Slavery still affects black people in america

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: oboeguy
Ugh, too long a thread to read at this hour. Anyway... the connections drawn by the OP are tenuous at best. There's a huge leap of logic in each one.

However, anyone who thinks segregation was abolished, say in schools, by Brown vs. Bd. of Ed. has absolutely no freaking clue. Try visiting a school in the South Bronx.

Anyway, racism is still a huge problem, no matter what people say, but slavery? Come on, you need to give a more connected argument for you to convince anyone.

Please explain the "South Bronx" thing to me. I don't want to go on what I assume you mean.

Sure. The South Bronx (or other "bad" neighborhoods) are full of dangerous, under-performing schools. Compare District 7 (SB) with District 2 (Upper East Side): 7 is like 99% minority (don't quote the number, not sure exactly), whereas 2 is full of (largely well-to-do) white kids. Regardless of the reasons, the difference in the quality of education is like night and day! Segregation is done? Whatever. BTW, I'm using the old District numbers; they recently changed.

 

[azazyel]

"Hey Tonto, why are you laughing so hard?"

 

[edro]

You always hear complaints about black racism... Get over it. If you live in a country that is 85% White, of course you are going to get racism, if for no other fact than you are different.

How do you think Indian-American, Mexican-American, Somali-American, Saudi-American...etc people feel? They got it a hell of a lot worse.

Racism is all about being different. It is the same if you are born with no face, born morbidly obese, born with no arms... you are always going to be treated differently...because you ARE different. That is the way society works for all animals.

Be lucky you're not a "different" hyena... where you would be eaten alive. 🙂

[This post is not directly pointed at Arkitech, I just like posting as if I am talking at someone.]

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: Arkitech

Originally posted by: Yossarian
I don't see how any of those things, most of which occurred 200 years ago, affect people today. And I don't think racism is a result of slavery, it's a result of stupidity.

If your grandparents were poor, uneducated and a potential target for racism anywhere in the US I can assure you that it would have an impact on your life in some form or another.

OK mine were. Your point is no longer valid.

As were mine; poor immigrants from Italy who arrived in time to deal with both the Great Depression, and the racial stigmas that arose during prohibition.

Mine were German immigrants from the Russian steppes, came over during the Bolshevik revolution. They've done alright for themselves.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: fisher
my grandparents were poor and german and they did rather well from themselves. they were targeted because of hitler but that didn't seem to stop them from making a living for themselves and their family.

Same here! My Great grandparents emmigrated from Germany so he could work on the railroad. He and the rest of my ancestors did what it took to raise a family and get them an education. My parents were the first in all my lineage to get college degrees.

Oh, and the civil war wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights.

 

[zixxer]

fsck it.

 

[yllus]

Ok I have 13 minutes to kill before I go get some lunch.

Originally posted by: Arkitech
Some of the reasons slavery still affects people in America

2. During slavery slaves received minimal to no education, therefore when these people were eventually freed little emphasis was placed on acheiving higher learning if any at all.

Why is anyone responsible for carrying out this task? Who held the hands of the Irish or the Italians when they came to North America to ensure they were educated?

3. Families were often broken apart during slave times and as most people who study history realize that strong families are the basis for strong communities. So when many slaves were freed their very foundation from the beginning was fractured.

Slave owners kept common law married husband-and-wife slaves together fairly often. Also, exactly how long did slavery go on in the United States to so profoundly affect the familial bonds of blacks in America? What about the centuries of family roots before arrival in North America?

It's not like other immigrant races showed up on these shores with their families intact. If you're going to put a source for some historical blame on a weak family structure, then frankly you're going to have to look hard at citing African continental culture. The Irish came from a strong familial system, same as the Italians. This is not a legitimate reason.

4. Perhaps one of the most far reaching effects of slavery is the racism and hatred. I can't even begin to explain how it feels to belong to a race of people who can invoke pure hatred from others based solely on the color of their skin. Often times I've wished to be any other race than black simply to not have to deal with the racism and hatred.

That's just ridiculous. Are you saying you run into people who hate you or discriminate because because your forefather may have been slaves? So people you walk by look at you with hatred thinking in their minds, "He shoulda stayed a slave." BS. Just like my race has reaped much hatred in recent times with their actions, black America needs to live up to the fact that that racism and hatred doesn't exist purely in a vacuum. There's some enforcement of the stereotype going on.

