daniel1113
Diamond Member
Great quote, Nitemare. I tried searching for it on Google, but couldn't come up with anything. Any idea where/when he said that?
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Slavery still affects black people in america
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Great quote, Nitemare. I tried searching for it on Google, but couldn't come up with anything. Any idea where/when he said that?
FleshLight
Diamond Member
Maybe we should continue this thread at http://tightrope.cc
BannedTroll
Banned
You are an idiot. You are just as bad or worse than those people . Just at the opposite end of the spectrum.
BannedTroll
Banned
her209 here are some other great Lincoln quotes:
"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God, great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knave to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
-From, Fragments: Notes for Speeches
Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)
"I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason why we should at least be separated."
-From, Address on Colonization to a Deputation of
Africans in Washington D.C.
August 1862 (Vol. V)
"But what shall we do with the Negroes after they are free? I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves."
-From, Letter to General Benjamin F. Butler
March 1865 (Vol. VII)
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, (applause from audience) that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I will say in addition to this that there is physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."
-From, 4th Debate with Stephan A. Douglas in Illinois
Sept. 1858 (Vol. III)
"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get an answer out of me tot he question whether I am in favor of Negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. (applause from audience) He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of Negro citizenship. (renewed applause) If the state of Illinois has the power to grant Negroes citizenship, I shall be opposed to it. (cries of "here, here" and "good, good" from audience) That is all I have to say."
-From, Speech at Sringfield, Illinois
June 1857 (Vol. II)
"In the course of his reply, the Senator remarked that he had always considered this a government made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
-From, Speech at Peoria, Illinois
Oct. 1854 (Vol. II)
"And that the effort to colonize persons of African descent with their consent upon this continent or elsewhere, with the previously obtained consent of the government there, will be continued."
-From, Emancipation Proclamation
Jan. 1863 (Vol. VIII)
You can check there authenticity here:
http://www.hti.umich.edu/l/lincoln/
Keep in mind that I am all for civil rights but revisionist history sucks.
"Negro equality! Fudge!! How long, in the government of a God, great enough to make and maintain this Universe, shall there continue knave to vend, and fools to gulp, so low a piece of demagoguism as this?"
-From, Fragments: Notes for Speeches
Sept. 1859 (Vol. III)
"I think your race suffers very greatly, many of them by living among us, while ours suffers from your presence. In a word we suffer on each side. If this is admitted, it affords a reason why we should at least be separated."
-From, Address on Colonization to a Deputation of
Africans in Washington D.C.
August 1862 (Vol. V)
"But what shall we do with the Negroes after they are free? I believe that it would be better to export them all to some fertile country with a good climate, which they could have to themselves."
-From, Letter to General Benjamin F. Butler
March 1865 (Vol. VII)
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, (applause from audience) that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people. I will say in addition to this that there is physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."
-From, 4th Debate with Stephan A. Douglas in Illinois
Sept. 1858 (Vol. III)
"Judge Douglas has said to you that he has not been able to get an answer out of me tot he question whether I am in favor of Negro citizenship. So far as I know, the Judge never asked me the question before. (applause from audience) He shall have no occasion to ever ask it again, for I tell him very frankly that I am not in favor of Negro citizenship. (renewed applause) If the state of Illinois has the power to grant Negroes citizenship, I shall be opposed to it. (cries of "here, here" and "good, good" from audience) That is all I have to say."
-From, Speech at Sringfield, Illinois
June 1857 (Vol. II)
"In the course of his reply, the Senator remarked that he had always considered this a government made for the white people and not for the Negroes. Why, in point of mere fact, I think so, too."
-From, Speech at Peoria, Illinois
Oct. 1854 (Vol. II)
"And that the effort to colonize persons of African descent with their consent upon this continent or elsewhere, with the previously obtained consent of the government there, will be continued."
-From, Emancipation Proclamation
Jan. 1863 (Vol. VIII)
You can check there authenticity here:
http://www.hti.umich.edu/l/lincoln/
Keep in mind that I am all for civil rights but revisionist history sucks.
