Single Payer Health Care NOW! Pass Teddy-Care.

[Darwin333]

Darwin, he's the same guy who thinks career politicians are a good thing...

Well, to a degree he has a point. Good politicians being allowed to continue being good politicians is a good thing.

In principle it could be good but the problem is in reality we have so few of them that are anywhere near what I would consider a "good career politician" and so many who I would consider self serving bastards. The system is broken to the point that it often breaks decent people with the best of intentions, in my opinion, largely due to the fact that two parties control the country. It is to the point that the parties no longer have to care about the people to keep their power and this is the result.

Craig has good intentions, I just think at times they are based upon a world or system that simply does not exist in reality. But this thread and conversation right here and now helps make my point, the two parties have manipulated their members to the point that we have no intention or desire to discuss anything with the other side. The more we fight amongst ourselves the less we pay attention to the men behind the curtain and they (Politicians both dems and reps) are winning. Sadly, that means we, the American people are losing.

The fortunate thing is that the only reason we are being manipulated by the bastards is because we allow them too. That means that we have the power and the ability to change it. What we lack as a nation is the will. "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us"

 

[bfdd]

Darwin that's fine you can still have good politicians be good politicians without them being career politicians.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'll tell you what. Save money and treat yourself. Problem solved. After all, the only reason that people go into health care is to take your money.

So Swami, how do you know what everyone feels? Magic 8 Ball? Shit son, you don't even know the first thing about the topic, but you never having done the job know more than anyone who has.

Psst, I'm still going to get paid. Doesn't that burn your balls?

I mean it's cool being an expert in your field and all, but village idiot isn't a category for Nobels.

Thank god I see this when he posts:

This message is hidden because nobodyknows is on your ignore list.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I'm so pissed off I could have a goddamn stroke, the Dems had the House, the Senate & the Presidency and couldn't fucking pass health care reform.

What a goddamn embarrassment.

We haven't seen anything yet, tens of millions are now without health insurance, adding more every day as the economy implodes, the hospitals are fucked financially caring for the people who now go into crisis mode and can't afford basic care, and flood the ER's, ICU's.

We're giving near 3rd world health care already, give it another 5-10 years and security in the hospitals will be armed.

The place I'm at now has every entrance covered by unarmed security, even the RFID'd entrances.

 

[nick1985]

We're giving near 3rd world health care already

Calm down their, chief.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Calm down their, chief.

Do me a favor & go to your local ER & look in the waiting room...

 

[Craig234]

"unprincipled "
That is based on your viewpoint (AGAIN)

The fact that they stand together against a common foe and refuse to break ranks indicates that they are more principaled that their opponents. They belive in what they stand for.

The Dems have shown that they can not come to an agreement without bribery. What does that indicate for principles.
What do they stand for - GREED first.

More delusion. The Dems CAN pass a good healthcare bill without things like the NE and LA 'bribery' - with over 50 Senators. It's the need for 60 that isn't working - there are some worse Dems and all the Repubs causing that, and the Repubs causing the 60 votes to be needed instead of 50 as they abuse the smallest minority in a very long time after losing so badly into a veto power.

You are just brainwashed. Everything the Republicans do they do for 'principle', you just say so no matter how evedent their motive is the basest, willing to leave millions uninsured because it pleases their donors.

You are not rational here. We can go on all day with the same sort of thing from you and it's pointless.

The very basic issue is that Democrats - with a mix of people with better and not so good intentions - have an overall desire to do something good for the American people with healthcare reform. The Republicans ever since President Truman brought it up and before that if it had been suggested, have opposed it out of an ideology based on the rich being the priority. When JFK pushed Medicare expansion in his campaign, Ronald Reagan entered Republican politics as the national spokeman for the industry to attack his plan as socialism. Oh, sorry, he was a really principle guy who only wanted the best for Americans' healthcare.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You are just brainwashed.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black -- no wonder no one takes you seriously.

