SM3.0 effects in FarCry

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

I thought his 1st 5800 was a vanilla 5800 @ ultra speeds.

And that makes all the difference does it?

To me it does. I wanted to try the Ultra that runs stock at 500/1000. It's a rare card, the OTES is even rarer.

Wanted the OTES because they're very rare, in effect, a quiet Ultra.

So where is the card now?

Well, I've already mentioned in this thread that I stepped on it to end an argument with my wife about the "final" resolution of the OTES situation, but here it is:
Squashed OTES

Wanted the Ultra because they're rare and infamous.

So why replace the OTES with it? And where are both cards now?

It was DOA (the OTES) because the troll shipped it to me in an unpadded envelope, if it even worked when he shipped it. The OTES is on a shelf in my basement. The Ultra is in my computer now, I game with it every day.

Bought the 5800NU because I was bored with 9700P, needed a change.

"I just got a 5800U, went online at 1024 x 768 and kicked ass. Therefore the card is equal to a 9700 Pro"
-Rollo

No, the fact that it has a little more fillrate and a little less memory bandwidth are probably the reason the 5800U is equal to a 9700Pro.

I like to try out new hardware,

No, you like to troll.

You've undoubtedly seen the many times over the years I've gone from a faster card to a slower card. You think I do this just so I can "troll"? LOL- I've wasted a fair amount of money then just to try and get a rise out of guys like you BFG. Hint: It's not worth money to me to upset people on a bbs. I don't even want to upset people on a bbs.

 

[James3shin]

jeebus, just leave rollo alone. In the end its his choice which card he ends up buying...can we atleast get back on topic.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
That's not what I meant Technically though, unless it's unplayable with all ATI drivers, it doesn't count.

Look's like you've had bad luck. I know a lot of people who have had minimal problems with their ATI cards.

From a technical standpoint, yes, there probably isn't anything a 5900 can run playable that a 9800 cant.
I was taking the realistic approach because yes, I did have hell with my particular 9500pro/9700np.
The R350/360 was/is an awesome graphics chip family. The 5900's are terrific as well save for the shader performance and AA weaknesses.

 

[BFG10K]

No, the fact that it has a little more fillrate and a little less memory bandwidth are

It has far less pixel fillrate and far less memory bandwidth.

probably the reason the 5800U is equal to a 9700Pro

It isn't equal to a 9700 Pro unless you run CPU limited benchmarks (which you constantly do).

Using your logic one can wrongfully conclude that there's no difference between a X800XT and a 9800XT because at 1024x768 they're often the same speed.

You think I do this just so I can "troll"?

Yes. If you really did it because you were board you wouldn't be posting ridiculous things like below:

I can link to a fair amount of benchmarks that show it to be equal or better than a 9700PRO.

 

[MajorCatastrophe]

Looks totally overdone, and lovely at the same time. I'm sure it'll look cool in motion.

 

[nRollo]

BFG:
Sigh. It doesn't much matter to me what you think of the 5800Ultra anymore. If I post the 12X10 4X8X benchmarks, you'll just say they're cpu limited and say only the 16X12 benches matter, even though neither card is playable at those settings. Then you'll start yelling about how it's better to ride cows than goats and the like.

If you want to think your 9700Pro is a far better card, I'm happy for you.

Soon I'll be using a 6800 of some sort, you can tell me how your venerable 9700Pro beats that too and make your descent to fan boy shame complete.

 

[Acanthus]

How about the Anandtech review with OCing the 9800/5950 and the 5950 STOMPED on the ATi line.

ANYWAY back on topic, HDR lighting is sexy, that is all.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
How about the Anandtech review with OCing the 9800/5950 and the 5950 STOMPED on the ATi line.

There were a number of problems with that review; the choice of games was particularly poor (Halo and JK:JA are both titles where NVIDIA does a LOT better than ATI, for whatever reasons), and I felt the tests were incomplete and did not paint a good picture of the cards' capabilities (testing at 1024x768 is a poor choice, since you're going to be CPU-limited in many situations with the fastest cards, and their UT2K3 tests are obviously of the 'flyby' variety, which mainly stresses memory bandwidth). Furthermore, comparisons of overclocking performance are fraught with difficulty, given that OCing capability can differ drastically from card to card even if they are exactly the same model. They're not even very clear in the charts about how much each card has been overclocked. A disappointing review all around.

ANYWAY back on topic, HDR lighting is sexy, that is all.