Zebo
Elite Member
Not to mention whites arn't scared of asians. I never seen so much fear in my life as when blacks were confortational with my friends at clubs and stuff. What a bunch of whiners. Even when i wrestled in HS some fellow wrestlers were afraid. This is very pervasive into adult life. I don't get it but you can bet it works against blacks professionally. Especially balck males.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
might as well post david horowitz's list.. since the ops post pretty much points towards reperations😛
Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks - and Racist Too
By David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2001
One
There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery
Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?
Two
There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits
The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.
Three
Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them
Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?
Four
America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery
The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?
Five
The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury
The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?
Six
The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?
Seven
The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.
The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?
Eight
Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid
Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?
Nine
What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?
Ten
The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom
Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.
For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.
America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.
Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Blacks is a Bad Idea for Blacks - and Racist Too
By David Horowitz
FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2001
One
There Is No Single Group Clearly Responsible For The Crime Of Slavery
Black Africans and Arabs were responsible for enslaving the ancestors of African-Americans. There were 3,000 black slave-owners in the ante-bellum United States. Are reparations to be paid by their descendants too?
Two
There Is No One Group That Benefited Exclusively From Its Fruits
The claim for reparations is premised on the false assumption that only whites have benefited from slavery. If slave labor created wealth for Americans, then obviously it has created wealth for black Americans as well, including the descendants of slaves. The GNP of black America is so large that it makes the African-American community the 10th most prosperous "nation" in the world. American blacks on average enjoy per capita incomes in the range of twenty to fifty times that of blacks living in any of the African nations from which they were kidnapped.
Three
Only A Tiny Minority Of White Americans Ever Owned Slaves, And Others Gave Their Lives To Free Them
Only a tiny minority of Americans ever owned slaves. This is true even for those who lived in the ante-bellum South where only one white in five was a slaveholder. Why should their descendants owe a debt? What about the descendants of the 350,000 Union soldiers who died to free the slaves? They gave their lives. What possible moral principle would ask them to pay (through their descendants) again?
Four
America Today Is A Multi-Ethnic Nation and Most Americans Have No Connection (Direct Or Indirect) To Slavery
The two great waves of American immigration occurred after 1880 and then after 1960. What rationale would require Vietnamese boat people, Russian refuseniks, Iranian refugees, and Armenian victims of the Turkish persecution, Jews, Mexicans Greeks, or Polish, Hungarian, Cambodian and Korean victims of Communism, to pay reparations to American blacks?
Five
The Historical Precedents Used To Justify The Reparations Claim Do Not Apply, And The Claim Itself Is Based On Race Not Injury
The historical precedents generally invoked to justify the reparations claim are payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, Japanese-Americans and African- American victims of racial experiments in Tuskegee, or racial outrages in Rosewood and Oklahoma City. But in each case, the recipients of reparations were the direct victims of the injustice or their immediate families. This would be the only case of reparations to people who were not immediately affected and whose sole qualification to receive reparations would be racial. As has already been pointed out, during the slavery era, many blacks were free men or slave-owners themselves, yet the reparations claimants make no distinction between the roles blacks actually played in the injustice itself. Randall Robinson's book on reparations, The Debt, which is the manifesto of the reparations movement is pointedly sub-titled "What America Owes To Blacks." If this is not racism, what is?
Six
The Reparations Argument Is Based On The Unfounded Claim That All African-American Descendants of Slaves Suffer From The Economic Consequences Of Slavery And Discrimination
No evidence-based attempt has been made to prove that living individuals have been adversely affected by a slave system that was ended over 150 years ago. But there is plenty of evidence the hardships that occurred were hardships that individuals could and did overcome. The black middle-class in America is a prosperous community that is now larger in absolute terms than the black underclass. Does its existence not suggest that economic adversity is the result of failures of individual character rather than the lingering after-effects of racial discrimination and a slave system that ceased to exist well over a century ago? West Indian blacks in America are also descended from slaves but their average incomes are equivalent to the average incomes of whites ( and nearly 25% higher than the average incomes of American born blacks). How is it that slavery adversely affected one large group of descendants but not the other? How can government be expected to decide an issue that is so subjective - and yet so critical - to the case?
