Old Fart:
Was I trying to prove a point when I went from GF3 to slower 8500? From 8500 to slower V5? From GF1 to slower MAXX? From GF2 Pro to slower Radeon 32DDR? From Voodoo2 to slower Banshee? From TNT to slower Rage 32? Etc.
Or do you think maybe I just like to try video cards like I've said all along and maybe it's a tactical error to project your values and habits on other people?
I wish I would have in retrospect. To make a long story short, I stepped on it to show my wife I was done dealing with the troll over $200. during a rare and IMO, inexplicable argument. (the troll was trying to convince me to defraud ABIT by returning it as defective[note: I don't just post here that it's wrong to RMA do to misuse, I live it, the guy mailed me the card in an envelope and said it was damaged in shipping])
One man's odd is another man's normal. I like to try out new hardware, I bet I'm not the only one.
I don't really care what the vast majority of anyone does, I do what I like to do. I think it's fun to buy new hardware and try it, if most other people don't, it's their perogative.
You're way off base there. I traded because I've wanted a 5800U for a long time. I told BFG that it wasn't a big hardship on me to make the trade, because the 5800U offered close enough performance to the 9800Pro that I didn't feel like I'd lost a lot. I've never said the 5800U was as good as a 9800Pro, and never would. I did say it's as good as the card it was meant to compete with (9700Pro)at all the games that were available for one year after it's release, and still think that. There's still only a handful of games that would be better on a 9700P, and both cards are now aged.
Sort of. See above. What I said was nobody would trade for an "inferior" card, because IMO BFG uses the term inferior way too loosely. Inferior to me means their is a big difference, there is not a big difference in the gaming experience with a 5800U and a 9800P. I guess that depends on how you define "big" but to me a little higher AF or a setting higher AA isn't "big".
Unless you are psychic, you don't know this.
Was I trying to prove a point when I went from GF3 to slower 8500? From 8500 to slower V5? From GF1 to slower MAXX? From GF2 Pro to slower Radeon 32DDR? From Voodoo2 to slower Banshee? From TNT to slower Rage 32? Etc.
Or do you think maybe I just like to try video cards like I've said all along and maybe it's a tactical error to project your values and habits on other people?
What about geometry instancing. That feature will definitely speed things up in games that want to do a lot of outdoor scenery.
as long as you don't want variety.. as geometry instancing makes exact copies by looping from the buffer - so every tree would looks identical.
rts may be a place where it could provide some performance enhancements, at least in situations where large numbers of soldiers or enemies all look the same anyways, however they'd still have to be animated seperately, so it's hard to say just how much performance could be saved.
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
And that makes all the difference does it?
So where is the card now?
So why replace the OTES with it? And where are both cards now?
"I just got a 5800U, went online at 1024 x 768 and kicked ass. Therefore the card is equal to a 9700 Pro"
-Rollo
No, you like to troll.
The whole point of geometry instancing is so that you can use the same model and make small changes to it without having to define each individual model like you did in the past.
What you describe - looping to get the same model repeatedly - isn't even a feature.
Yes modifications can be made with geometry instancing, i think the largest game market where this will provide tangible increases is MMORPGs that are almost exclusively outdoor environments.
what modifications? 'geometry instancing' only works on identical copies - if it's not identical, it's not "instanced" and you don't gain the performance benefits.... as each item has to be individualy rendered, not 'copied'.
That's definitely a wee bit beyond my budget, but I stand by my original statement. Given the choice between a 5800U and any other last generation part, I'd go for the 5800.
Originally posted by: Rollo
Hey, it's Fsstrike, what can you expect? He talks about good hardware as if he's ever owned any (hasn't) and talks smack about guys who buy it on a whim and use it till they're tired of it.
That P4 1.5 and Ti4200 crankin' some Quake 2 for you there, little buddy?
BTW Big Chief- I never said my 5800U was "better" than the 9800Pro I traded for it. I said it was a neat card I'm glad I got a chance to try, that has performance comparable to the 9700 Pro I used to have back in the day.
I'll put it this way Chief- the only game I have I can't play 10X7 4X8X with no slowdowns is Painkiller, and that pumps a lot of polys. Why don't you try turning on the 4X8X and count the frames on your fingers?
