Slow Speeds In Raid 0 3-way

[radeson]

Hello all,
I recently bought 4 samsung 850 pro 256gb ssd drives. I had the intention of putting them in raid 0 to get some super out of this world off the charts I/O speeds. I have a pretty beastly AMD rig. Asus Crosshair V Z mobo, AMD FX9590 Black Edition, 16gb 2400Mhz Gskill ram, 3x Radeon R9 290 all of it watercooled. Anyways, I installed the 4 ssd's the other day and I used the on-board raid drivers, (Option Rom) and set it all to default settings (read ahead/write back) all the good stuff. I didn't change anything in the create LD menu in Option Rom while setting it up. Well, I ran some benchmarks as soon as I booted, and was very disapoined to be getting 1150/1250 read/write. Keep in mind that Samsung 850 pro is pretty much the best ssd out right now without going the PCI express route. I should be getting close to, if not over 2000/2000. Well then, I found out that I couldn't enable "Rapid Mode" through the included Samsung software while running Raid. So i decided to re-do the array with only 3 drives and try one of them in rapid mode.
The results i got from rapid mode were out of this world. something like 3500/3700 read/write on ATTO disk benchmark. So naturally i reinstalled windows on the Rapid Mode SSD. So now I'm left with a 3-way raid 0 that's not living up to its potential. Because I'm still getting like 1150/1250 read write speeds with ATTO. I should be getting like 1400-1500. I even tried taking down the array on Option Rom and try running it on windows diskmanager with a "striped drive". Which still yielded the same results. Will someone with some experience PLEASE HELP!!!! I feel like I wasted my money on these drives. I cant find anywhere on the internet how to fix this problem. Thank you

 

[radeson]

I've been thinking that maybe the bandwidth on my sata might max out at some point and maybe thats why i cant get it to go any faster. huh

 

[Z15CAM]

The results i got from rapid mode were out of this world. something like 3500/3700 read/write on ATTO disk benchmark.

Apparently he's getting Rapid Spd with a Samsung SSD mounted on the SATA Controller enabled in RAID Mode (Thus AHCI Mode) and NOT a Member of an Array. TRIM works but the same issue is reported about Intel SATA MB Controllers and we are not certain as of yet if TRIM works if the Samsung SSD's are a member of an array. In each case of hardware, Magician (RAPID) is USELESS when their SDD's are mounted on a SATA Controller enabled in RAID Mode - WTF Samsung.

So I suggest you install your MB's SATA Controller Rapid Storage Software like Intel's IRST Dvr and forget about Samsung's Magician Rapid CRAP that doesn't recognize if their SSD's are mounted on a SATA Controller enabled in RAID Mode.

BIG Issue and Samsung is responsible to FIX-IT.

By the way I like your platform and it's not the issue. If Samsung plugs their Magician Software they should include Rapid when their SSD's are mounted on a SATA Controller set in RAID Mode whether or not the SSD is a member or not a member of an array.

 

[Cerb]

AMD's controllers are slower than Intel's, and Intel's slower than LSI's. An LSI 9200 series would likely be faster, but I'm not sure by how much. 1.6GBps read/1.5GBps write will be pretty much best case, going from AT's review.

Neither RAID 0 nor RAPID will be of any benefit if you don't have a use case for them, though.

 

[radeson]

On my Mobo I have 8 sata ports. 6 of them i can use for raid. I.e. when i enable raid on prts 1-4, then prts 5,6 are automatically set to raid also. so ports 7,8 named SATA6G_E1; and SATA6G_E2, are to be used for optical drives and hard drives that you dont want to use in raid during an OS instalation. I noticed that these two ports are not visable in my sata configuration in BIOS, but anything connected to them is visable in Boot manager in BIOS. SO i can select one of the drives hooked up to E1, or E2 in my Boot priorities.

Another weird thing, When i have a regular hdd hooked up to one of the first 6 ports when set to run as RAID it still recognizes it. but i also have another Crucial m100 256gb ssd, and if i have that hooked up to one of the raided ports it isnt recognized in windows like the hdd. It is recognized in Option rom and in Bios though.... weird.. But just to emphasize here that i dont think this has anything to do with my initial problem stated above.

