imported_Noob
Senior member
Does anybody know a link that lists in a chart form (something organized like that) that shows the features off all the Shader versions?
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SM 3.0 IQ Benifits
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What's your mental problem NOW, housecat?
I've never argued against SM3.0. I've always said that SM3.0 is the direction the industry is heading. My point has been that we don't need SM3.0 hardware yet as SM2.0 hardware can do nearly everything SM3.0 can. By the time SM3.0 games are out in force, current hardware will be considered low end and will have to run those games at reduced settings in order to maintain an acceptable framerate.
I really dont want to turn this into some ATI fanboys dream of a SM3 flamewar.. but just tell me: why when current hardware is lowend, will those new games have to use reduced settings in order to maintain an acceptable frame rate?
And once you explain that, wheres the evidence?
Or are you just trolling around blasting off at the mouth how you essentially hope, dream and wish that DX9C hardware like the NV40 fails.. so that you can say "SEE I TOLD YOU SO!" and the multitudes who went with a NV40 are let down?
You would take joy in that you sick bastard.
If there is no evidence to support your claim, then arent you just trolling?
otispunkmeyer
Lifer
Housecat vs Creig
round 1
FIGHT!!!!
round 1
FIGHT!!!!
imported_humey
Senior member
toattett, Who cares if you hate us or not, its as easy for the lazy bastards to use search or and google instead us doing all the work. :Q
I have pasted plenty info in this troll/flammers forum and your one of them. :|
I aint gonna go look for something that a n00b could find in 10seconds if they even took the time to try. :disgust:
If you got nothing constructive to add why not STFU. 🙂
I have pasted plenty info in this troll/flammers forum and your one of them. :|
I aint gonna go look for something that a n00b could find in 10seconds if they even took the time to try. :disgust:
If you got nothing constructive to add why not STFU. 🙂
Keysplayr
Elite Member
Creig, I understand where your coming from. But, some people do not like to settle for "nearly". That's really what this is all about for me. I don't really waste a lot of time thinking about things I don't need. I know that I have what I need, when it is needed.
Cheers.
BTW, I just uninstalled every game I own from my PC's. I'm done with gaming. Eats up too much time, or should I say, wastes it. Call it a Revelation.. Now to get rid of these video cards. 😉
Who want's em? Check Sig.
So you wanna answer Creig or you admitting to being owned? These were serious questions, I really want to know what kind of answer you have. Besides 'grow up', if you are going to continue to duck and hide I'll note this as an official time and place that you were owned by the housecat.
Then you can't deny it any longer that "you never recall being owned by Rollo or The Housecat".
You didnt read his post and my response.
Your response is out of context. Hes referring to having to run reduced settings in the pixel and vertex shader settings..
example hes speaking of: a GF6 6800 will not be able to run SM3 in future SM3 games, because its SM3 implementation is too slow.
If he was NOT referring to the GF6's SM3 of being a slow implementation (as you took it), then it was a completely retarded comment by Creig.
As you are correct, that is the way cards go by the wayside like a 9500 Pro not being able to run 1600x1200 in Doom3, ect.
But he did not mean that, and it would be blatantly stupid for him to point something such as that out.
Of course someday the GF6 will need lower res ect to play new games, but I'd like to know WHY he staunchy insists that GF6 SM3 is too slow for future games.. technicalities he could point out maybe?
Then show me some kind of benchmark proof, some kind of proof at all showing this result in real world applications. ?
If he can't answer question A, nor back it up with a reply to question B..
then the answer must simply be C. which is: hes just trolling as he knows nothing about future performance of SM3 in to-be-released game engines.
Your response is out of context. Hes referring to having to run reduced settings in the pixel and vertex shader settings..
example hes speaking of: a GF6 6800 will not be able to run SM3 in future SM3 games, because its SM3 implementation is too slow.
If he was NOT referring to the GF6's SM3 of being a slow implementation (as you took it), then it was a completely retarded comment by Creig.
As you are correct, that is the way cards go by the wayside like a 9500 Pro not being able to run 1600x1200 in Doom3, ect.
But he did not mean that, and it would be blatantly stupid for him to point something such as that out.
Of course someday the GF6 will need lower res ect to play new games, but I'd like to know WHY he staunchy insists that GF6 SM3 is too slow for future games.. technicalities he could point out maybe?
Then show me some kind of benchmark proof, some kind of proof at all showing this result in real world applications. ?
If he can't answer question A, nor back it up with a reply to question B..
then the answer must simply be C. which is: hes just trolling as he knows nothing about future performance of SM3 in to-be-released game engines.
I think you are confused, reread my edited post above it has more info on the situation and the question I'm posing to him.
If you do truley agree with him, then you answer the question:
WHY is the GF6 SM3 implementation too slow for acceptable performance in future games?