:roll:
I dont play crappy games such as painkiller, so I wont be able to count for you. Sorry
And you play a lot of Q3 games dont you? Well, my hardware is more than perfect enough to play any Q3 engine game that exists. I Crank up the res to 1600x1200x32 with all details on high, with no AA or AF and i get FPS between 45 - 75FPS which you cannot argue is bad. The game I play most though is CS, as you do not need the newest and best hardware to run it. I Play it at 1600x1200x32 with 2xAA,2XAF and maintain a constant 60FPS. Sure, thats not something to brag about, its just CS right? At least I dont try to pretend that my 3 year old RIG can rival current top of the line hardware. Oh ya, I remember just a few months ago anand posted an article about why the nv30 FAILED hhahahahaha.Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: Rollo
Hey, it's Fsstrike, what can you expect? He talks about good hardware as if he's ever owned any (hasn't) and talks smack about guys who buy it on a whim and use it till they're tired of it.
That P4 1.5 and Ti4200 crankin' some Quake 2 for you there, little buddy?
BTW Big Chief- I never said my 5800U was "better" than the 9800Pro I traded for it. I said it was a neat card I'm glad I got a chance to try, that has performance comparable to the 9700 Pro I used to have back in the day.
I'll put it this way Chief- the only game I have I can't play 10X7 4X8X with no slowdowns is Painkiller, and that pumps a lot of polys. Why don't you try turning on the 4X8X and count the frames on your fingers?
:roll:
I dont play crappy games such as painkiller, so I wont be able to count for you. Sorry
Your bashing Rollo for his choice of card, and spout off about how you wont use anything NV because it gets 10FPS less than the 420 (this is hypothetical) and yet your sitting there running Q3 @ 16x12 with no AA or AF and your satisfied with only 45-75 frames? then you play CS at 16x12 with 2xAA and 2x AF.
And yet Im fairly sure Rollo's 5700U could crank out more than your setup is....hell Im really sure it could. Oh and BTW Painkiller is more of a b1tch to run than Q3 right off at the same settings I get less frames than I do in Q3....so for such a crappy game..it sure has the ability to pull hardware down slightly dont it?
But to make this short...am I the only who finds this guy funny?
Originally posted by: VisableAssassin
Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: Rollo
Hey, it's Fsstrike, what can you expect? He talks about good hardware as if he's ever owned any (hasn't) and talks smack about guys who buy it on a whim and use it till they're tired of it.
That P4 1.5 and Ti4200 crankin' some Quake 2 for you there, little buddy?
BTW Big Chief- I never said my 5800U was "better" than the 9800Pro I traded for it. I said it was a neat card I'm glad I got a chance to try, that has performance comparable to the 9700 Pro I used to have back in the day.
I'll put it this way Chief- the only game I have I can't play 10X7 4X8X with no slowdowns is Painkiller, and that pumps a lot of polys. Why don't you try turning on the 4X8X and count the frames on your fingers?
:roll:
I dont play crappy games such as painkiller, so I wont be able to count for you. Sorry
Your bashing Rollo for his choice of card, and spout off about how you wont use anything NV because it gets 10FPS less than the 420 (this is hypothetical) and yet your sitting there running Q3 @ 16x12 with no AA or AF and your satisfied with only 45-75 frames? then you play CS at 16x12 with 2xAA and 2x AF.
And yet Im fairly sure Rollo's 5700U could crank out more than your setup is....hell Im really sure it could. Oh and BTW Painkiller is more of a b1tch to run than Q3 right off at the same settings I get less frames than I do in Q3....so for such a crappy game..it sure has the ability to pull hardware down slightly dont it?
But to make this short...am I the only who finds this guy funny?
Of course his system is better than mine, im not saying it isnt. One of my idiot buddies spent 2800$ on his machine. Its a p4 3.2C, 1024mb DDR 400 and 5200. Im sure his could beat mine, but was it really a smart buy? Of course not! 2800$ for an average system!? I dont think so. Just because someone buys expensive things, and has hardware thats "better", doesnt mean it was a smart purchase. And rollos 5800 was definitely not a smart purchase considering it was a downgrade to the previously top of the line 9800Pro. The 9800 pro clearly beats the 5900, and the 5900 clearly beats the 5800, see where im getting at?
Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: VisableAssassin
Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: Rollo
Hey, it's Fsstrike, what can you expect? He talks about good hardware as if he's ever owned any (hasn't) and talks smack about guys who buy it on a whim and use it till they're tired of it.
That P4 1.5 and Ti4200 crankin' some Quake 2 for you there, little buddy?
BTW Big Chief- I never said my 5800U was "better" than the 9800Pro I traded for it. I said it was a neat card I'm glad I got a chance to try, that has performance comparable to the 9700 Pro I used to have back in the day.
I'll put it this way Chief- the only game I have I can't play 10X7 4X8X with no slowdowns is Painkiller, and that pumps a lot of polys. Why don't you try turning on the 4X8X and count the frames on your fingers?