Also i just tried to set up a spanned volume under the windows controller via disk management. I tred enabling RAPID mode on one of the drives in the array, because for some reason samsung magician can now recognize all 4 of my samsung ssd's. So i tried picking one of the drives that's in the spanned volume array and enabling RAPID mode, with no change in any benchmarks. Which if RAPID mode was truly enabled on all three drives in the array then the benchmark numbers would be off the charts. I also tried doing this on a striped drive array enabled in windows disk manager. At least i can get magician to recognize the drives. But from what ive found so far is that you can only enable rapid mode on ONE drive only. LOL No matter how hard i try to weasel my way through the cracks on this one im having no luck.

I just tried to put only two drives in a raid 0 array and im getting 980/1032 write/read MB/s. That is only like 100 MB/s less than my 3 drive array which seems to be maxing out at 1278/1190 write/read. this is the same max that i find running a 4 way raid 0. Please help nI should be getting close to 2gb/s with a 4 way in theory. i really hope what cerb said isnt true. Then is seems i would have been better off getting a 1tb samsung sdd than 4x256

 

[Cerb]

- Ports 0-5 are AMD. The other two are somebody else's (probably Marvell or Asmedia).
- If you have RAID mode on, that's dependent on firmware and drivers for AMD RAID. New Windows seem to include compatible drivers, else you must get AMD's. Samsung's software can't be used, then.
- If you have RAID off, and Magician can be used, then you can use RAPID on a drive. It caches. Sustained loads won't benefit, and small IOs don't benefit.
- A good new RAID controller, that should get near 2GBps from the combined 4 drives, costs more than your motherboard did, and that still won't guarantee that kind of speed, just increase your chances of being able to get it.
- Do you do anything but benchmarking that makes use of more drive bandwidth? It may well have been better to just get the single big drive, or a native PCIe drive (not Sandforce RAID), if not.

 

[radeson]

Asmedia, yes

 

[radeson]

i dont do much but game honestly. Im kind of new to the whole world of ssd drives and i guess i didnt do enough research. So Cerb, you think that my mobo is maxing out at these speeds and thats why i cant get any higher than 1.2gb/s???

I Wanted a system that would instantly load most of my games. And i have to admit that it has gotten significantly faster, but its not instant. close, but no cigar.

 

[radeson]

Also, If i did want to get crazy and waste my money on a new raid controller, I have 3 huge GPU's in the way of my spare pci ports. so Im kinda screwed there too.

 

[Cerb]

Definitely. Intel's controllers were getting higher speeds some time ago, and I've seen some bragging of nearly 3GBps w/ LSI cards. For just gaming, a single 1TB will be fine. It's only big file copies where you're going to gain, like if you did software-based streaming, and needed a good bit of raw storage bandwidth while recording it. You can copy files within the volume typically at >150MPbs, up to 300MBps for bigger files. That should increase almost linearly with drives added (up to a point, anyway, apparently around 1GBps), but most everything else is going to be more about the latency per operation, which RAID doesn't do anything for (generalization, but true for this scenario).

 

[Z15CAM]

This is my latest ATTO Disk Bench for a single Samsung 840 Pro 256 MB SSD on an i7 2700K/ASUS P8Z68-V Pro GEN3 platform mounted on an Intel SATA Controller enabled in RAID Mode and not a Member of an Array (Thus AHCI Mode). Not too shabby result.

I run the latest Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) RAID Driver v13.2.4.1000 and Samsung Magician with their Rapid Storage Option is USELESS when their SSD's are mounted on a Controller Enabled in RAID Mode.

Wake Up Samsung.!

 

[radeson]

Well, i have these 4 Samsung SSD's now. So do you think it is wise to run one in RAPID MODE, with my OS? (I have it like this now and it boots considerably faster than my old Crucial m100 256gb sdd). And do you think it is wise to keep the other 3 in 3 way raid 0 Even if it is maxing out my SATA III bus??

 

[radeson]

yes, z15cam, In order to run RAPID MODE you need to have you controller set to ACHI mode. WTF

 

[Z15CAM]

yes, z15cam, In order to run RAPID MODE you need to have you controller set to ACHI mode. WTF

Geez! You can mount your Samsung SSD on a SATA Controller enabled in RAID Mode and it will be in ACHI Mode as long as it's NOT a member of an array BUT Samsung's stupid Magician software doesn't see it - That's my point. - So you're best to use your MB's Rapid Storage Driver Software (IRST-Whatever) if you're are using other Drives in RAID Arrays on the same SATA controller.