5. Economically black people have suffered because of slavery. Many blacks in the US who have slaves ancestors can trace them back in 3 or 4 generations. (my grandmother's grandmother was a slave) And while this does'nt appear to be much of a factor think about americans who have 3 or 4 generations in this country. Thats 3 or 4 generations of family who've had the opportunity to attend college, build businesses, pass down family fortunes, etc.

Poor whites in the North and black slaves in the South duelled for the right to claim the worst living conditions, just the same as they duelled for the same type of jobs. Moreover, the recent waves of immigrants have had the exact same issue - no generational wealth to rely upon - and have done a better job of succeeding as a whole. The Sri Lankan Tamils that claimed refugee status en masse in the 80s and 90s in Canada came here with absolutely nothing and on the average, they've done quite well.

Black America has had a huge headstart on pretty much every other race when it comes to passed-down wealth. What's been the problem?

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Bill Cosby said it best...Blacks are making their own bed nowadays. When Allen Iverson, Latrell the Choker Sprewell and P Diddy stop being worshiped and people like Bob Johnson, Colin Powell, Condaleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas stop being called Uncle Toms simply because they made it without playing a sport, is when things might start to balance out.

Great quote, Nitemare. I tried searching for it on Google, but couldn't come up with anything. Any idea where/when he said that?

He didn't say exactly that. He's my brother from another mother :Q It's basically what he was saying a few months back just summed up....Nitemare style.

 

[zixxer]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Bill Cosby said it best...Blacks are making their own bed nowadays. When Allen Iverson, Latrell the Choker Sprewell and P Diddy stop being worshiped and people like Bob Johnson, Colin Powell, Condaleeza Rice and Clarence Thomas stop being called Uncle Toms simply because they made it without playing a sport, is when things might start to balance out.

Great quote, Nitemare. I tried searching for it on Google, but couldn't come up with anything. Any idea where/when he said that?

He didn't say exactly that. He's my brother from another mother :Q It's basically what he was saying a few months back just summed up....Nitemare style.

awesome qoute

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: oboeguy
Ugh, too long a thread to read at this hour. Anyway... the connections drawn by the OP are tenuous at best. There's a huge leap of logic in each one.

However, anyone who thinks segregation was abolished, say in schools, by Brown vs. Bd. of Ed. has absolutely no freaking clue. Try visiting a school in the South Bronx.

Anyway, racism is still a huge problem, no matter what people say, but slavery? Come on, you need to give a more connected argument for you to convince anyone.

Please explain the "South Bronx" thing to me. I don't want to go on what I assume you mean.

Sure. The South Bronx (or other "bad" neighborhoods) are full of dangerous, under-performing schools. Compare District 7 (SB) with District 2 (Upper East Side): 7 is like 99% minority (don't quote the number, not sure exactly), whereas 2 is full of (largely well-to-do) white kids. Regardless of the reasons, the difference in the quality of education is like night and day! Segregation is done? Whatever. BTW, I'm using the old District numbers; they recently changed.

So why is there such a low quality of edication? Could it possibly be that most teachers don't want to deal with kids such as those? If you had a choice between teaching in a middle class neighborhood where only about 15% of the kids would be a problem and a lower class school where 65% of the students would be a problem, which would you choose?

 

[MySoS]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
...from those in the south who bear a continental chip on their shoulder because their side "lost," to, of course, your side. It's the fact that some people just won't let the fvck go that pisses me off about the whole issue.

And what a great bunch of people to have on your side, being the righteous anti-slavery bunch that they were...

A Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, 1856: "I care nothing for the 'great person'? I have a higher mission to preach ? deliverance of the white man."

Abraham Lincoln, 1858: "There is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."

Abraham Lincoln, 1858: "There must be the position of superior and inferior, I am as much as many other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Lincoln's final solution for the slavery question was to ship all blacks overseas to an island of their own. Ah, the strange legend of the great Emancipator.

You leave out important information Lincoln later told people he was wrong for say those things, and blacks have every right to live in freedom in the America.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MySoS

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Wuffsunie
...from those in the south who bear a continental chip on their shoulder because their side "lost," to, of course, your side. It's the fact that some people just won't let the fvck go that pisses me off about the whole issue.

And what a great bunch of people to have on your side, being the righteous anti-slavery bunch that they were...

A Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, 1856: "I care nothing for the 'great person'? I have a higher mission to preach ? deliverance of the white man."

Abraham Lincoln, 1858: "There is a physical difference between the white and black races which will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."