:roll:
I dont play crappy games such as painkiller, so I wont be able to count for you. Sorry
Your bashing Rollo for his choice of card, and spout off about how you wont use anything NV because it gets 10FPS less than the 420 (this is hypothetical) and yet your sitting there running Q3 @ 16x12 with no AA or AF and your satisfied with only 45-75 frames? then you play CS at 16x12 with 2xAA and 2x AF.
And yet Im fairly sure Rollo's 5700U could crank out more than your setup is....hell Im really sure it could. Oh and BTW Painkiller is more of a b1tch to run than Q3 right off at the same settings I get less frames than I do in Q3....so for such a crappy game..it sure has the ability to pull hardware down slightly dont it?
But to make this short...am I the only who finds this guy funny?
Of course his system is better than mine, im not saying it isnt. One of my idiot buddies spent 2800$ on his machine. Its a p4 3.2C, 1024mb DDR 400 and 5200. Im sure his could beat mine, but was it really a smart buy? Of course not! 2800$ for an average system!? I dont think so. Just because someone buys expensive things, and has hardware thats "better", doesnt mean it was a smart purchase. And rollos 5800 was definitely not a smart purchase considering it was a downgrade to the previously top of the line 9800Pro. The 9800 pro clearly beats the 5900, and the 5900 clearly beats the 5800, see where im getting at?
so him spending HIS hard earned cash just should NOT be allowed right?
Ok Rollo hand over the wallet we are gonna have to moderate what you can buy now.....
And as for yoru friend HE felt it was a smart buy...regardless of what you think...its pretty lame to bash others for the way they spend THEIR money.
So by your mentallity the barbell in my tongue which is solid titanium and cost me a touch over 200$ (us) was a stupid buy as well right? Or the $140 I just dropped on a Danger Den S-TDX when I could have got a D-tek white water right? in simple...no to me both purchases were both worth EVERY cent.
And yeah I see where yoru come from about each different card beating out the next...but that is not the point....the point is he had each one of those cards and got bored with each one... and then in turned tried out the other companies options...nothing more. Are you going to tell me youve never got bored of something?
Originally posted by: VisableAssassin
Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: VisableAssassin
Originally posted by: fsstrike
Originally posted by: Rollo
Hey, it's Fsstrike, what can you expect? He talks about good hardware as if he's ever owned any (hasn't) and talks smack about guys who buy it on a whim and use it till they're tired of it.
That P4 1.5 and Ti4200 crankin' some Quake 2 for you there, little buddy?
BTW Big Chief- I never said my 5800U was "better" than the 9800Pro I traded for it. I said it was a neat card I'm glad I got a chance to try, that has performance comparable to the 9700 Pro I used to have back in the day.
I'll put it this way Chief- the only game I have I can't play 10X7 4X8X with no slowdowns is Painkiller, and that pumps a lot of polys. Why don't you try turning on the 4X8X and count the frames on your fingers?
:roll:
I dont play crappy games such as painkiller, so I wont be able to count for you. Sorry
Your bashing Rollo for his choice of card, and spout off about how you wont use anything NV because it gets 10FPS less than the 420 (this is hypothetical) and yet your sitting there running Q3 @ 16x12 with no AA or AF and your satisfied with only 45-75 frames? then you play CS at 16x12 with 2xAA and 2x AF.
And yet Im fairly sure Rollo's 5700U could crank out more than your setup is....hell Im really sure it could. Oh and BTW Painkiller is more of a b1tch to run than Q3 right off at the same settings I get less frames than I do in Q3....so for such a crappy game..it sure has the ability to pull hardware down slightly dont it?
But to make this short...am I the only who finds this guy funny?
Of course his system is better than mine, im not saying it isnt. One of my idiot buddies spent 2800$ on his machine. Its a p4 3.2C, 1024mb DDR 400 and 5200. Im sure his could beat mine, but was it really a smart buy? Of course not! 2800$ for an average system!? I dont think so. Just because someone buys expensive things, and has hardware thats "better", doesnt mean it was a smart purchase. And rollos 5800 was definitely not a smart purchase considering it was a downgrade to the previously top of the line 9800Pro. The 9800 pro clearly beats the 5900, and the 5900 clearly beats the 5800, see where im getting at?
so him spending HIS hard earned cash just should NOT be allowed right?
Ok Rollo hand over the wallet we are gonna have to moderate what you can buy now.....
And as for yoru friend HE felt it was a smart buy...regardless of what you think...its pretty lame to bash others for the way they spend THEIR money.
So by your mentallity the barbell in my tongue which is solid titanium and cost me a touch over 200$ (us) was a stupid buy as well right? Or the $140 I just dropped on a Danger Den S-TDX when I could have got a D-tek white water right? in simple...no to me both purchases were both worth EVERY cent.