 

[eriqesque]

I wrote mine:



Maybe we can use Ted Kennedy's passing to inspire our all too reluctant Congressional representatives to represent US, for a change.

You are an idiot
no other way to put it.

 

[nick1985]

Do me a favor & go to your local ER & look in the waiting room...

Do me a favor and go to a 3rd world country and look into their ER waiting room.

Oh wait.

 

[Craig234]

You are an idiot
no other way to put it.

Why is that?

Let's see, John Kennedy had backed the controversial civil rights bill to end segregation after a century.

He was killed, the nation mourned, and the bill got passed credited in part as a tribute to him.

Ted Kennedy's leading issue he cared about was healthcare. Harvey suggested it'd be one thing to remember in working on passing healthcare.

You call him an idiot. Hardly.

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm so pissed off I could have a goddamn stroke, the Dems had the House, the Senate & the Presidency and couldn't fucking pass health care reform.

Tell your state legislature to pass it instead.

 

[MotF Bane]

We're giving near 3rd world health care already,

Really, I think you're vastly over exaggerating.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Once there was an attorney who did very well in his corporation, so well that an engineering firm hired him as an executive.

Well the company got a contract to repair the George Washington bridge, which was in sad shape. Complicating matters is that under no condition could the bridge be closed. It had to operate at near capacity.

The chief engineer was called into the attorney's office and handed a several hundred page document. It detailed how money was to be allocated, and gave a lot of rules about how it was to be done.

The engineer said "OK, this is fine, but where are the plans and feasibility studies?"

A blank stare was his response.

The engineer explained "Before we begin a project describing how funds are to be distributed and costs controlled, we need to know just what needs to be done. We need to know the condition of the bridge in detail, assess labor and material needs, basically we need to know what needs to be done and how to do it first".

Again a blank stare.

The engineer says "I'm sorry but I have to ask. Do you know about engineering, in particular what our needs are and how to go about it? Do you know what goes on here?"

The attorney brightened now and answered with pride, "Oh of course I know. Before I went into the private sector, I served in Congress and helped craft health care legislation."

The engineer turned around and walked out, not saying a word.

 

[PJABBER]

the engineer turned around and walked out, not saying a word.

ROTFLMAO! :awe:

 

[EagleKeeper]

"unprincipled "
That is based on your viewpoint (AGAIN)

The fact that they stand together against a common foe and refuse to break ranks indicates that they are more principaled that their opponents. They belive in what they stand for.

The Dems have shown that they can not come to an agreement without bribery. What does that indicate for principles.
What do they stand for - GREED first.

More delusion. The Dems CAN pass a good healthcare bill without things like the NE and LA 'bribery' - with over 50 Senators. It's the need for 60 that isn't working - there are some worse Dems and all the Repubs causing that, and the Repubs causing the 60 votes to be needed instead of 50 as they abuse the smallest minority in a very long time after losing so badly into a veto power.

You are just brainwashed. Everything the Republicans do they do for 'principle', you just say so no matter how evedent their motive is the basest, willing to leave millions uninsured because it pleases their donors.

You are not rational here. We can go on all day with the same sort of thing from you and it's pointless.

The very basic issue is that Democrats - with a mix of people with better and not so good intentions - have an overall desire to do something good for the American people with healthcare reform. The Republicans ever since President Truman brought it up and before that if it had been suggested, have opposed it out of an ideology based on the rich being the priority. When JFK pushed Medicare expansion in his campaign, Ronald Reagan entered Republican politics as the national spokeman for the industry to attack his plan as socialism. Oh, sorry, he was a really principle guy who only wanted the best for Americans' healthcare.

Where is the rule that the people MUST insure the uninsured? It falls under the same Peter principle that the socialists live by.
No matter how hard a person works, if there is some one less fortunate, it is his responsibility to give away the hard work.

I do not see many Democrats living what they are preaching.
Even the Federal government has identified that the charity comes from the Republican states more than the Dems.

