SJW trouble at Linux

[brycejones]

The 'underlying motives' are that - in any collaborative project - the ability to work with the project team is just as much a component of merit as is the work skill itself.

So you just might be the greatest developer in the history of developing, but if you can't work nicely with others, then all that doesn't matter.

That is just evil. /s

 

[Rebel_L]

The Linux kernel dev mailing lists are legendary. You can probably dig up other instances of poor behavior in other projects, but there aren't THAT many that reach the same level.

I cant tell if you trying to say it is a hostile environment or not

I'm sorry, but that is kind of sexist/racist. Most white men that I know won't generate or tolerate that degree of invective, nor are many people of any stripe that passionate about code that they're willing to get into flame wars over it.

While I cant speak for something like the linux environment sexism is still a huge thing in NA, the corporate world especially. Aggressive women are commonly seen as bitchy hard asses while aggressive men are just being assertive. Women are more often that not still taught be "sugar and spice and everything nice". Minority discrimination also hasnt magically disappeared. Yes we are slowly moving in a direction thats getting better, but we still have a ways to go to get there. If you think the situation is so bad that even most white males would find the behavior there unacceptable than I really dont know why you think it shouldnt be changed. If the field is dominated by white males though it should tell you they are more likely to find that behavior acceptable which still demonstrates where the bias is.

FOSS coders are usually dedicating free time to these projects, or are being paid a pittance from a donor platform. I find that most of them are left-leaning anarcho-communist types, with few exceptions. It's fascinating to watch a bunch of people who, in the political arena, would be anti-patriarchy and pro-leftist be attacked for apparent toxic masculinity. Few people understand (or care) about how passionate they are about their work.

So FOSS coders are passionate assholes, not just regular assholes, got it.

That atmosphere isn't pleasant or normal to a lot of people. Can you explain how it functions in such a manner? Nobody seems to want to address that question.

I honestly dont know what you want to know here. You seem to say its a non normal and hostile atmosphere and then want to know how it functions... with lots of insults and yelling I assume?

Is that the only intention? And why exactly does anyone feel like they want more people participating? At the end of the day, nobody wants to explain that either.

I thought the goal of their meritocracy was to get the best code. The more people you have making submissions the more likely you are to get the best code. I can tell you if I was the only person making code submissions it would be a terrible kernel that wouldnt work at all.

I mean hell, you can outright copy ALL the code the kernel dev community puts out and do your own work on it without ever having to interact with "those people". Folks do it all the time to create their own specialized kernels. Nobody really pays attention to that, or really seems to care.

This sounds like a workaround to having to deal with the linux people to end up with better code. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing that might happen if the problem that we are talking about is a real issue.

We have no evidence to support or reject that hypothesis. If someone were to do a major fork of the kernel project, introduce the CoC to that project's community from the get-go, and test the hypothesis, we could learn more. Instead people just want to stick the CoC on the existing toxic community and cause uproar. Everyone is blatantly ignoring the path of least resistance.

Your right, people are ignoring the path of least resistance. Change is hard, but the whole point is to try and make changes for the better.

Many in the developer community who see no need for the CoC or who see it as an authoritarian attack on the community itself (remember, anarcho-communists don't really like rules) have tended towards the conspiratorial, assuming that "SJWs" are attacking them. I'm surprised more people haven't come to the conclusion that it's an attempt by corporate donors to exert more control over development, especially give responses such as those from @Josephus312 .

If an adult of sound mind see's being told to be civil to other humans as some sort of authoritarian attack then I dont know what to say. Would they have the same reaction if we tell them they cant murder people just because they feel like it or does that sound just as crazy to them?