trampled and we'll eventually wind up like the UK, where the police spy on you without a warrant with helicopter-mounted infrared cameras, then send in the SWAT team because you have a space heater in your garage.

Firstly we dont have SWAT teams, armed officers are NOT routinely sent to drug busts.

Secondly they would have had a warrant.

Thirdly, hovering overhead in a Helicopter is a crap way to spy on someone, more likely they were chasing a suspect using the infra red camera at night, noticed the hot spot and got a warrant.

Least they didnt shoot both guinea pigs! :sneaky:

 

[Murloc]

subjective and prone to abuse, and it's not worth it breaking in for some weed.

 

[zsdersw]

It's not wasting time, it's an illegal drug

Of course it's a waste of time. Police officers' time is a finite and expensive resource, and its use must be prioritized.

Every homicide, robbery, or drunk driving accident on the road that happens because cops were searching for homes/apartments in which marijuana is being smoked is a tragic case of mismanagement of time and resources.

 

[dmcowen674]

Do you think police officers should be allowed to enter a home in circumstances like these without a warrant,

or is this a violation of the 4th amendment?

There is no 4th amendment silly.

 

[Vette73]

Republican activist judges at it again.



Funny how so many here are ok when Scilia, thomas, etc... does something they want. But when they use the same BS reason for things like this you now see how the “liberal” judges come to their decisions.

 

[Cogman]

meh, The forth is already in trouble. Any cop, if he wants, could enter your home warrantless because he thinks he hears someone say "Help!". I really don't see how smell is any less verifiable than sound.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Of course it's a waste of time. Police officers' time is a finite and expensive resource, and its use must be prioritized.

Every homicide, robbery, or drunk driving accident on the road that happens because cops were searching for homes/apartments in which marijuana is being smoked is a tragic case of mismanagement of time and resources.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. The War On Drugs is a proven failure and it's continuation only breeds more debt and more agony for the citizens of this country. If you do not understand this to be a fact then you either suffer from being an innocent or being mislead.

 

[bamacre]

Loss of economic liberty leads to loss of social liberty. This is a classic example.

 

[Red Dawn]

Loss of economic liberty leads to loss of social liberty. This is a classic example.

Interesting concept, would you mind elaborating on it a little more?

 

[CycloWizard]

Republican activist judges at it again.



Funny how so many here are ok when Scilia, thomas, etc... does something they want. But when they use the same BS reason for things like this you now see how the “liberal” judges come to their decisions.

You're right: liberal judges are correct on this issue, so they must be correct on all other issues. Either that, or you've constructed some sort of horribly illogical argument here.

 

[HAL9000]

What actually happened is that the police were pursuing a drug dealer who had just sold cocaine to an undercover officer. They followed him into the apartment building and heard a door slam, but weren't sure which of two apartments he had entered. They incorrectly chose King's apartment based on the marijuana smell and noises coming from inside.

Allowing the police to freely enter homes based solely on something as subjective and unprovable as smell is certainly outrageous and prone to abuse, but I don't think it's too unreasonable to allow smell to be considered as one component in determining if exigent circumstances exist. Of course we'll have to see exactly how the Court rules to determine the full ramifications of its opinion.

In any case, it's good to see that everyone in this thread opposes the idea of warrantless home searches. Allow the Fourth Amendment to be trampled and we'll eventually wind up like the UK, where the police spy on you without a warrant with helicopter-mounted infrared cameras, then send in the SWAT team because you have a space heater in your garage.

1) Infrared cameras on helicopters are a brilliant idea, as is CCTV it's only a problem for criminals.
2) An armed response unit in the UK is so rare that you have no idea what your talking about.
3( warrantless home searches? You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[HAL9000]

Of course it's a waste of time. Police officers' time is a finite and expensive resource, and its use must be prioritized.

Every homicide, robbery, or drunk driving accident on the road that happens because cops were searching for homes/apartments in which marijuana is being smoked is a tragic case of mismanagement of time and resources.

For future reference, my use of is almost always followed or preceded by sarcasm

 

[crownjules]

Way too easy to abuse. I can claim that I smell something when in fact I do not. And we all know that every LEO is a straight shooting arrow that always tells the truth.

I've had it happen to me first hand. On vacation with friends one summer, we went out on the beach one night and had a fire. Got all the proper permits and everything squared away. All of us over 21. Rules stipulate we had to be off the beach by midnight. About 11:15ish, a LEO roles up on our site stating that she smells marijuana and begins to search around our site and inspected all our IDs. Absolutely ludicrous proposition that she smelt marijuana since it was a breezy night and we hadn't been smoking anything but cigarettes and cigars.

 

[bamacre]

Interesting concept, would you mind elaborating on it a little more?

Just using the example in the OP, regarding marijuana. The illegality of buying and selling marijuana is a loss of economic freedom. The government has outlawed what would normally be a voluntary transaction of money for goods. The loss of social liberty comes with government's enforcement, the invasion of privacy, illegal search, schools drug testing kids who want to join their high school football team, etc.

You could put marriage in this category, too. Since government has a monopoly on legal marriage, government decides who can and who can't marry. For some time, interracial marriages were not legal, and we all know most homosexuals still cannot marry legally.

Let's look at health care, where there is almost a complete loss of economic liberty. We don't even have a universal health care system, and there are already attacks on social liberties. If government, or society through taxes, is economically responsible for health care, then there is an incentive for government through society to regulate the decisions of the individual, what he/she eats, drinks, smokes.

 

[Tristicus]

I fucking hate the smell of weed, and if it was bothering me, then I'd gladly call the cops on someone. If you can't hide it, don't smoke it. If it's medical, then they should probably check out who's apartment it is before they go busting shit down. Not for it, not against it...just like weed.

 

[HAL9000]

I fucking hate the smell of weed, and if it was bothering me, then I'd gladly call the cops on someone. If you can't hide it, don't smoke it. If it's medical, then they should probably check out who's apartment it is before they go busting shit down. Not for it, not against it...just like weed.

I have to say I agree, but it's not the smell I hate it's the blatant drug taking, it's illegal, hide it or fuck off! Then the argument "Oh it's just weed" it's illegal, there's no "Oh it's just..." it's either illegal or legal.

 

[Tristicus]

I have to say I agree, but it's not the smell I hate it's the blatant drug taking, it's illegal, hide it or fuck off! Then the argument "Oh it's just weed" it's illegal, there's no "Oh it's just..." it's either illegal or legal.

But there is no reason that it should be illegal. I have more respect for someone that won't hide it if someone asks, but won't flash it either. The reason I don't do it is because it is "to be cool" nowadays, and personally I don't have a need. Someone last night asked me to blaze one after work, I said no, but it would have felt real good to wind down with one.
We've seen your argument with drugs, and it is pretty pathetic.