Seven
The Reparations Claim Is One More Attempt To Turn African-Americans Into Victims. It Sends A Damaging Message To The African-American Community.
The renewed sense of grievance -- which is what the claim for reparations will inevitably create -- is neither a constructive nor a helpful message for black leaders to be sending to their communities and to others. To focus the social passions of African-Americans on what some Americans may have done to their ancestors fifty or a hundred and fifty years ago is to burden them with a crippling sense of victim-hood. How are the millions of refugees from tyranny and genocide who are now living in America going to receive these claims, moreover, except as demands for special treatment, an extravagant new handout that is only necessary because some blacks can't seem to locate the ladder of opportunity within reach of others -- many less privileged than themselves?
Eight
Reparations To African Americans Have Already Been Paid
Since the passage of the Civil Rights Acts and the advent of the Great Society in 1965, trillions of dollars in transfer payments have been made to African-Americans in the form of welfare benefits and racial preferences (in contracts, job placements and educational admissions) - all under the rationale of redressing historic racial grievances. It is said that reparations are necessary to achieve a healing between African-Americans and other Americans. If trillion dollar restitutions and a wholesale rewriting of American law (in order to accommodate racial preferences) for African-Americans is not enough to achieve a "healing," what will?
Nine
What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?
Slavery existed for thousands of years before the Atlantic slave trade was born, and in all societies. But in the thousand years of its existence, there never was an anti-slavery movement until white Christians - Englishmen and Americans -- created one. If not for the anti-slavery attitudes and military power of white Englishmen and Americans, the slave trade would not have been brought to an end. If not for the sacrifices of white soldiers and a white American president who gave his life to sign the Emancipation Proclamation, blacks in America would still be slaves. If not for the dedication of Americans of all ethnicities and colors to a society based on the principle that all men are created equal, blacks in America would not enjoy the highest standard of living of blacks anywhere in the world, and indeed one of the highest standards of living of any people in the world. They would not enjoy the greatest freedoms and the most thoroughly protected individual rights anywhere. Where is the gratitude of black America and its leaders for those gifts?
Ten
The Reparations Claim Is A Separatist Idea That Sets African-Americans Against The Nation That Gave Them Freedom
Blacks were here before the Mayflower. Who is more American than the descendants of African slaves? For the African-American community to isolate itself even further from America is to embark on a course whose implications are troubling. Yet the African-American community has had a long-running flirtation with separatists, nationalists and the political left, who want African-Americans to be no part of America's social contract. African Americans should reject this temptation.
For all America's faults, African-Americans have an enormous stake in their country and its heritage. It is this heritage that is really under attack by the reparations movement. The reparations claim is one more assault on America, conducted by racial separatists and the political left. It is an attack not only on white Americans, but on all Americans -- especially African-Americans.
America's African-American citizens are the richest and most privileged black people alive -- a bounty that is a direct result of the heritage that is under assault. The American idea needs the support of its African-American citizens. But African-Americans also need the support of the American idea. For it is this idea that led to the principles and institutions that have set African-Americans - and all of us -- free.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
how kind of you to dumb down the man. just read his speech on dred scott here. http://www.founding.com/librar...m?id=321&parent=63 he's more complicated then a few cut up quotes would reveal.
BannedTroll
Banned
I never said he was a "simple" man. His views are not that hard to figure out though and the quotes are not "cut up" or taken out of context. My point was he wasn't the great "civil rights" idol everyone thinks he is. Did he agree with slavery? No. Did he truly look upon the black man as his equal? No. He viewed slavery as a poison (he said it) on the nation but his preffered outcome was to get rid of not only the institution but the blacks themselves.
I think even though it happen long time ago it's effect still remains in the collective consciousness of people living today. It's a lot like the Caste System in India very very little has change for the Untouchables in India even though on the books it's been offically abolished since 1947.
shilala
Lifer
That is utter and complete bullshit.
It's attitudes that keep people from succeeding. Those attitudes are learned from peers and families. Welfare does breed welfare, and it's a shame. Opportunity is afforded to each and every American. It's a shame that people view education as a nuisance rather than the tremendous opportunity it is. Success is a matter of dignity and respect for one's self. Stepping above only requires effort and maybe a bit of luck.
Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
What really kills me is that there is a rather large population of wealthy blacks who remain quiet & hidden because of the BS they have to put up with from poor blacks for being successful.
I know a lot of poor, middle income & a few wealthy blacks.
The poor blacks need to deal with the following issues:
-A cultural bias against learning/succeding academically
-Out of wedlock births
-Father abandonment
-Child support
-Tolerance of drug abuse & criminal behaviors.
The fact that Cosby gets any crap or that his remarks are controversial is a travesty.
Fvck the idiots (I don't mean all blacks by a long stretch, I'm talking about the ones Chris Rock uses the "N" word to describe... )
All of my family were immigrants and came to the US dirt poor & 1/2 of them were indentured servants in the old country (like slaves), I have no tolerance for the excuses & continued crap.
I know a lot of poor, middle income & a few wealthy blacks.
The poor blacks need to deal with the following issues:
-A cultural bias against learning/succeding academically
-Out of wedlock births
-Father abandonment
-Child support
-Tolerance of drug abuse & criminal behaviors.
The fact that Cosby gets any crap or that his remarks are controversial is a travesty.
Fvck the idiots (I don't mean all blacks by a long stretch, I'm talking about the ones Chris Rock uses the "N" word to describe... )
All of my family were immigrants and came to the US dirt poor & 1/2 of them were indentured servants in the old country (like slaves), I have no tolerance for the excuses & continued crap.
Settle down people! I don't understand why people get SO RILED up everytime racism is brought up, perhaps the OP assumptions are correct, judging the by the inability of anyone to have an open discussion.
IMO, the institution of slavery did not go away untill the Jim Crow laws were abolished in the South. Remember, 50 years ago blacks had limited voting rights, were forced in to pathetic school systems that were unable to educate them, were basically seperated and segregated from white America. To deny that fact is to deny history and reeks of ignorance. In the general scheme of things, 50 years is a relatively short period of time. We are talking about generations of systemic racism towards blacks, and the sociological changes that need to take place will take a while. Yes, in the end individuals can make their lives better, but in reality untill their self image improves, the masses will continue to struggle. Its not because blacks are inferior or don't want to improve. Heck, in my travels through Europe you really couldn't tell the difference between blacks and whites, they lived in the same areas, went to the same places and seemed to accept each other happily.
IMO, the institution of slavery did not go away untill the Jim Crow laws were abolished in the South. Remember, 50 years ago blacks had limited voting rights, were forced in to pathetic school systems that were unable to educate them, were basically seperated and segregated from white America. To deny that fact is to deny history and reeks of ignorance. In the general scheme of things, 50 years is a relatively short period of time. We are talking about generations of systemic racism towards blacks, and the sociological changes that need to take place will take a while. Yes, in the end individuals can make their lives better, but in reality untill their self image improves, the masses will continue to struggle. Its not because blacks are inferior or don't want to improve. Heck, in my travels through Europe you really couldn't tell the difference between blacks and whites, they lived in the same areas, went to the same places and seemed to accept each other happily.
I actually agree that black people are still somehow disadvantaged compared to other races (maybe not as severe as the OP's opinion)
a simple example: its very hard to find black people in the upper echelon of management in any companies.. there are some, but its rare. The question is why? do they lack education? maybe, but I know of lots of black people that do very well in school.
IMO the general's public reaction toward black people is somehow "different" Chinese (asian) people still get this different treatment, but they are too many asians out there so that asians are now among the common people.
Face it, black people are still stereotyped to be crude, dumb, criminals, etc.. eventhough many aren't... I dont really know why this stereotype still exists, but its still there (eventhough its diminishing)
a simple example: its very hard to find black people in the upper echelon of management in any companies.. there are some, but its rare. The question is why? do they lack education? maybe, but I know of lots of black people that do very well in school.
IMO the general's public reaction toward black people is somehow "different" Chinese (asian) people still get this different treatment, but they are too many asians out there so that asians are now among the common people.
