Six Good Reasons to Vote Republican

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
All of these are ridiculous propaganda.

1. I want to live in an America where economic success is celebrated – not penalized.

This is, of course, clear propaganda. It's like saying that we should pay teachers a million dollars a year because that's celebrating teachers, not penalizing them.

This is how the disastrous ugliness of plutocracy is hidden to people who fall for the propaganda - any limits on concentration of wealth are not 'celebrating success'.

Of course, Democrats are actually celebrating success - but not defining it as anything that makes money (sell bad medicine and disappear with the profits! Compete in industry by spending below what's needed for worker safety! Design a Wall Street scam!) And Democrats want more people to have opportunity - not just a few to own everything.

But let's just take one example of the argument's specifics:


...and the usurpation of the student loan business by the federal government...

Now, the old system was a taxpayer giveaway to banks - exactly the sort of thing Republicans are hired by the big businesses to do.

So they try to demonize the Democrats' policy - which is to stop paying a fortune in administrative costs to banks to issue loans *that are guaranteed by the federal government*, and to instead save a large amount of money on those bank payments and more efficiently do it themselves. What's wrong with that? Nothing, to citizens.

A lot, to banks, hence it making the Republicans' talking points propaganda.

2. I want ObamaCare repealed.

So, you want to take 30 million people back off insurance, let insurers deny coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, and many other abuses.

The American people do not. (So much for you later point you 'listen to the American people'). You listen to big corporate industries, like the insurers, not the people.

Suffice it to say that their argument argues against the *Republican* healthcare plan created to counter the Clintons the last time Republicans fought Democrats siding with the insurance industry - and that the reason for the bad compromises was the Republicans blocking a better plan, like the House passed for the public option - not to mention single-payer. It also has false information about the fiscal impact, painting hundreds of billions lower government spending as 'costing $2.5 trillion'.

3. I want the federal government to reverse its metastatic growth.

You had 8 years to do that. You didn't. Now, the Democrats are cleaning up your mess (not enough, progressives are a minority, but you're like a man who was convicted for serial wife-beating showing up with roses at the house of your ex-wife and her new husband to criticize him for not buying her nice enough jewelry, she should take you back.)

No, what you want to do is to continue the starve the beast plan, where you first bankrupt the country, and then make the required cuts from things that benefit the public - leaving in place the ones that enrich the rich, your real bosses. It's another stage of your plan for turning the nation into a plutocracy.

Your plans, your choice of cuts, will weaken the nation and reduce the US's ability to be a world leader for more egalitarian policies - as wealth around the world would like.

You are an enemy of 'people power', and the agents of economic tyranny, ever shifting more wealth to the top and leaving the rest with less.

Democrats want to return to fiscal responsibility and understand first, spending is key to getting out of the mess you made, then we can cut.

4. I want a House and Senate that respects the popular will.

Propaganda. You don't want any such thing, you want the opposite - to fight the progressives who actually represent the people's interests, for the rich.

It's 'the big lie' - you are the enemy of the American public, but if you say you are for their interests, some will fall for the lie.

Your policies constantly take from the people to give to the rich, using lies and propaganda to sell the policies that have resulted in a historic period of the people getting a small share of economic growth than any time in American history - and yet you want more for the rich.

Your propaganda technique is to tell a lie implying something not true about the Democrats. Imagine a reason to vote for Democrats list that had things like "we respect the constitution" or "we're against going to war with China and Europe" or "We are against the military policing the streets of America". These imply Republicans are FOR the other side on those things, just as these points lie about Democrats.

Starting with heated town halls in the summer of 2009

You mean the ones where you put out messages through your propaganda machine such as the Fox News channel to get some people to go and disrupt meetings - more relevant are the polls now showing not only a large majority of the American people, but even a majority of REPUBLICANS, oppose repealing the Democrats' healthcare bill as a whole - which is exactly what YOU voted to do as your first policy vote in power.

Ignoring the people and their interest to support your bosses, the insurance industry.

Instead, the President and congressional Democrats resorted to procedural tricks and paid off reluctant members – in knowing and outright defiance of Americans’ clearly expressed wishes. That kind of insolence from those who have a sacred responsibility to represent us cannot be rewarded with electoral success.

So, Republicans cannot be rewarded with electoral success.

Let's remind people of your huge giveaway policy of 'drug benefits' under Bush that gave hundreds of billions to your number one donor industry, big pharma, by not letting the government negotiate drug prices, as other agencies like the VA do - and how you even had some more fiscally responsible Republicans voting against it, so you just ignore the vote you lost when the time expired, and did something unprecedented, just extending the vote all night for hours as your leadership walked the floor offering threats and bribes to switch votes until you had just enough votes to pass it.