Abraham Lincoln, 1858: "There must be the position of superior and inferior, I am as much as many other man in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Lincoln's final solution for the slavery question was to ship all blacks overseas to an island of their own. Ah, the strange legend of the great Emancipator.

You leave out important information Lincoln later told people he was wrong for say those things, and blacks have every right to live in freedom in the America.

Or that he just gave us quotes out of context and without citations.

 

[mrCide]

i just wanted to add that ive bumped into black people who are the most racist of any other people ive ever known

 

This discussion always saddens me.

Arkitech, I totally agree with you. However, you forgot to add the Jim Crow Laws to your list. I think that it had an immense influence on the state of African-Americans today. I think the Blacks would have been able to build back their self egoes, esteem, and family structure had their experiences immediately after the so-called Emancipation Act been normal. However, they had to overcome another obstacle with treatment as second citizens, and no justice system for redresses.

People forget how recent the Jim Crow Laws were. I do think that Blacks could still make the best of the worst. Nevertheless, even when efforts were made to succeed in a segregated society, you had injustice with Black businesses being burned down (e.g., Tulsa Race Riot), lynching, etc. It's hard to recover from a severely injured Self. It's painful seeing people dismiss it like that. Oddly enough, this is the same society where we psychoanalyze defendants and put at least 50% of the population on anti-depressants. I can't imagine how we would handle it if we were in the shoes of the African-Americans, especially in the mid 1800s to the mid 1900s.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: mrCide
i just wanted to add that ive bumped into black people who are the most racist of any other people ive ever known

Racism is most definitely NOT confined to any single race and all races are negatively affected by it. To act as though one somehow bears the brunt of racist acts simply because one is a particular race is ignorance and arrogance.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Remember, 50 years ago blacks had limited voting rights, were forced in to pathetic school systems that were unable to educate them, were basically seperated and segregated from white America. To deny that fact is to deny history and reeks of ignorance. In the general scheme of things, 50 years is a relatively short period of time.

Many immigrant races couldn't even become citizens and have limited voting rights about 50 years ago.

 

[oboeguy]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: oboeguy

Originally posted by: BannedTroll

Originally posted by: oboeguy
Ugh, too long a thread to read at this hour. Anyway... the connections drawn by the OP are tenuous at best. There's a huge leap of logic in each one.

However, anyone who thinks segregation was abolished, say in schools, by Brown vs. Bd. of Ed. has absolutely no freaking clue. Try visiting a school in the South Bronx.

Anyway, racism is still a huge problem, no matter what people say, but slavery? Come on, you need to give a more connected argument for you to convince anyone.

Please explain the "South Bronx" thing to me. I don't want to go on what I assume you mean.

Sure. The South Bronx (or other "bad" neighborhoods) are full of dangerous, under-performing schools. Compare District 7 (SB) with District 2 (Upper East Side): 7 is like 99% minority (don't quote the number, not sure exactly), whereas 2 is full of (largely well-to-do) white kids. Regardless of the reasons, the difference in the quality of education is like night and day! Segregation is done? Whatever. BTW, I'm using the old District numbers; they recently changed.

So why is there such a low quality of edication? Could it possibly be that most teachers don't want to deal with kids such as those? If you had a choice between teaching in a middle class neighborhood where only about 15% of the kids would be a problem and a lower class school where 65% of the students would be a problem, which would you choose?

That's a broad generalization which is not entirely true. By the way, the segregation is also largely true at the teacher level.

 

[Kyteland]

Originally posted by: Arkitech

Originally posted by: yllus
Oh, BULLLLLLLLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIIIT.

From one person 'hated' for skin colour to another, suck it up you whiny beotch. I mean, WTF? How does the Civil War still affect America? We barely have any World War I veterans left alive, let alone people from the 1850s. Segregation was done away with almost a half century ago.

Your clear understanding is a copout for black people, a reason on which to hang their reasons for not succeeding. I'm not saying all black people do this, or you do this yourself, but WTF man. It's a new century, come on down and join the rest of us.

How does the Civil War still affect america? Come on man, read your history. The Civil War was the birth of major changes in this country.


My reasons are not a copout for black people. Many black people who don't succeed today have themselves to blame, however I'm not naive enough to believe that slavery has not had far reaching results down to this day.

Slavery in Egypt has far reaching results for the Jews. What's your point?

Nobody's trying to tell you to forget that it happened, but it's time to move on.