And why can not a good bill be crafted by the Democrats that does not require bribery? You are saying there are 10 Dem senators that are blocking the possibility of a "GOOD" bill. How about getting a good bill out there that your hated Republicans can not complain about. Then your "BAD" Dems can be embarressed and left on the sidelines.

The Dems have the same donors as the Republicans. As evidenced by the fact that the Health Care fiasco was adapted to be a payoff to the industry that the original sale job was to correct.

Without the rich and middle class where are the jobs for the poor?

 

[EagleKeeper]

You are an idiot
no other way to put it.

Why is that?

Let's see, John Kennedy had backed the controversial civil rights bill to end segregation after a century.

He was killed, the nation mourned, and the bill got passed credited in part as a tribute to him.

Ted Kennedy's leading issue he cared about was healthcare. Harvey suggested it'd be one thing to remember in working on passing healthcare.

You call him an idiot. Hardly.

So get a bill on the table that is worthy of the Kennedy legacy.

One that actually reforms health care and takes care of those in need.
Cost, services, drugs & technology all have to be addressed for reform Health care.

Not some half ass payola that does not accomplish anything.

 

[Craig234]

So get a bill on the table that is worthy of the Kennedy legacy.

One that actually reforms health care and takes care of those in need.
Cost, services, drugs & technology all have to be addressed for reform Health care.

Not some half ass payola that does not accomplish anything.

I agree with that, not with his post.

 

[Craig234]

More delusion.

Where is the rule that the people MUST insure the uninsured? It falls under the same Peter principle that the socialists live by.
No matter how hard a person works, if there is some one less fortunate, it is his responsibility to give away the hard work.

Parrot.

I do not see many Democrats living what they are preaching.
Even the Federal government has identified that the charity comes from the Republican states more than the Dems.

And the Democratis state pay more in taxes to subsidize the Republican states who get more han they pay.

Dems fequently pay more under their proposals for the good of the country.

And why can not a good bill be crafted by the Democrats that does not require bribery? You are saying there are 10 Dem senators that are blocking the possibility of a "GOOD" bill. How about getting a good bill out there that your hated Republicans can not complain about. Then your "BAD" Dems can be embarressed and left on the sidelines.

They can. THey have well ocver 50 votes for it. The Republicans are abusing the rules to give their tiny minoritoy of 40 after badly losing th election veto power. You can't read that the first 5 times?

And you're back with falsehoods, like the Republicans will support any 'good' bill and aren't out to block the Dems period for political gain. Not honest.

The Dems have the same donors as the Republicans. As evidenced by the fact that the Health Care fiasco was adapted to be a payoff to the industry that the original sale job was to correct.

Not quite, partly. It ended up win win for the industry - the Republs obstructing anything, the Dems passing an industry-friendly bill, either way they're ok.

Without the rich and middle class where are the jobs for the poor?

Who said anyhing about not having Rich and middle? More propaganda from you that any balance of the extreme abuse of the rich gets rid of the rich and milddle.

Here's a hint for you: the rich get rich in large part from the poor's labor.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Here's a hint for you: the rich get rich in large part from the poor's labor.

Are these people paid salaries? Of course they are, so they are being compensated accordingly. If they don't like their salary/benefits/work environment, they are free to leave and go find another job. I've done that numerous times myself.

 

[MotF Bane]

So CC, what bill would be worthy of the legacy of somebody who drunkenly drives his car off a bridge and leaves his aide in it to die?

lol @ Hayabusa. That's exactly it - these people have no clue about the real world.

 

[EagleKeeper]

More delusion.

Where is the rule that the people MUST insure the uninsured? It falls under the same Peter principle that the socialists live by.
No matter how hard a person works, if there is some one less fortunate, it is his responsibility to give away the hard work.

Parrot.
You have not addressed either of the issues stated. Why?

1) Where is the rule of law that we must insure the uninsured. And to what level? the level that cripples you?

2) What else would you call forced transfer payments and soak the rich concepts. People do not have what those above them have. So they conspire to take away from the haves vs building themselves up to a higher level.