You don't want to elect such people, you say. Lies.

5. I want to be able to disagree with Democrats without being slandered.

Oh, did the Marxist who likes to pal around with terrorists criticize your policies?

Another propaganda technique, playing the victim - trying to get people not to listen to the facts by misrepresenting the Democrats as 'slandering' Republicans.

As Harry Truman said, people told him to give Republicans hell - but he just told the truth about them, and the Republicans thought that was giving them hell.

They then go on to say Obama has no concern about Iran having nuclear weapons, funny for a party saying they don't want slander of opponents - and funny for a party that refused for over a year to ratify the renewal of the START treaty to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons for no reason other than to deny Democrats a 'victory', ignoring every former REPUBLICAN secretary of state who said it was a critical need, until finally doing so after the elections.

They cite their non-issue where they created a phony problem and stirred up hate over the creation of a needed Muslim community center blocks from ground zero, for the American Muslims who were the real targets of 9/11 as Obama tried to provoke the US to invade Muslims and create division - the agenda Republicans are serving here - calling it wrongly 'a mosque at ground zero' and implying American Muslims or Islam in general are to blame.

And then having the gall to say that's an argument AGAINST slandering your opponents.

6. I want to be free.

No, you don't. You want the American people and the people of the world to have less freedom, politically and economically.

You are disgusting, corrupt creatures who dirty the word freedom by trying to distort it into serving your anti-freedom agenda.

The sort of 'freedom' you support is the freedom for the oligarchy to be 'free to pollute', 'free to monopolize', and other 'freedoms' for them that take away from Americans.

You try to get the people to fall for your propaganda by distorting 'freedom' as if their interests are with the corporate agenda, not opposed to the wrongs and excesses.

Remember your championing the 'freedom to compete internationally in finance' by deregulating the financial industry - something progressives opposed, while even many Democrats 'gave in to Republican pressure' and supported - how did that freedom go for the country? It went great for the billionares who profited from the schemes and abuses, the 'too big to fail' companies, your bosses, not so much the American people.

When the Democrats in turn successfully protected the US auto industry and employment with their actions to help GM deal with the financial crisis you created, you screamed how terribly they did it, protecting workers too much and planning a government takeover of the auto industry. Well, that Democratic policy worked out a hell of a lot better than your plan to 'let global competition end the US auto industry' or your protection of Wall Street that was far more costly.

You have offered six pieces of propaganda that are reasons NOT to vote Republican.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Did you just lecture someone on offering pieces of propaganda??!?!?

IE must be messed up, I know I didn't just read that.....

Chuck
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Did you just lecture someone on offering pieces of propaganda??!?!?

IE must be messed up, I know I didn't just read that.....

Chuck
Pity. You should read it. Craig pretty accurately nailed the Republican Party on some of its most pervasive and blatantly dishonest propaganda. That's not to suggest conservative ideals are without virtue, nor that the Democratic Party is above well-reasoned criticism. You just won't find either in the OP.

Kudos Craig. I had much the same reaction when I read the OP, but I just don't have the enthusiasm anymore for systematically deconstructing such bullshit. Half the posters here already know it's BS and the other half are too brainwashed to ever give your words the critical consideration they deserve.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Awwww. Come on. You resurrected a 3 months dead thread. I politically disagree with werepossum on a lot. But that was a funny comment.
Thank you.

Anyone resurrecting a thread three months dead needs a better idea than "Yeah, Republicans/Democrats suck!"
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
I could care less if Craig maybe nailed anything. Craig lecturing others on spreading propaganda is a textbook example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Chuck

P.S. I don't have time, nor do I care to, go through Craig's post to debunk/add relevent context left out/whatever. Craig's wall o texts are exactly like another posts here Macro's: Devoid of context from both sides, always harping on one side, magically the other side is perfection, never mentioned...which makes it just partisan cr@p posting. The Mooner's stuff is more fun to read...
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I could care less if Craig maybe nailed anything. Craig lecturing others on spreading propaganda is a textbook example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Chuck

P.S. I don't have time, nor do I care to, go through Craig's post to debunk/add relevent context left out/whatever. Craig's wall o texts are exactly like another posts here Macro's: Devoid of context from both sides, always harping on one side, magically the other side is perfection, never mentioned...which makes it just partisan cr@p posting. The Mooner's stuff is more fun to read...
LOL The black hole calling the kettle black. Although he does occasionally make some smart points which, though I may not agree, are at least well crafted and logical. Agreed on Moonie's stuff, he's never dull and sometimes esoterically enlightening. Or something.
 