Face it, black people are still stereotyped to be crude, dumb, criminals, etc.. eventhough many aren't... I dont really know why this stereotype still exists, but its still there (eventhough its diminishing)
Triumph
Lifer
How is it possible to get a 0.07 user rating, when the scale begins at 1? 😕
SP33Demon
Lifer
Probably the only statement I agree with on is that your family may have had less time to accumulate and pass down wealth. But keep in mind that people like Oprah, LL Cool J, or Will Smith didn't come from wealthy backgrounds. Also, any generation out of a wealthy family could blow it all, just look at the lottery winner in WV! He didn't even make it one generation to pass down to his kids! So while it is true that your family had less time, your family also had MORE time than many Irish/Italian immigrants, or 2nd generation Asian Americans such as myself. I can tell you that I'm doing pretty dam fine b/c of my own accord!
Also, there is a reason that there are more blacks in prison than college, and it's not because of slavery. Black culture really needs to take a look at itself, and the values/messages that are being conveyed (like many rap songs that the black community embraces: BLING BLING, if I don't make it to the NBA I'll resort to a life of crime).
Also, there is a reason that there are more blacks in prison than college, and it's not because of slavery. Black culture really needs to take a look at itself, and the values/messages that are being conveyed (like many rap songs that the black community embraces: BLING BLING, if I don't make it to the NBA I'll resort to a life of crime).
rudder
Lifer
1. The Civil War
Ended a long time ago and affected the White population just as much as the black population.
2. During slavery slaves received minimal to no education, therefore when these people were eventually freed little emphasis was placed on acheiving higher learning if any at all.
About the same time of slavery in the U.S., Japan was still in the 12th century so to speak. Not much emphasis on any thing other than peasantry. Now look at some of the electronics they put out. Slavery which ended in this country over 140 years ago should not be a reason to lack determination
3. Families were often broken apart during slave times and as most people who study history realize that strong families are the basis for strong communities. So when many slaves were freed their very foundation from the beginning was fractured.
Jeiwsh families were broken apart during World War 2. Civilian populations across Europe and Asia were decimated. A hardship of unimaginable proportions, but they rebuilt.
4. Perhaps one of the most far reaching effects of slavery is the racism and hatred. I can't even begin to explain how it feels to belong to a race of people who can invoke pure hatred from others based solely on the color of their skin. Often times I've wished to be any other race than black simply to not have to deal with the racism and hatred.
Still plentyof Racism out there that is for sure. This is the one point you can safely say is related to the civil war. But don't feel like blacks alone are subjects of discrimination. Just look at the ethnic struggles of new immigrants during the early 20th century. Plenty of white on white discrimination.
5. Economically black people have suffered because of slavery. Many blacks in the US who have slaves ancestors can trace them back in 3 or 4 generations. (my grandmother's grandmother was a slave) And while this does'nt appear to be much of a factor think about americans who have 3 or 4 generations in this country. Thats 3 or 4 generations of family who've had the opportunity to attend college, build businesses, pass down family fortunes, etc.
Drive through Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, plenty of poor white folk who can trace their ancestory back 3-4 generations at least. This is more a result of young children being expected to drop out of school at an early age to help the parents on the farm.
Ended a long time ago and affected the White population just as much as the black population.
2. During slavery slaves received minimal to no education, therefore when these people were eventually freed little emphasis was placed on acheiving higher learning if any at all.
About the same time of slavery in the U.S., Japan was still in the 12th century so to speak. Not much emphasis on any thing other than peasantry. Now look at some of the electronics they put out. Slavery which ended in this country over 140 years ago should not be a reason to lack determination
3. Families were often broken apart during slave times and as most people who study history realize that strong families are the basis for strong communities. So when many slaves were freed their very foundation from the beginning was fractured.
Jeiwsh families were broken apart during World War 2. Civilian populations across Europe and Asia were decimated. A hardship of unimaginable proportions, but they rebuilt.
4. Perhaps one of the most far reaching effects of slavery is the racism and hatred. I can't even begin to explain how it feels to belong to a race of people who can invoke pure hatred from others based solely on the color of their skin. Often times I've wished to be any other race than black simply to not have to deal with the racism and hatred.