And yeah I see where yoru come from about each different card beating out the next...but that is not the point....the point is he had each one of those cards and got bored with each one... and then in turned tried out the other companies options...nothing more. Are you going to tell me youve never got bored of something?
Im not saying someone can't spend their money the way they want, but is it wrong to acknowledge a bad purchase? Say your at the store with your buddy, and he see's 2 vid cards on the rack. One of them is a 5800 NU, and the other is a 9800Pro with a free VGA silencer that comes with it. Your friend asks you which one he should buy, what are you going to tell him?
Ok, if you say so.
Here's Call of Duty
Besides, its pretty much obvious that for one reason or another, the most demanding games out there today are all Direct3d. And in those, comparing a 5900 to a 9800 is like comparing a school bus to a Ferrari.
Now here's a challenge for you. Name ONE game that is unplayable on a 9800 and playable on a 5900 at the same setting. Define playable however you like.
Actually, I have a 5800U, which is a lot faster than a 5700U VisableAssasin. (but thanks for the support)
Sigh.
FSStrike, I have a 5800Ultra. I can link to a fair amount of benchmarks that show it to be equal or better than a 9700PRO.
Why you seem to need to put me down for trading my 9800Pro for a 5800Ultra, I do not know. 9800Pros were selling for $210 brand new at the time, and 5800 Ultras were going for about $175 used. The dollar value of the cards was pretty comparable, I threw in $27 for a Silencer to deal with a person of DaPunisher's character.
You don't seem to understand:
I had been using a 9800Pro for 8 months, I was pretty familiar with what it could and could not do. I could buy a 9800Pro any day of any week and not care, so it was no "loss". I knew I'd be upgrading to a X800XT or 6800U within 3-4 months, so it's not like I was changing my life forever. My 4 year old will get the 5800U, it's way better than the Ti4200 he was using at the time.
Short version: If the cost of two items doesn't mean much to you, trading one for another ins't a big deal.
FSStrike, I have a 5800Ultra. I can link to a fair amount of benchmarks that show it to be equal or better than a 9700PRO.
Why you seem to need to put me down for trading my 9800Pro for a 5800Ultra, I do not know. 9800Pros were selling for $210 brand new at the time, and 5800 Ultras were going for about $175 used. The dollar value of the cards was pretty comparable, I threw in $27 for a Silencer to deal with a person of DaPunisher's character.
You don't seem to understand:
I had been using a 9800Pro for 8 months, I was pretty familiar with what it could and could not do. I could buy a 9800Pro any day of any week and not care, so it was no "loss". I knew I'd be upgrading to a X800XT or 6800U within 3-4 months, so it's not like I was changing my life forever. My 4 year old will get the 5800U, it's way better than the Ti4200 he was using at the time.
Short version: If the cost of two items doesn't mean much to you, trading one for another ins't a big deal.
that was a typo man LOL I know full well youve got a 5800U...this type of thing happons when your at work trying to post
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Challenge accepted. I would have to say all games are unplayable on a 9800. Now hear me out. If your playing COD, you need a certain Catalyst driver version to run it correctly. God forbid you want to play another game, you have to change the damn driver so you can play it. I'm not saying this happens with every game of course, but it is very common amoung ATI users to have to constantly change their drivers to get the game they want to play to run right. With the 5900, it is very, very rare that a driver change is needed to play a game correctly without issues. Some ATI users probably made up and Excel spreadsheet of what drivers to use with which game. Hilarious. I had to go through it myself with a 9700 and I'll be damned if I do it again. I am a heavy gamer so I wont even bother listing what I play. Just know its a ton of different games. My 5900U with 53.03's ( I had to look up what I had because its been so long since I installed them) has run every single solitary game without issue. No need for me to tweak this or update that or registry hack the other thing. Runs. ATI has been plagued by this crap and its happening again with the X800pro's. Do a search. So yes, games are unplayable on a 9800 that are playable on a 5900. Ten times over.
You know what? Lets forget it. If your happy, im happy. I dont care about your 5800 anymore. nVidia and ATI = the same. Happy happy joy joy lets have a party.
now if you are not being sarcastic....your starting to think some what rational now
(no im not trying to be an ass)
That's not what I meant Technically though, unless it's unplayable with all ATI drivers, it doesn't count.
Look's like you've had bad luck. I know a lot of people who have had minimal problems with their ATI cards.
Technically though, unless it's unplayable with all ATI drivers, it doesn't count. Look's like you've had bad luck. I know a lot of people who have had minimal problems with their ATI cards.
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