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SM 3.0 IQ Benifits

imported_Noob

Senior member
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.
 
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

theres already a flaming thread on this....dont add fuel the fire man, she cant take no more!
unless of course your looking for a bonfire to toast your marshmallows on
 
This Whole forum is 1 big flame, ive never got in so many agruements elsewhere or in live chat like IRC.

I dont know why i even bother, as i never really ask for help, i try help others then some smartarse knows better.
 
It's almost as bad as the NV vs. 3Dfx wars back in the day. But I'm sure this is common fare on most of the hardware forums.
 
Only the fanatics and idiots are really arguing against SM 3.0 at this point, it is included in ATi's upcoming part at which point it is no longer an argument.

With that said- SM 3.0 helps collapse the amount of passes so are capable of doing more in less(or the same) time. Right now some of the additional features the SM 3.0 parts have are giving them a bit of advantage over SM 2.0 parts(just as there are certain capabilities that current SM 3.0 parts lack that other SM 3.0 are nigh certain to show off).
 
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

theres already a flaming thread on this....dont add fuel the fire man, she cant take no more!
unless of course your looking for a bonfire to toast your marshmallows on

There's some controversy about SM3?


Who knew?!?!?!?
 
lavaheadache, I completed FarCRy on a o/c G 4 TI4600 at med/high settings, so i only seen it on my Ultra with HDR, after i reinstalled to mess about with it, and i didnt count fps, but it looked fine to my eyes with every setting maxed with AA full with no HDR then same again with settings maxed no AA and HDR, ok you get jagged edges with no AA, but in Doom 3 ROE no AA alooked fine esp at 1600x1200.

These card are 1 year old and are first to do this so new ones may have AA and HDR running same time, look upon it as a free feature, you use or you dont, but games are now out with P.S 3.0 and DX9C, soon HDR ie add on to HL2.
 
*Orders blue plate@local diner* Look at this steak! I can still see the marks where the AT vid forum members were beating it!
 
HDR has nothing to do with sm3. The way HDR is done in Farcry it uses the FP buffers, and only the gf6 cards have them. You can also do HDR using shaders, in which case you don't need sm3 and that's the way it will probably be done in HL2. Anyway, we have already argued enough about the current usefulness of sm3, and it's getting old. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Originally posted by: hans030390
.....

go to google...type in "shader model 3"

there are many sites with lots of information on it...

I have tried that and all of them are about Far Cry and it's HDR. I'm looking for an article that shows all the extra benefits (specific names of the technologies) in SM 3.0 that enhance IQ and P.
 
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

 
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

I hear something about Parallax Mapping and Tone Mapping or something like that that will be used heavily in U3. People were using that as an example and posting screenshots. So I assume this offers IQ enhancement? Or was that just normal mapping itself. I asked a few questions in the other SM 3.0 thread about some of these new technologies but people were too into the flaming. So I just decided too post my own thread.
 
Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Only the fanatics and idiots are really arguing against SM 3.0 at this point, it is included in ATi's upcoming part at which point it is no longer an argument.

With that said- SM 3.0 helps collapse the amount of passes so are capable of doing more in less(or the same) time. Right now some of the additional features the SM 3.0 parts have are giving them a bit of advantage over SM 2.0 parts(just as there are certain capabilities that current SM 3.0 parts lack that other SM 3.0 are nigh certain to show off).

 
Originally posted by: Noob
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

I hear something about Parallax Mapping and Tone Mapping or something like that that will be used heavily in U3. People were using that as an example and posting screenshots. So I assume this offers IQ enhancement? Or was that just normal mapping itself. I asked a few questions in the other SM 3.0 thread about some of these new technologies but people were too into the flaming. So I just decided too post my own thread.

Parallax Mapping is a more sophisticated version of normal mapping (it's between regular normal mapping and displacement mapping). I'm not sure if you would need SM3.0 to do it -- it's probably easier to do with SM3.0, at the very least. Tone mapping is (very basically) a limited form of HDR applied to texture surfaces (at least I think. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else.) I believe you could do Tone Mapping in SM2.0.

PS3.0 basically does not offer any IQ improvements by itself over PS2.0. What it does is to allow potentially much longer shaders (up to 64K instructions), and it adds dynamic branching instructions (making it easier to write longer and more complex shaders). Now, by using a longer single shader rather than multiple short ones, you might increase performance slightly. However, today's cards cannot really run exceedingly long shaders without slowing everything down way too much, so this does not do as much as you might think.

VS3.0 adds a few more interesting features. One is geometry instancing, which lets you create multiple copies of an object without having to store multiple copies of it in the video card's memory. This lets you (theoretically) reduce RAM usage and possibly increase performance. However, it is also available via ATI's PS2.0b. The more interesting new feature is that VS3.0 vertex shaders can now access the card's memory; among other things, this allows for hardware displacement mapping, which can do some pretty cool stuff. However, it is likely to have an enormous performance hit if used in any nontrivial way, since it not only puts a high load on the vertex shaders, but greatly increases the load on both the fixed-function pipeline and pixel shaders (something has to draw those extra triangles).

The Geforce6 also has support for OpenEXR floating-point framebuffers. This is what is used to do the HDR rendering in Far Cry and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. On the GeForce6, AA is disabled while this feature is in use (but theoretically, future cards may not have this restriction). This is not part of SM3.0, but a totally separate standard that NVIDIA chose to support on NV40. I am not sure if R5XX will support this.
 
Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
*Orders blue plate@local diner* Look at this steak! I can still see the marks where the AT vid forum members were beating it!


lol nice one Dapunisher
Classic Dangerfield from Caddy Shack 🙂

 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

I hear something about Parallax Mapping and Tone Mapping or something like that that will be used heavily in U3. People were using that as an example and posting screenshots. So I assume this offers IQ enhancement? Or was that just normal mapping itself. I asked a few questions in the other SM 3.0 thread about some of these new technologies but people were too into the flaming. So I just decided too post my own thread.[/quote]

Parallax Mapping is a more sophisticated version of normal mapping (it's between regular normal mapping and displacement mapping). I'm not sure if you would need SM3.0 to do it -- it's probably easier to do with SM3.0, at the very least. Tone mapping is (very basically) a limited form of HDR applied to texture surfaces (at least I think. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else.) I believe you could do Tone Mapping in SM2.0.

PS3.0 basically does not offer any IQ improvements by itself over PS2.0. What it does is to allow potentially much longer shaders (up to 64K instructions), and it adds dynamic branching instructions (making it easier to write longer and more complex shaders). Now, by using a longer single shader rather than multiple short ones, you might increase performance slightly. However, today's cards cannot really run exceedingly long shaders without slowing everything down way too much, so this does not do as much as you might think.

VS3.0 adds a few more interesting features. One is geometry instancing, which lets you create multiple copies of an object without having to store multiple copies of it in the video card's memory. This lets you (theoretically) reduce RAM usage and possibly increase performance. However, it is also available via ATI's PS2.0b. The more interesting new feature is that VS3.0 vertex shaders can now access the card's memory; among other things, this allows for hardware displacement mapping, which can do some pretty cool stuff. However, it is likely to have an enormous performance hit if used in any nontrivial way, since it not only puts a high load on the vertex shaders, but greatly increases the load on both the fixed-function pipeline and pixel shaders (something has to draw those extra triangles).

The Geforce6 also has support for OpenEXR floating-point framebuffers. This is what is used to do the HDR rendering in Far Cry and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. On the GeForce6, AA is disabled while this feature is in use (but theoretically, future cards may not have this restriction). This is not part of SM3.0, but a totally separate standard that NVIDIA chose to support on NV40. I am not sure if R5XX will support this.[/quote]Thank you sir, most informative :beer: Tech articles on graphics cards are ponderous reading for me so the cliff notes version is sweet!

 
Originally posted by: Noob
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

I hear something about Parallax Mapping and Tone Mapping or something like that that will be used heavily in U3. People were using that as an example and posting screenshots. So I assume this offers IQ enhancement? Or was that just normal mapping itself. I asked a few questions in the other SM 3.0 thread about some of these new technologies but people were too into the flaming. So I just decided too post my own thread.

Gotcha.. 😉

 
Originally posted by: Matthias99
Originally posted by: Noob
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Noob
What are the IQ improvements that SM 3.0 offers over 2.0b?

Plases let this not turn into a useless flame war. Let this just be for informational puproses only.

You already know that there is no difference in IQ. I have seen you in enough SM3.0 threads so why are you even asking this? SM3.0 is supposed to offer better performance due to less overhead. SM3.0 is more efficient than SM2.0/2.0b. Nobody has seen any IQ differences as far as I know. In the future, who knows.

I hear something about Parallax Mapping and Tone Mapping or something like that that will be used heavily in U3. People were using that as an example and posting screenshots. So I assume this offers IQ enhancement? Or was that just normal mapping itself. I asked a few questions in the other SM 3.0 thread about some of these new technologies but people were too into the flaming. So I just decided too post my own thread.

Parallax Mapping is a more sophisticated version of normal mapping (it's between regular normal mapping and displacement mapping). I'm not sure if you would need SM3.0 to do it -- it's probably easier to do with SM3.0, at the very least. Tone mapping is (very basically) a limited form of HDR applied to texture surfaces (at least I think. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else.) I believe you could do Tone Mapping in SM2.0.

PS3.0 basically does not offer any IQ improvements by itself over PS2.0. What it does is to allow potentially much longer shaders (up to 64K instructions), and it adds dynamic branching instructions (making it easier to write longer and more complex shaders). Now, by using a longer single shader rather than multiple short ones, you might increase performance slightly. However, today's cards cannot really run exceedingly long shaders without slowing everything down way too much, so this does not do as much as you might think.

VS3.0 adds a few more interesting features. One is geometry instancing, which lets you create multiple copies of an object without having to store multiple copies of it in the video card's memory. This lets you (theoretically) reduce RAM usage and possibly increase performance. However, it is also available via ATI's PS2.0b. The more interesting new feature is that VS3.0 vertex shaders can now access the card's memory; among other things, this allows for hardware displacement mapping, which can do some pretty cool stuff. However, it is likely to have an enormous performance hit if used in any nontrivial way, since it not only puts a high load on the vertex shaders, but greatly increases the load on both the fixed-function pipeline and pixel shaders (something has to draw those extra triangles).

The Geforce6 also has support for OpenEXR floating-point framebuffers. This is what is used to do the HDR rendering in Far Cry and Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. On the GeForce6, AA is disabled while this feature is in use (but theoretically, future cards may not have this restriction). This is not part of SM3.0, but a totally separate standard that NVIDIA chose to support on NV40. I am not sure if R5XX will support this.

Thank you! Very imformative. It answers many of my questions.
 
Nice summary, Matthias. One slight correction: geometry instancing apparently has been an ATI hardware feature since the 9700P. So, it's certainly not PS2.b, not even VS2.b--it's just a feature of all of ATI's DX9/SM2 hardware. But MS wants GI to be an official feature of VS3.0 only, so ATI cards apparently can't let games know they support it through the official channel. Games can detect it through an alternate method, though.
 
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