I'll drink to that. :beer:

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Rollo
BFG:
Sigh. It doesn't much matter to me what you think of the 5800Ultra anymore. If I post the 12X10 4X8X benchmarks, you'll just say they're cpu limited and say only the 16X12 benches matter, even though neither card is playable at those settings. Then you'll start yelling about how it's better to ride cows than goats and the like.

If you want to think your 9700Pro is a far better card, I'm happy for you.

Soon I'll be using a 6800 of some sort, you can tell me how your venerable 9700Pro beats that too and make your descent to fan boy shame complete.

but now he ignores aa/af performance this round, where the gt and the pro are pretty comparable, but rather only non aa/af settings where the gt pulls ahead a bit, then states the gt is "significantly" faster, lol.

i'm actually quite happy with the pro.. and in some ways it's a bad situation having both sides offering such great parts (at least for me), cause i still have an xt and a gt on backorder - it's gettng expensive

 

[ChkSix]

From someone who owns both the 9800pro and 5950(5900) I can say with utter certainty that their is no single game or benchmark that the 9800pro wins clearly at. In fact, in most games with the same settings, the 5950 is either equal to the 9800pro in performance or faster. Anyone can try to tell me otherwise, however my own numbers don't lie.

Mike

 

[OfficerDoofey]

Originally posted by: Rollo


Soon I'll be using a 6800 of some sort, you can tell me how your venerable 9700Pro beats that too and make your descent to fan boy shame complete.

I am your father luke.. join me.. lol

 

[BFG10K]

you can tell me how your venerable 9700Pro beats that too and make your descent to fan boy shame complete.

I find the chance of that happening extremely unlikely.

but now he ignores aa/af performance this round, where the gt and the pro are pretty comparable, but rather only non aa/af settings where the gt pulls ahead a bit, then states the gt is "significantly" faster, lol.

That is utter rubbish Cainam and in fact the arguments you're putting forward suggest you're ignoring the AA/AF results. Congrats, you've managed not only to produce a strawman but also to be a pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: BFG10K

How about three of them?

you mean 3 9800 Pros? I'd take the Ultra. Like I said, collectability. You could probably get $600 for a 5800U on ebay right now.

A BFG Asylum 5800U that was a week old and included a warranty that I was watching sold at a final bid price of $175 on eBay. Not quite $600
You can still buy them brand new for about $225.
Also a couple places still offer the 5800NU variety for around $180ish.
If anyone is interested, I shall bring forth the power of the link.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

you can tell me how your venerable 9700Pro beats that too and make your descent to fan boy shame complete.

I find the chance of that happening extremely unlikely.

but now he ignores aa/af performance this round, where the gt and the pro are pretty comparable, but rather only non aa/af settings where the gt pulls ahead a bit, then states the gt is "significantly" faster, lol.

That is utter rubbish Cainam and in fact the arguments you're putting forward suggest you're ignoring the AA/AF results. Congrats, you've managed not only to produce a strawman but also to be a pot calling the kettle black.

hardly.. i'm just not taking sides...

throw out one title, CoD (and keep in mind all this is due to one single review, so it's hardly a 'broad' observation) and the performance of both cards in that review are pretty close - gt taking a couple, and pro taking a couple.

overall the gt seems to have more of an advantage when af is not part of the equation, however when af is applied, the ati takes much less of a hit - and this review is with optimization enabled for both cards.

somehow tho, this turns into "the gt is significanctly faster than the pro", and the bottom line is that's rubbish. the reality is upcoming titles may show more of a spread, and they'll likely trade off as we can be pretty certain the gt will have an advantage in d3 and the pro in hl2 - but i doubt they'll be anything but smooth on either card at higher settings.

for features, i prefer nv's sm3 over ati's 3dc (temporal aa is more interesting than useful imo), but i doubt lacking either feature will be detrimental during the life of these cards. ati has a bit nicer aa mode (6x), but both of these cards will run most titles at resolutions where even 4x may not be needed (tho did i hear rumors of nv having an additional driver mode in a later driver?).

i prefer some of the nv driver features, namely auto select game profiles (tho it's pretty certain ati will offer a similar feature in the next major driver release). both companies should show performance increases in future driver revisions. yes, ati has plenty of driver optimizations yet, mainly with the new memory controller (which most people neglect to see is quite improved over r3xx) - a subsytem that has far more to do with overall gfx performance than most people realize.

nv's texture filtering is now sub-par and matches ati, their rg aa mode is on par up to 4x, and with sm3 and 3dc being a non-factor at this time, there pretty comparable. the better card at this point is has more to do with price than performance.

all the fanboy ranting is nothing more than BS, with those barking loudest seemingly the most insecure. bottom line is whichever way you go, you'll see one card with disadvantages in some titles and advantages in others, but i sincerely doubt there will be anything either of these cards can't perform well at for quite some time. this includes the highest end cards, where ati now is the performance leader, but the ultra will be pretty comparable before long. here the dual molex/dual slot factor may come into play more than performance for many people...