I do not see many Democrats living what they are preaching.
Even the Federal government has identified that the charity comes from the Republican states more than the Dems.

And the Democrats state pay more in taxes to subsidize the Republican states who get more han they pay.
What does the that have to do with the charity of giving what one has to help those less fortunate. that is an individual choice. The Republicans seem to choose to do it more often and/or in larger per capita amounts.


Dems fequently pay more under their proposals for the good of the country.
Where are the Dems getting the funds - from the those that are working for the funds

And why can not a good bill be crafted by the Democrats that does not require bribery? You are saying there are 10 Dem senators that are blocking the possibility of a "GOOD" bill. How about getting a good bill out there that your hated Republicans can not complain about. Then your "BAD" Dems can be embarrassed and left on the sidelines.

They can. THey have well ocver 50 votes for it. The Republicans are abusing the rules to give their tiny minoritoy of 40 after badly losing th election veto power. You can't read that the first 5 times?
So where is the bill - one was never provided to the public for review

And you're back with falsehoods, like the Republicans will support any 'good' bill and aren't out to block the Dems period for political gain. Not honest.
And you have proof otherwise? From the beginning (day after the election), both the House and Senate leadership stated that they did not want/need the Republican input for their pet projects. the whole shut out has been for political posturing - my way or the highway. The Dems rolled out the music sheet and encouraged the Republicans to dance to it. When one is told that their input is not wanted are they supposed to walk away.
They have a responsibility to their constituents that elected them to ensure that their input is considered.

The Dems have the same donors as the Republicans. As evidenced by the fact that the Health Care fiasco was adapted to be a payoff to the industry that the original sale job was to correct.

Not quite, partly. It ended up win win for the industry - the Republs obstructing anything, the Dems passing an industry-friendly bill, either way they're ok.

The Dems have shown to be quite willing to pass a industry friendly bill. What does it actually do for the people. Who are they representing? Are your 10 problem Dems the ones forcing the handouts to the industry? Those handouts were in there from the beginning. Those 10 were not controlling the committees.

Which 10 are they?

Without the rich and middle class where are the jobs for the poor?

Who said anyhing about not having Rich and middle? More propaganda from you that any balance of the extreme abuse of the rich gets rid of the rich and milddle.

Here's a hint for you: the rich get rich in large part from the poor's labor.

If you drive out/away the rich and middle class by wealth transfer; where does that leave the poor?
With nothing. No jobs and nobody to subsidize them.

The poor have shown that they do not have the incentive to better themselves - they require handouts continually. Where are those handouts coming from?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

lol @ Hayabusa. That's exactly it - these people have no clue about the real world.

That's been my contention all along. I know health care needs reform, but it needs to be done right at the start. "Tweaking" something in place will be just as likely as fixing medicaid.

Get someone who knows what they are doing, get a report with an honest public assessment, option, costs, and likely repercussions, THEN legislate.

Never happen.

 

[spittledip]

that's been my contention all along. I know health care needs reform, but it needs to be done right at the start. "tweaking" something in place will be just as likely as fixing medicaid.

Get someone who knows what they are doing, get a report with an honest public assessment, option, costs, and likely repercussions, then legislate.

exactly!!!!

Do it right the first time. Get medical professionals and all the other professionals you need to determine the most effective and efficient program possible. What is the point of giving health care if it is crappy no-good health care? Some people think giving the "poor" a dirty shirt and a crust of bread is kindness- it is more like mockery.

 

[EagleKeeper]

that's been my contention all along. I know health care needs reform, but it needs to be done right at the start. "tweaking" something in place will be just as likely as fixing medicaid.

Get someone who knows what they are doing, get a report with an honest public assessment, option, costs, and likely repercussions, then legislate.

exactly!!!!

Fox guarding the chicken house.

That essentially would require an abdication of power. Politicians do not like to have the public dictate information to them. Hand picked cherry pickers are required.

Who determines the experts?