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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
I could care less if Craig maybe nailed anything. Craig lecturing others on spreading propaganda is a textbook example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Chuck
No, not really. While I don't agree with everything Craig says, the quality and thought in his posts is orders of magnitude better than 90% of the crap we see from the GOP sock puppets here. Mind you, this is far more a reflection of the quality and capabilities of those posters than of the conservative ideology. P&N desperately needs people who can offer intelligent, well-informed support for conservative ideals and policies, and who can offer equally intelligent criticism of the left. Unfortunately, we rarely see it. Instead we mostly get the same small group of extremists and mental midgets who can't deliver anything beyond bumper sticker propaganda. The few intelligent right-wing posters are all but drowned out by them.


P.S. I don't have time, nor do I care to, go through Craig's post to debunk/add relevent context left out/whatever.
Your loss. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to attack something if you can't even bother to read it.


Craig's wall o texts are exactly like another posts here Macro's: Devoid of context from both sides, always harping on one side, magically the other side is perfection, never mentioned...which makes it just partisan cr@p posting. The Mooner's stuff is more fun to read...
One-sided? Generally yes. He definitely posts as an advocate for the left. Lacking content? No.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
No, not really. While I don't agree with everything Craig says, the quality and thought in his posts is orders of magnitude better than 90% of the crap we see from the GOP sock puppets here. Mind you, this is far more a reflection of the quality and capabilities of those posters than of the conservative ideology. P&N desperately needs people who can offer intelligent, well-informed support for conservative ideals and policies, and who can offer equally intelligent criticism of the left. Unfortunately, we rarely see it. Instead we mostly get the same small group of extremists and mental midgets who can't deliver anything beyond bumper sticker propaganda. The few intelligent right-wing posters are all but drowned out by them.

Quality is in the eye of the holder, as is judgement of thought. As is order of magnitude. As is the "crap" from the "90%" of the "GOP sock puppets". There is not much more need in many cases than one liners to criticize left positions, they're just that F'ing retarded/stupid.

Your loss. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to attack something if you can't even bother to read it.

My "loss" here, my gain outside of AnandTech. It's our first tri-annual release in IT...taking more than 1% brainpower to respond to this post and instead using 3% brainpower to "argue" with Social234 (I "" argue, since he's so indoctrinated, there is no "winning" with him) is not worth my time. He/his Left supports can "win"...just like they have us having a "winner" O'Bummer. Just like we've got "winner" Congresspeople.

One-sided? Generally yes. He definitely posts as an advocate for the left. Lacking content? No.

There is no 'generally' with Craig. If he's criticizing something Left, it's because it's not Left enough, not because it's wrong. Craig is literally a perfect example of why America is so F'd up. He's a religous fundi, just a different religion than one would normally equate with fundi's....

Chuck
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
... There is not much more need in many cases than one liners to criticize left positions, they're just that F'ing retarded/stupid. ...
Ah, I understand now. Spoken like a true sock puppet.

Here in the real world there is rarely an issue that is so black and white, an issue where one side is so clearly good and the other so clearly evil, an issue where either side's position is so "F'ing retarded/stupid" that one can address it with any degree of intelligence or honesty with only one line. To suggest otherwise shows you are very much a part of the problem, that you are too blindly partisan to offer intelligent commentary for conservatives or against the left.

You are correct. There would be no point in you reading Craig's post. Your brain is incapable of reading and considering his words. Carry on in your bliss.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
Let me give you a simple example, one your obvious "higher" brain power can understand without me having to waste more time on this:

When a (probable) loon goes on a shooting spree and shoots a Congresswoman who didn't take his question seriously, and Lefties in here start making gun comments, 'must have been right wing' comments, Righties don't need to waste their time writing 'wall o texts' in response, one lines on F'ing stupid partisan Lefties are really all that is needed.

I really don't know a better example needed, if you don't get it, you must be a Lefty, in which case this conversation is pointless.

Chuck

P.S. I said in many cases, not all cases. Lefties in here do make good and contextually correct points, just as Righties do. Doesn't make Craig's usual partisian posts any better than they normally are though...
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Ah, I understand now. Spoken like a true sock puppet.

Here in the real world there is rarely an issue that is so black and white, an issue where one side is so clearly good and the other so clearly evil, an issue where either side's position is so "F'ing retarded/stupid" that one can address it with any degree of intelligence or honesty with only one line. To suggest otherwise shows you are very much a part of the problem, that you are too blindly partisan to offer intelligent commentary for conservatives or against the left.

