Since Hamas is the elected government...

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
It has begun.

Hopefully every Jihadi stands and fights like a man, so they can be turned into swiss cheese, and minimize the women and children casualites.

This is a rinse and repeat cycle. Same shit will be going on long after we're dead.

Not if the UN f's off and lets Israel do its duty.

Israel's duty is to respect the human and civil rights of all people under its rule, including the Palestinians.

Funny, they elected Hamas.

Hamas isn't a government, Israel is the controlling power in the territories. Israel is responsible for protecting the human and civil rights of the people under its rule. That the Palestinians chose Hamas over Fateh shows two things. First that Fateh sucked dog's balls and 2) Israel has been negligent in its duty to the Palestinians under its rule.

They were democratically elected to govern the Palestinian people and have government ties with countries in the Arab world.

Israel does not rule Palestine.

Israel controls the borders, the economy, the water supply, electric utilities, the monetary system, etc of the territories. This is no different than claiming white South Africa didn't really control the townships. It is an apartheid regime and Israel is responsible for it.

Hamas has been controlling those since there election. What you are saying is akin to saying Russia still controls the Ukraine because its utilities come from it.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JS80
palestinian "civilians" are certainly open game not only because they voted hamas into power, but they also help the terrorists by being human shields and hiding weapons in amongst civilians.

You have adoped the exact logic of Osama bin Laden in justifying the killing of AMerican civilians - they voted the governmet into power who put troops on Saudi soil, so they're legitmate targets that avoid the usual prohibition in Islam against the killing of such civilians.

Oh, the hypcorisy of US citizens who would assign the right to kill voters who elect leaders who do wrong. Do you have any idea how many people that allows to kill *you*?

It's just one more one-sides, short-sighted 'policy' of the right that strips away any principles from our policies and reduces them to 'might makes right'.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ironwing
Hamas isn't a government, Israel is the controlling power in the territories. Israel is responsible for protecting the human and civil rights of the people under its rule. That the Palestinians chose Hamas over Fateh shows two things. First that Fateh sucked dog's balls and 2) Israel has been negligent in its duty to the Palestinians under its rule.

They were democratically elected to govern the Palestinian people and have government ties with countries in the Arab world.

Israel does not rule Palestine.

Israel has been the de-facto controlling power of the Palestinian territories since 1967. In that time, Palestinian government has only had what power Israel allows them, be it the administration various potions of the West Bank which Fatah enjoys, or free reign on the land while Israel controls the boarders and the airspace, as they have been doing with Hamas in Gaza.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: ironwing
Hamas isn't a government, Israel is the controlling power in the territories. Israel is responsible for protecting the human and civil rights of the people under its rule. That the Palestinians chose Hamas over Fateh shows two things. First that Fateh sucked dog's balls and 2) Israel has been negligent in its duty to the Palestinians under its rule.

They were democratically elected to govern the Palestinian people and have government ties with countries in the Arab world.

Israel does not rule Palestine.

Israel has been the de-facto controlling power of the Palestinian territories since 1967. In that time, Palestinian government has only had what power Israel allows them, be it the administration various potions of the West Bank which Fatah enjoys, or free reign on the land while Israel controls the boarders and the airspace, as they have been doing with Hamas in Gaza.

That makes as much sense as saying the US controls Mexico and Canada.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: JS80
palestinian "civilians" are certainly open game not only because they voted hamas into power, but they also help the terrorists by being human shields and hiding weapons in amongst civilians.

You have adoped the exact logic of Osama bin Laden in justifying the killing of AMerican civilians - they voted the governmet into power who put troops on Saudi soil, so they're legitmate targets that avoid the usual prohibition in Islam against the killing of such civilians.

Oh, the hypcorisy of US citizens who would assign the right to kill voters who elect leaders who do wrong. Do you have any idea how many people that allows to kill *you*?

It's just one more one-sides, short-sighted 'policy' of the right that strips away any principles from our policies and reduces them to 'might makes right'.

we have some real sick mofos on this board....their blood lust has been constantly displayed the last few days..not only that but they call the Israelis pussies for not murdering every Palestinian, but their hypocritical cries about anti-semitism are followed by making the same exact kind of statements about Muslims

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Muslims inside Israel call themselves Israelis and don't want anything to do with the Palestinians.

Muslims inside Israel are rarely killed and live reasonably well, while under military occupation in Palestine those same Arabs life expectancies along with their quality of life would go down considerably.

Did you come to think otherwise because you belive everyone hates Palestinians? I as because this reminds me of when you claimed Egypt won't take Gaza, ignoring the fact that every state in the region has something to fear from the sole nuclear power there?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: Aimster
Muslims inside Israel call themselves Israelis and don't want anything to do with the Palestinians.