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Avalon

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: BFG10K

How about three of them?

you mean 3 9800 Pros? I'd take the Ultra. Like I said, collectability. You could probably get $600 for a 5800U on ebay right now.

A BFG Asylum 5800U that was a week old and included a warranty that I was watching sold at a final bid price of $175 on eBay. Not quite $600
You can still buy them brand new for about $225.
Also a couple places still offer the 5800NU variety for around $180ish.
If anyone is interested, I shall bring forth the power of the link.

You're wrong as well Avalon. BFG sells refurb 5800Us for $225, and newegg sells new 5800Us for $300- but I know of no place that sells new 5800Us for $225.. Do you have a link?

I never thought the card was worth more than $175.. I traded a used 9800Pro that was selling new at the time for $210 for it, which I figured was worth approximately $175.. I threw in money for a Silencer to deal with a reputable person like DaPunisher because I had just gotten trolled.

IMO- I traded a $175 card for a $175 card, I'm out nothing except the $27. for the Silencer. "Oh no, time to take out a second mortgage for change that wouldn't even buy a six pack of my favorite beer..."
:roll:

 

[igowerf]

It'd be cool if they calculated the effects based on how long you've been in the dark or in the light. Then the effect could fade in and out simulating his eyes adjusting.

 

[Avalon]

I consider the refurbs on chumbo as new. What we consider new is subjective, so I don't feel that I'm wrong at all. The way I see it, is that it's just a card that someone returned because they realized they didn't want that card or decided they needed their money back for whatever reason. I asked Chumbo what the cards came with, and they emailed me back saying they came with what the retail cards came with; the box, the driver cd, the cables, the adapter, the warranty, etc. That's the only place I know that sells them that low. The non ultras you can find on pricewatch. There is a megaspeed brand one for $180ish, or maybe it was $190, I forget. A few places sell the 5800U for outrageous prices, such as that $300 one on newegg, which I didn't know they had last I checked. I think another place was Allstarshop, that was selling a non ultra for well over $300. Scary.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: Avalon
The way I see it, is that it's just a card that someone returned because they realized they didn't want that card or decided they needed their money back for whatever reason.

and you gave the exact reason it's not "new".. it's "pre-owned", "used", "refurb". it could also have been defective and then repaired (some places it doesn't even mean it was repaired). doesn't mean it's not a good buy, but it does mean it's "not new".

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: Avalon
The way I see it, is that it's just a card that someone returned because they realized they didn't want that card or decided they needed their money back for whatever reason.

and you gave the exact reason it's not "new".. it's "pre-owned", "used", "refurb". it could also have been defective and then repaired (some places it doesn't even mean it was repaired). doesn't mean it's not a good buy, but it does mean it's "not new".

That's how I see it.

 

[Avalon]

If you used a card for two weeks, and then sold it to me, I'd consider it new. You don't. I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. Now that you understand what I consider "new", there's nothing you need to worry about.

 

[Pentium]

Doom 3 has HDR effects so i dont know what the big deal is.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: Avalon
If you used a card for two weeks, and then sold it to me, I'd consider it new. You don't. I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. Now that you understand what I consider "new", there's nothing you need to worry about.

What about a toothbrush I used for two weeks?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Avalon
If you used a card for two weeks, and then sold it to me, I'd consider it new. You don't. I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. Now that you understand what I consider "new", there's nothing you need to worry about.

What you call "new" and the commonly accepted definition of "new" don't seem to have much in common, do they? I believe it's illegal to sell refurbs as new merchandise?

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Avalon
If you used a card for two weeks, and then sold it to me, I'd consider it new. You don't. I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. Now that you understand what I consider "new", there's nothing you need to worry about.

If you bought a car, drove it 100 miles and sold it, would you expect the new price?

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: ZimZum

Originally posted by: Avalon
If you used a card for two weeks, and then sold it to me, I'd consider it new. You don't. I'm happy for you, but that doesn't change how I feel about it. Now that you understand what I consider "new", there's nothing you need to worry about.

What about a toothbrush I used for two weeks?

lol.. or "bathroom tissue"

or here.. use my kleenex! i only used it 2 or 3 times - it's new! hungry? how bout my taco? i didn't feel good so it came back up, but i only ate it once! it's still NEW!!!!