Still plentyof Racism out there that is for sure. This is the one point you can safely say is related to the civil war. But don't feel like blacks alone are subjects of discrimination. Just look at the ethnic struggles of new immigrants during the early 20th century. Plenty of white on white discrimination.
5. Economically black people have suffered because of slavery. Many blacks in the US who have slaves ancestors can trace them back in 3 or 4 generations. (my grandmother's grandmother was a slave) And while this does'nt appear to be much of a factor think about americans who have 3 or 4 generations in this country. Thats 3 or 4 generations of family who've had the opportunity to attend college, build businesses, pass down family fortunes, etc.
Drive through Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, plenty of poor white folk who can trace their ancestory back 3-4 generations at least. This is more a result of young children being expected to drop out of school at an early age to help the parents on the farm.
Once again I will state that my original post is NOT reasons why a determined black person can't succeed. However there are social ramifications that do have an effect on many black people even down until this day. These ramfications should not be an excuse for any person to be content with little to now effort at improving themselves, but rather should serve as fuel for achieving now what their ancestors could never hope to.
For the people who responded that Oprah is highly successful
I personally feel that Oprah, Bill Cosby and other people who have had similar success are amazing examples of what a determined person can achieve. Being black in america is not automatically a crutch that hinders an individual, I even consider myself to be a successful personal although obviously not on the scale of Oprah. However that does'nt mean that slavery does'nt affect me or Oprah, remember Oprah's movies? At least 2 of them that I recall focused on time periods not long after slavery, it did'nt mean that Oprah was using it as an excuse but rather an aknowledgement of the past and perhaps its her way of expressing her feelings in regards to the situation.
There are many black people who do feel that america owes them something because of slavery
I am not one of those people, neither were my parents nor any of my friends. But there are people who use slavery as a handicap not to put forth enough effort. I can't defend any individual who thinks that way because ultimately (as evidence shows) it results in a negative impact on that person as well as the community if enough people embrace that attitude.
Finally for the people who were offended by this thread and who object to my posting it
Please try to understand that this is NOT and excuse or a copout, at least thats not my intentions for posting it. I just wanted people to realize that the matter of slavery does effect some black to a certain degree. (not always in a negative manner)
For the people who responded that Oprah is highly successful
I personally feel that Oprah, Bill Cosby and other people who have had similar success are amazing examples of what a determined person can achieve. Being black in america is not automatically a crutch that hinders an individual, I even consider myself to be a successful personal although obviously not on the scale of Oprah. However that does'nt mean that slavery does'nt affect me or Oprah, remember Oprah's movies? At least 2 of them that I recall focused on time periods not long after slavery, it did'nt mean that Oprah was using it as an excuse but rather an aknowledgement of the past and perhaps its her way of expressing her feelings in regards to the situation.
There are many black people who do feel that america owes them something because of slavery
I am not one of those people, neither were my parents nor any of my friends. But there are people who use slavery as a handicap not to put forth enough effort. I can't defend any individual who thinks that way because ultimately (as evidence shows) it results in a negative impact on that person as well as the community if enough people embrace that attitude.
Finally for the people who were offended by this thread and who object to my posting it
Please try to understand that this is NOT and excuse or a copout, at least thats not my intentions for posting it. I just wanted people to realize that the matter of slavery does effect some black to a certain degree. (not always in a negative manner)
My great grandfather came over from Wales with nothing but about $20 to his name (of course, that was a couple months rent back in the day) which he worked 5 years to save up while working at a factory.
But, my father's father went to college and studied engineering [@ great personal sacrafice of my great grand father] and later got a job with NASA...'family line' pulled from poverty to a nice upper middle class existence.
As has been said already, hard work pays off and can change a family's future...so folks need to stop whining and get to work.
But, my father's father went to college and studied engineering [@ great personal sacrafice of my great grand father] and later got a job with NASA...'family line' pulled from poverty to a nice upper middle class existence.
As has been said already, hard work pays off and can change a family's future...so folks need to stop whining and get to work.
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