Skylake/Broadwell Roadmap Update @Vr-zone

[elemein]

No FIVR = more MHZ.

I never really understood how the FIVR effected the performance characteristics of the CPU. Got any source I could learn more from?

 

[Redentor]

http://wccftech.com/asus-oc-socket-examined-lga-2011/

 

[elemein]

http://wccftech.com/asus-oc-socket-examined-lga-2011/

Thanks though the link doesnt exactly explain why the subtraction of an FIVR makes OCing better, just that it does.

Though I'll trust it

 

[witeken]

I never really understood how the FIVR effected the performance characteristics of the CPU. Got any source I could learn more from?

Funnily enough, Intel claims it offers improved power supply for better boost performance:

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~rajwar/papers/ieee_micro_haswell.pdf

As far as I know, FIVR simply adds extra heat to the die, which you of course want to avoid.

 

[III-V]

Seam to me that Broadwell is the worst Intel release of the last 5-6 years.

Not gonna argue with that. Nothing else has been so delayed.

 

[Fjodor2001]

The question is what Skylake will bring over Broadwell?

I've heard it's mostly focused on adding wireless technologies, such as wireless charging, wireless display, etc. They want to "cut the cables".

 

[elemein]

Funnily enough, Intel claims it offers improved power supply for better boost performance:

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~rajwar/papers/ieee_micro_haswell.pdf

As far as I know, FIVR simply adds extra heat to the die, which you of course want to avoid.

That also doesnt explain why, but it does help a bit more in understanding why they made the move in the first place :/

Edit: Oh nvm didnt see your edit. Makes sense

 

[cbn]

http://wccftech.com/asus-oc-socket-examined-lga-2011/

Interesting read. An 'overclocking' socket that has more pins than stock an bypasses FIVR.

Thanks for the link :thumbsup: (Looking forward to seeing that one tested)

 

[jdubs03]

The question is what Skylake will bring over Broadwell?

I've heard it's mostly focused on adding wireless technologies, such as wireless charging, wireless display, etc. They want to "cut the cables".

There hasn't been much info on that, maybe IDF in April will give us a better idea of what the new uarch improves upon. Hopefully its more than the usual 1.1x gain.

But yeah the initial focus on Skylake from Krzanich has been wireless.

 

[erunion]

So now we have an LGA Skylake "K" @ 95 TDP after all. And the Broadwell unlocked LGA is only rated at 65 W TDP. Then what's the point with the Broadwell one, when they are released almost at the same time?

now that we've wasted a whole page on this: Those are two different products, did you notice that both we be sold concurrently?

The Broadwell 65W is a replacement for the BGA GT3 desktop parts. The i7-4770R is already 65w.

The 95w skylake K will replace the 4690k/ 4790k.

 

[Fjodor2001]

now that we've wasted a whole page on this: Those are two different products, did you notice that both we be sold concurrently?

The Broadwell 65W is a replacement for the BGA GT3 desktop parts. The i7-4770R is already 65w.

The 95w skylake K will replace the 4690k/ 4790k.

No, the Broadwell 65 W is LGA and unlocked. Check the roadmap again.

 

[Redentor]

Broadwell-K being 65W only and the new arrival of Skylake-K could be because of frequency scaling issues on Broadwell-K, see here: http://www.bitsandchips.it/9-hardware/5162-rumor-broadwell-k-consumi-eccessivi-ad-altre-frequenze

I found on the same site an old news: Skylake will not have soldered IHS, even though the Haifa team wants it.

https://translate.google.com/transl...lake-saldato-la-dirigenza-intel-no&edit-text=

 

[Fjodor2001]

I found on the same site an old news: Skylake will not have soldered IHS, even though the Haifa team wants it.

https://translate.google.com/transl...lake-saldato-la-dirigenza-intel-no&edit-text=

Because the Intel management wants to save a few cents per unit according to the article. Can that be true?

 

[erunion]

No, the Broadwell 65 W is LGA and unlocked. Check the roadmap again.

So? Broadwell GT3 will be unlocked and socketed, its still the replacement for the 4770R, and not the 4790k.
Its been known for a long time that there would be no broadwell successor to the 4790k, devils canyon will be replaced by skylake.

 

[III-V]

The question is what Skylake will bring over Broadwell?

I've heard it's mostly focused on adding wireless technologies, such as wireless charging, wireless display, etc. They want to "cut the cables".

That's all they've talked about. No matter how many times people ask, we're not going to get any new information, at least until a tech show or IDF comes around. Not directed at you specifically... It's just a question that is asked a lot, and there just isn't an answer.

 

[DrMrLordX]

The question is what Skylake will bring over Broadwell?

Uh, Gen9 graphics, for what it's worth. Broadwell is Gen8.

 

[TechFan1]

If the roadmap is accurate, then it seems like maybe they finally got their 14nm yield problems mostly fixed.

 

[ehume]

Also, Skylake-U already at the end of 2015Q2. Broadwell-U will have less than a 6 months life span? I wonder how many OEMs will create models based on Broadwell-U, which soon will be ending up on the discount shelves when Skylake-U is released just a few months later.

I get the impression that while Broadwell was delayed, Skylake will not be. That would explain the overlap.

Also, I think I read somewhere that one team designed Haswell and Skylake, while the other designed Broadwell. This might have some bearing on whether FIVR is present or not.