You are correct. There would be no point in you reading Craig's post. Your brain is incapable of reading and considering his words. Carry on in your bliss.
This makes me wonder if YOU have ever read any of Craig's posts. Each and every one takes the position that one side is so clearly good and the other so clearly evil AND one side's position is so "F'ing retarded/stupid" and the other is clearly well-reasoned sunshine and unicorn farts AND one side's position is clearly selling out to evil costumed super villeins and the other side is bravely fighting for the American ideal (which strangely enough usually involves transmogrifying America beyond recognition.) That you share his position or even that he may be correct about a certain issue can't possibly cover up this blatant issue in every Craig post. Even those that are well reasoned come from the position that conservatives and Republicans are evil incarnate and progressives and Democrats are the very embodiment of goodness - except where they fall down in zealousness for the cause (aka selling out to corporatism.) Even when I agree with him on something I can't miss this. How can you?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Let me give you a simple example, one your obvious "higher" brain power can understand without me having to waste more time on this:

When a (probable) loon goes on a shooting spree and shoots a Congresswoman who didn't take his question seriously, and Lefties in here start making gun comments, 'must have been right wing' comments, Righties don't need to waste their time writing 'wall o texts' in response, one lines on F'ing stupid partisan Lefties are really all that is needed.

I really don't know a better example needed, if you don't get it, you must be a Lefty, in which case this conversation is pointless.

Chuck

P.S. I said in many cases, not all cases. Lefties in here do make good and contextually correct points, just as Righties do. Doesn't make Craig's usual partisian posts any better than they normally are though...
Sorry, that's a poor example for at least two reasons.

First, it was never the left's position that the shooter was right wing. It was an assumption many made in response to a breaking news event. That wasn't an unreasonable assumption given the target was a Democratic Congressman, but it obviously was jumping to conclusions based on sketchy information. There was a lot of that on both sides.

Second, speaking of sketchy information, your example incorporates information not yet available when folks were jumping to conclusions. For example, the public didn't initially know the shooter was such a nut job. We also had no clue whatsoever about his infamous question, or about how he obtained his gun. That information all came later, and as it did people's assumptions started to change.

I will concede one thing, however. There was one appropriate one-line response to the people on both sides who were so quick to jump to conclusions: "We don't know enough yet to speculate about that." This was, in fact, what many on both sides did say. That's not a very deep response, but then again we weren't refuting a position, we were reacting to breaking news.
 
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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
This makes me wonder if YOU have ever read any of Craig's posts. Each and every one takes the position that one side is so clearly good and the other so clearly evil AND one side's position is so "F'ing retarded/stupid" and the other is clearly well-reasoned sunshine and unicorn farts AND one side's position is clearly selling out to evil costumed super villeins and the other side is bravely fighting for the American ideal (which strangely enough usually involves transmogrifying America beyond recognition.) That you share his position or even that he may be correct about a certain issue can't possibly cover up this blatant issue in every Craig post. Even those that are well reasoned come from the position that conservatives and Republicans are evil incarnate and progressives and Democrats are the very embodiment of goodness - except where they fall down in zealousness for the cause (aka selling out to corporatism.) Even when I agree with him on something I can't miss this. How can you?
Because you are conflating two different issues. The issue I was addressing was one-line responses. Craig's responses may be one-sided, but they are thoughtful and supported with cogent arguments, whether you agree with him or not. "Hur, durr, The Obamessiah is a nazi socialist who is destroying America" is a waste of electrons and generally demonstrates the poster is nothing more than a brain-washed tool. (And yes, some people on the left are equally worthless.) That was my point.
 

gingermeggs

Golden Member
Dec 22, 2008
1,157
0
71
Or you could vote Libertarian or Whig and all of the same points would apply minus the culprits (Republicans) who got us into this mess. Voting independent is better than either of the two failparties.

yes, correct answer, the only way to change the duopoly of democracy!
Makes lobbying a nightmare!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Because you are conflating two different issues. The issue I was addressing was one-line responses. Craig's responses may be one-sided, but they are thoughtful and supported with cogent arguments, whether you agree with him or not. "Hur, durr, The Obamessiah is a nazi socialist who is destroying America" is a waste of electrons and generally demonstrates the poster is nothing more than a brain-washed tool. (And yes, some people on the left are equally worthless.) That was my point.
Ah, I misunderstood your point. I would say that Craig's posts are occasionally thoughtful and supported by cogent arguments, but much more often just very, very wordy versions of a one-line response about how "conservatives is ebul". YMMV