 

[MadPeriot]

Originally posted by: Howard

Originally posted by: djplayx714
ok people stop using asians as an antithesis. we're well aware of the asian slavery that went on and of the internment camps. there are people still very pissed and very vocal about this. we are not the model minority. i hate it when asians are used as scapegoats for racial issues.

I don't know any Orientals that still seem pissed about it.

Umm..FYI, its asians not orientals. Stop calling asians ORIENTAL, we feel like a product or an object....You can use oriental such as oriental rugs, oriental express, etc. By calling asians orientals makes you sound ignorrant.

 

[RaiderJ]

My family consists (mostly) of poorly educated rednecks, enslaved by their own stupidity. I've managed to get myself educated and a decent paying job. I'm white, but have no idea where my previous family generations hailed from, nor do I care.

Success is independent of what your "ancestors" did hundreds of years ago. To say otherwise is encouraging/enabling stupid self-destructive behavior.

Orientals have been more recently persecuted by "whitey" (WWII), they aren't complaining.

Whites have been enslaved too in the course of history, just like every other race/culture/religion/etc/etc.

Reparations wouldn't help anyone. Alaska Natives get all kinds of financial boons from the state/country. It hasn't done anything for them.

 

[erikistired]

is this still going on?

 

[NetGuySC]

Considering the state of affairs of Africa now, it is hard for me to see how the slavery of a hundred thirty nine years ago really impacted the present day circumstance of blacks in America.

By using the OP anaolgy of the impact of slavery on the blacks in America today, the continent of Africa should be a flourishing, well eduacted and quite civilized society. Since there were not any white slave owners to stop the blacks from educating themselves and building a great society of their own.

Apparently, in black society located in America and in Africa .... being poorly educated, having high crime rates etc, out of wedlock births, tolerance of criminal behavior etc is not a product of slavery in America, but more a product of choices being made everyday by black society.

Every problem in this world can not be blamed on the blacks being enslaved.

 

[GiggityGiggity]

ethnocentrism at its finest.

So many cultures have suffered throughout history. How far back do we go to make ammends and ponder the what ifs and where blame should lie. This desire to find a cause, a reason for the anguish of our ancestors, is what perpetuates these ...well, fallacies. Blanket statements of blame that can be discounted and countered time and time again mean nothing. No matter how bad things are, someone else out there has it much much worse. In short, STFU, you're not special.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: NetGuySC
By using the OP anaolgy of the impact of slavery on the blacks in America today, the continent of Africa should be a flourishing, well eduacted and quite civilized society.

European colonialism in Africa (as well as elsewhere) was brutal. They even practiced slavery in some countries in the 20th century.

 

[jimikim]

Originally posted by: Arkitech

Originally posted by: oboeguy
Ugh, too long a thread to read at this hour. Anyway... the connections drawn by the OP are tenuous at best. There's a huge leap of logic in each one.

However, anyone who thinks segregation was abolished, say in schools, by Brown vs. Bd. of Ed. has absolutely no freaking clue. Try visiting a school in the South Bronx.

Anyway, racism is still a huge problem, no matter what people say, but slavery? Come on, you need to give a more connected argument for you to convince anyone.

Maybe I should have fleshed out my original post better. Sometimes its hard for me to put everything down in words.

Slaves were in many cases viewed as less than humans, this view did'nt automatically disappear just because slavery was abolished. There is much evidence of this in the decades after slavery, unfortunately there are many who still hold some of those views.

I've done extensive reading through historical documents, biographical accounts and speaking with older relatives about the state of black people in america. And perhaps because I'm so intimately involved in this issue I have a view and understanding that other people not of my background may not understand. Again its hard for me to put all of my thoughts, experiences and knowledge into words but I feel strongly that slavery has had a direct impact on the current state of black people in this country. This does'nt mean that I believe in excuses or copouts, in fact I'm probably harder on other black people than persons from another race would be.

I think some of the responses in this post are kind of knee jerk statements. There has been many black people in the past who have used slavery as "get out of jail free card" or as a way to further their own financial or personal goals. So I guess some of the backlash here should be expected to a certain extent.

1894 In re Saito: Circuit court in Massachusetts declares that Japanese are ineligible for naturalization because they are "Mongolian," neither white nor black.

My family came to this country 16 years ago from Korea without a penny...now my parents are millionaires. This is the only country in the world where even with discrimination, one can succeed.