And when your done with that one, show me the real-world game engine proof please..
otherwise, its just trolling.. theres nothing to back those statements up then. Its ATI fanboy blathering. Or merely a troll who is uneducated.. I'm just saying educate me and the rest of us as to why its too slow!
Arguing with facts is too much for this place anymore?
I am contending he knows nothing about what hes claiming, and has no proof whatsoever.
If you do truley agree with him, then you answer the question:
WHY is the GF6 SM3 implementation too slow for acceptable performance in future games?
And when your done with that one, show me the real-world game engine proof please..
otherwise, its just trolling.. theres nothing to back those statements up then. Its ATI fanboy blathering. Or merely a troll who is uneducated.. I'm just saying educate me and the rest of us as to why its too slow!
Arguing with facts is too much for this place anymore?
I am contending he knows nothing about what hes claiming, and has no proof whatsoever.
Creig:
1. You don't know when SM3 games will be "out in force", so you can't say this. No one would have thought Ubi would have left all non-SM3 owners out with SC:CT, but they did.
2.How many more games is "out in force" and what do you consider the useful life of card for an "average" gamer? I'd say most gamers update at some point between one and two years. Since you don't know, and can't, if other exclusively SM3 games will be out in the next 12-24 months, why would anyone buy a X800 with it's SM2 2003 feature set today?
3. SM3 is only part of the the nV40s advantage.
It totally mystifies me why you're still promoting hardware you've never used with this fervor?
I've used 3 forms of SLI (still have 2) and used an X800XT PE for a couple months- I'm here to tell you there's no real reason to buy ATI at this point in time.
I also don't think a person can get a true feel for what owning a card is like until they do. For example, my X800XT PE benched about the same in Doom3 as my 6800GT- but the 6800GT played the game MUCH smoother.
There will likely be pretty good reasons to buy ATI again in Q3/4 of this year, but you're not doing anyone any favors by helping the ATI apologists for the X800 series. The cards don't stand up.
I would agree with you if they had a speed advantage that amounted to "here's 5 popular games you can play at 16X12 4X8X on a X850 XT PE that you can't on a 6800U", but it's more like "here's five popular games you can play at an unnoticeable difference faster". If you can't tell with the counter off, why would you care?
Doesn't seem like a fair trade for SM3, EXR HDR, soft shadows, and SLI expandibility/power to me.
imported_humey
Senior member
Creig, You state you aint against P.S 3.0 but say we dont need this hardware yet.
Well whats the prob with having the hardware, you can choose to run it in whatever mode the new games menu settings allow you to, look upon it as free, like a working PvP (6200/6600 range cards), even if you dont watch or de/encode moves.
I would still state fact that a non DX9C card purchase in may 2005 is madness, unless its to save cash and you not a gammer, but then you could buy a cheapo 6200 card and still have latest DX.
Well whats the prob with having the hardware, you can choose to run it in whatever mode the new games menu settings allow you to, look upon it as free, like a working PvP (6200/6600 range cards), even if you dont watch or de/encode moves.
I would still state fact that a non DX9C card purchase in may 2005 is madness, unless its to save cash and you not a gammer, but then you could buy a cheapo 6200 card and still have latest DX.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
9500pro? Good card in it's time, but for today? You have got to be kidding me.
I had no idea that you did not own an X800 based card the way you have been debating all of these issues. Well, in a sense, you do actually own a X800/50 feature set.
You can get a decent idea from reviews, benches, other owners about how a card works and performs, but there is no substitute for owning one or more of the cards you so emphatically debate.
I have owned:
2x 9700pro
9500pro
X800XTPE (still own but trying to sell)
5900nu
5900U
6800nu(still own)
PNY 6800GT (still own)
2x BFG 6800GT's (still own)
When I got the X800XTPE, I REALLY put it to the test against my BFG6800GT. It was only marginally faster in SOME games and slower in others. I thought to myself, "Well, I could leave the XT in my PC and not really notice any performance difference, but, what about the GT? What does it offer that the XT can't? That was all it took. XT came out and went up for sale, GT went in and will stay there.
I'm not saying you HAVE to own these cards to get a decent idea of what to expect. I'm saying you HAVE to own them to actually form an authentic, valid opinion between the differences or lack of that nobody can dispute because it is right there in front of you and is based on the owners experience..
Kinda makes the debating person look asinine in a way.