It's just a Marketing Patent War over SSD Rapid Storage and we as consumers are expendable yet pay for it.

Don't WTF me Puppy.

 

[radeson]

So i just tried to use "Primo Cache" and start my own version of RAPID MODE. It works amazingly. The only problem is when i run a bench mark it goes really fast for the first like 8 tests on atto bench. Then i think the cache gets full or something and it jumps from like 4gb/s down to 300mb/s then it gradually goes back up again... hmmm. some thing to play around with... Any advice anyone??

 

[Z15CAM]

For the OP of this thread: Yes attempt to run your Samsung SSD's as Members of a RAID Array then run "trimcheck-0.4.exe" to see if TRIM is working. Forget Samsung's stupid Magician Rapid Storage Software and use your MB's Rapid Storage Driver when the MB SATA Controller are enabled in RAID Mode.

Report Back - We are curious.

I would do it myself but I've only one Samsung SSD.

 

[radeson]

Where do i locate Trimcheck-0.4??

 

[Z15CAM]

radeson: Suggest you try RAMDisk and manually assign Win slough writes and App buffering to the virtual RAMDisk Drive Inage.

 

[radeson]

Did you just read my earlier post about primo cache?? will primo do this too?? If not how do i assign windows to do this. Im still kind of a newb in this area lol.

 

[Z15CAM]

radeson: I'm not holding a Seminar - Google will teach you but your on the right track on where to look ;o)

 

[radeson]

I found trimcheck and it seems to be telling me that trim is not working on my main single samsung hard drive and also on the three way striped volume. Which is set up to run through windows right now. I will reboot and set up a true raid 0. and see what happens. Trimcheck 0.7 said that i might need to re-boot to check status.

Also when i go to "disk optimization" in windows i can click optimize drive on my main drive and it says "trimming" and it only takes a couple of seconds. I tried this also and trimcheck is still saying that trim is not active... huh I will play around with it some more and let you know.

also. this primo-cache program does speed up things a bit so i have enabled my own little "rapid mode".

 

[Z15CAM]

Happy En-devour - By the way are you sure your SSD's are aligned.

I'm an addicted Sick Puppy too and if you feel you don't need all them Samsung SSD's contact me - LOL

 

[radeson]

What do you mean when you say "aligned"???? I have all of them in sata ports 0-3... 0,1,2,3 if thats what you mean

 

[Z15CAM]

You are a NooBe but I'll treat you to learn for yourself:

I EFI boot the Win7 x64-Bit Installation Image on a USB stick and run Diskpart to Align, and Partition my Drives before either installing Win or dumping my backup image onto the new drive whether it is an SSD or a HDD. Others may question why I do this but I got my reasons.

Google explanation about aligning SSD Partitions and how to check if your SSD Partitions are aligned (MSInfo):

http://lifehacker.com/5837769/make-...gned-for-optimal-solid-state-drive-performanc

http://us.hardware.info/reviews/4583/how-to-copy-hdd-to-ssd-with-correct-4k-alignment

These links are just to get you started - You will eventually work out a method of your own pending your Platform Design.

I highly recommend you learn how to boot and use Win7's Diskpart CMD commands to prepare Media before installing Win or Over-Writing Disks with your Win Backup Migration OS Images. I use a Symantec DOS Boot 1.34MB GHOST.EXE Cloning app - Others prefer GUI Cloning apps.

Google - Google and Google MORE!

But you also to have ask the right questions to find solutions to your inquisitive. It's a learning process that is very addictive. All I can do is give you HINTS as I can NOT do it for you, nor do I know what you have in mind.

 

[radeson]

SO....... I was given an answer on another thread in here about trim support for raid. According to this person, trim is NOT supported with RAID 0 on an amd board. So im gonna quit looking for awhile. so what i did is change everything back to ACHI and I created a spanned volume in windows disk manager. I cant manually trim the drive but i ran Trimcheck 0.7 and it says that trim appears to be working!!! i also have a 4gb cache set up for the drive and i get up to 4gb/s read speed (I have the cache set up for read only). I dont know if this is wise, but its what ive been playing around with lately.