 

[.vodka]

So, Broadwell (+5% over Haswell) at 65w is supposed to be the highest performing model and Skylake, a 95w tock (which I assume will bring at least 10% over Broadwell) on the same node, is not?

Something doesn't compute here... or the graph is just telling that both will coexist for that time frame. Broadwell for whoever already has a Z97 board, Skylake for who is upgrading platforms.

 

[Idontcare]

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/141850/i...ch-skylake-s-for-desktop-diy-market-01302015/

Something tells me we won't be seeing 10nm anytime soon :hmm:

 

[jdubs03]

Something tells me we won't be seeing 10nm anytime soon :hmm:

my guess is 10nm-cannonlake for holiday season 2016. that seems to be reasonable if skylake is q3-2015.

 

[erunion]

So, Broadwell (+5% over Haswell) at 65w is supposed to be the highest performing model and Skylake, a 95w tock (which I assume will bring at least 10% over Broadwell) on the same node, is not?

Something doesn't compute here... or the graph is just telling that both will coexist for that time frame. Broadwell for whoever already has a Z97 board, Skylake for who is upgrading platforms.

Broadwell-S on the slide is quadcore only. That's because it is referring to the 4c/GT3 die.

Both cores will coexist, but they won't overlap.
The desktop platform will move to Skylake, but with some Broadwell Iris Pro products.

Broadwell-S will replace these chips . The 4770R is more expensive than the 4790K, which is probably why broadwell is listed above skylake.

 

[RussianSensation]

For me the desktop BW-K always sounded like an unexciting product. Ever since I have been buying Intel CPUs, I have never seen an impressive Tick. The Ticks matter more for laptops and 6-8 cores where the shrink helps with lower power usage/battery life. Otherwise, I find upgrading on the Tock most impressive:

1) Larger gains in IPC
2) Usually more dramatic changes to motherboard chipsets and features.

At this point I think 2-year-old Haswell and especially 4-year-old Sandy owners could care less about a Broadwell-K on 1150 since Skylake brings way higher IPC and more advanced features. For new PC builders, BW-K also makes no sense since they would be buying obsolete DDR3. At least with DDR4, you could reuse it in 2-3 years with another Intel Tock.

It just sucks that Intel continues to launch the latest architecture on the mainstream socket first, putting their flagship X99 socket 1-1.5 years behind. If BW-E is scheduled for Q1 2016, I presume we won't even see Skylake-E until Q4 2016 or later. That is what I hate the most as I think the premium platform should always get the latest architecture like the old i7 920. Right now it seems Intel is either not confident enough to go 6-8 cores on the latest architecture until they see yields on Skylake or its a permanent strategy to treat their workstation/premium customers as 2nd class citizens.

I bet if a 6-core Skylake-E launched Q3-4 2015, a lot more PC enthusiasts would have considered ditching the mainstream platform.

 

[Fjodor2001]

So? Broadwell GT3 will be unlocked and socketed, its still the replacement for the 4770R, and not the 4790k.
Its been known for a long time that there would be no broadwell successor to the 4790k, devils canyon will be replaced by skylake.

The 4770R and the 65 W Broadwell shown on the latest roadmap are totally different. BGA vs LGA, locked vs unlocked. So I don't see how this 65 W Broadwell can be a replacement for the 4770R.

Also, actually a Broadwell-K is what has been expected for desktop LGA. What's strange is that it now appears to be 65 W TDP, and released at the same time as the Skylake 95 W LGA SKU. The whole point of Broadwell-K would be that it is unlocked and thus if overclocked potentially faster than the locked Skylake, otherwise it serves no purpose. But at 65 W TDP it is questionable if that can be achieved.

Earlier roadmap:

 

[III-V]

For me the desktop BW-K always sounded like an unexciting product. Ever since I have been buying Intel CPUs, I have never seen an impressive Tick. The Ticks matter more for laptops and 6-8 cores where the shrink helps with lower power usage/battery life. Otherwise, I find upgrading on the Tock most impressive:

1) Larger gains in IPC
2) Usually more dramatic changes to motherboard chipsets and features.

At this point I think 2-year-old Haswell and especially 4-year-old Sandy owners could care less about a Broadwell-K on 1150 since Skylake brings way higher IPC and more advanced features. For new PC builders, BW-K also makes no sense since they would be buying obsolete DDR3. At least with DDR4, you could reuse it in 2-3 years with another Intel Tock.

It just sucks that Intel continues to launch the latest architecture on the mainstream socket first, putting their flagship X99 socket 1-1.5 years behind. If BW-E is scheduled for Q1 2016, I presume we won't even see Skylake-E until Q4 2016 or later. That is what I hate the most as I think the premium platform should always get the latest architecture like the old i7 920. Right now it seems Intel is either not confident enough to go 6-8 cores on the latest architecture until they see yields on Skylake or its a permanent strategy to treat their workstation/premium customers as 2nd class citizens.

I bet if a 6-core Skylake-E launched Q3-4 2015, a lot more PC enthusiasts would have considered ditching the mainstream platform.

If Dennard scaling were still in effect, "ticks" would be way more interesting than tocks.

Also, I strongly disagree with you on which platform to launch first. It's considered "mainstream" for a reason -- it's more accessible to more people. Thus, more people would be left in the dark if Intel did it they way you suggest.