I can tell you about my experiences, but you still can't truly know or believe it until you try it for yourself.
dug777
Lifer
just out of interest, whats the deal with PVP, in the last review i read (that one on the GammaChrome linked to on AT no less, so today 😉 ) both the X600 and the S18 pumped the 6200 and 6600 in the A$$ when it came to video decoding 😉
http://www.beyond3d.com/previews/s3/s18/index.php?p=21
EDIT: my take on it is that buying into a x800xl is the smartest thing you could do right now for price/performance at the high-end, if you really want a sm3.0 enabled card that can actually handle it properly in the future you only have to wait a few months 😉
Its the classic Fx series all over again, oh yeah says nvidia, these cards are all dx9 beasts at release, and look where those cards are now 😉 I think my 9800 pro doubles the score of its equivalent FX series partner in 3dmark05, and for good reason, have a look at the FX series dx9 performance in hl2 😉
imported_humey
Senior member
dug777, the FX's were a joke and thats risk Nvidia took moving to new process instead of doing what ATI are doing and holding on to a old process that will eventually be a endstop like a brick wall, ive said this many times its on WWW and ATI may get same probs when they jump over to.
Nvidia choose to jump sooner rather than later.
Nvidia got over that bad hurdle and N40 is a great gpu, and still no one today need buy a non DX9C card.
The new Nvidia cards are 100% DX9C hardware cards, we all know FX had probs on DX9, MS were partly to blame for fooking all users about with its late release.
Of topic the PvP still needs new WMP with added dll's but i know my N40 wont work so thats why i am due a new card as i took action, but its not final till WMP claims it does purevideo, i have the drivers finally and encoder. 2 out of 3 aspect.
Back on topic, WTF does a POS FX card have to do with todays cards ?, you may as well quote a G Force MX2.
Nvidia choose to jump sooner rather than later.
Nvidia got over that bad hurdle and N40 is a great gpu, and still no one today need buy a non DX9C card.
The new Nvidia cards are 100% DX9C hardware cards, we all know FX had probs on DX9, MS were partly to blame for fooking all users about with its late release.
Of topic the PvP still needs new WMP with added dll's but i know my N40 wont work so thats why i am due a new card as i took action, but its not final till WMP claims it does purevideo, i have the drivers finally and encoder. 2 out of 3 aspect.
Back on topic, WTF does a POS FX card have to do with todays cards ?, you may as well quote a G Force MX2.
dug777
Lifer
😕
wtf? Are you really that retarded?
Of course i can, i just did 😉
I'll explain it again, really slowly shall i?
OK, i am comparing the immature development of the dx9 hardware on the FX series, with the immature development of the SM3.0 hardware on the 6XXX series...does that make sense to you?
We are already seeing that the 6XXX series really can't handle full sm3.0 (riddick anyone?), so i'm saying if you want to enjoy SM3.0 properly, wait a couple of months and get a card that will actually be able to handle it in the future, cos i'm betting the 6XXX series won't be able too, or get a x800xl thats the best bang for buck atm, then buy a SM3.0 card in 6 months time when you really need it 😉
U understand me now?
imported_humey
Senior member
I can run Riddick on my Ultra, have you even see in front of you a Ultra running ?
Your a Troll and you make little smile faces to try make it lighter, but fact is your unpopular here so but out and stop taking about past products that have 0 to do with new cards, go and read why FX was a ballsup and learn something as you know nothing.
Just pray ATI learn by Nvidias mistake when they get of 2.5 years old tech and move to the new manu process.
Your a Troll and you make little smile faces to try make it lighter, but fact is your unpopular here so but out and stop taking about past products that have 0 to do with new cards, go and read why FX was a ballsup and learn something as you know nothing.
Just pray ATI learn by Nvidias mistake when they get of 2.5 years old tech and move to the new manu process.
dug777
Lifer
:shocked:
if you can't see the point i'm trying to make by comparing the FX series dx9 implementation with the 6XXX series sm3.0 implementation then how bout actually arguing like an adult with facts rather than flaming me like a 6-year old?
i'm just telling it like it is IMHO...if you have a problem don't spit the dummy and flame people, go out and prove me wrong like a man 😉
imported_humey
Senior member
You have called me childish and a 6 year old, fact is your the n00b that know nothing about gpus, and you cant comment on any new ati or nvidia as your on a old POS card.
I think others will agree and back me up, your comments have no meaning as there uncompairable.
Dont make others out the Troll/Flammers, as your only in this thread to cause that and you were the one to actually start it when a user posted a demo, that you didnt need to comment on if you cant run or wont run.
You must have a very sad life if you have nothing to do but pester users.
I used to get mad now i dont bother my arse as i know you are cocky here on WWW, but in the street your a pussy.
I think others will agree and back me up, your comments have no meaning as there uncompairable.
Dont make others out the Troll/Flammers, as your only in this thread to cause that and you were the one to actually start it when a user posted a demo, that you didnt need to comment on if you cant run or wont run.
You must have a very sad life if you have nothing to do but pester users.
I used to get mad now i dont bother my arse as i know you are cocky here on WWW, but in the street your a pussy.
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