Muslims inside Israel are rarely killed and live reasonably well, while under military occupation in Palestine those same Arabs life expectancies along with their quality of life would go down considerably.

Did you come to think otherwise because you belive everyone hates Palestinians? I as because this reminds me of when you claimed Egypt won't take Gaza, ignoring the fact that every state in the region has something to fear from the sole nuclear power there?

"Palestinians are the dogs of the Arab world." - Direct quote from my Persian friend. The only reason other Arab states pay attention to them is because it is a proxy war against Israel.

Its like the US. Do we really give a damn about the Georgians? Does Russia really care about Venezuela or Cuba?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: JTsyo
What did Britain do when Germans fired V8 rockets into England?

Fortunately, they had the Clamato missile defense system.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnoman
Israel has been the de-facto controlling power of the Palestinian territories since 1967. In that time, Palestinian government has only had what power Israel allows them, be it the administration various potions of the West Bank which Fatah enjoys, or free reign on the land while Israel controls the boarders and the airspace, as they have been doing with Hamas in Gaza.

That makes as much sense as saying the US controls Mexico and Canada.

Here is a map of the West Bank, with the brown areas being under limited Palestinian government while the blue areas are under full Israeli control:

http://www.btselem.org/Downloa...on_Barrier_Map_Eng.pdf

Are you denying these facts?

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnoman
Israel has been the de-facto controlling power of the Palestinian territories since 1967. In that time, Palestinian government has only had what power Israel allows them, be it the administration various potions of the West Bank which Fatah enjoys, or free reign on the land while Israel controls the boarders and the airspace, as they have been doing with Hamas in Gaza.

That makes as much sense as saying the US controls Mexico and Canada.

Here is a map of the West Bank, with the brown areas being under limited Palestinian government while the blue areas are under full Israeli control:

http://www.btselem.org/Downloa...on_Barrier_Map_Eng.pdf

Are you denying these facts?

From this site?

http://www.btselem.org/English/index.asp

Yes, yes I am.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Israel has been the de-facto controlling power of the Palestinian territories since 1967. In that time, Palestinian government has only had what power Israel allows them, be it the administration various potions of the West Bank which Fatah enjoys, or free reign on the land while Israel controls the boarders and the airspace, as they have been doing with Hamas in Gaza.

...

Are you denying these facts?

Yes, yes I am.

The web site you choose to dismiss is that of an Israeli human rights origination founded by many Jews who have seen too much death and destruction on both sides, dedicated to ending this conflict, and keeps the most accurate maps I've seen. Would you please present what you belive to be an accurate map? However, even if you insist on dismissing their map, I should hope you can accept the words of our US State Department:

THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES (INCLUDING AREAS SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY)

Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and East Jerusalem during the 1967 War. In 2006 the population of Gaza was approximately 1.4 million, of the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem) approximately 2.4 million, and of East Jerusalem about 415,000, including approximately 177,000 Israelis. Approximately 250,000 Israelis resided in the West Bank. Various agreements transferred civil responsibility to the Palestinian Authority (PA) for Gaza and parts of the West Bank and divided the territories into three types of areas denoting different levels of PA and Israeli control. However, after Palestinian extremist groups resumed violence in 2000, Israeli forces resumed control over a number of these areas, citing the PA's failure to abide by its security responsibilities. During the year both violence and Israeli-imposed internal and external access restrictions increased.

...

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78854.htm#ot

Surely you won't contenue to deny these facts?

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: SamurAchzar
Wow, lots of discussions on this subject. I can say that people around the world see the picture differently now, after learning a little about Islam and its believers over the last decade. Definitely different political atmosphere (in favor of Israel).

The majority of the world is against Israel

People hate Jews.
Without the U.S Israel would burn and nobody would care. Nobody.

I wonder how Israel sustained itself for thousands of years without the USA? Geez what a foolish statement.

Israel didn't exist for thousands of years.

As the State of Israel, youre right.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Aimster
Israel didn't exist for thousands of years.

As the State of Israel, youre right.

There never as a State of Israel until 1948. There was a Kingdom of Israel thousands of years ago, and the Abrahamic faiths all agree the Kingdom of Israel will return in time, but that is rather going off topic here.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: JS80
palestinian "civilians" are certainly open game not only because they voted hamas into power, but they also help the terrorists by being human shields and hiding weapons in amongst civilians.

Apparently so with how many Palestinians have died over the past years.

 

[daniel49]

They elected Hamas. They are now reaping the fruit. If an animal can not adapt it becomes extinct.
If Hamas can not adapt and care more for a solution for the people it purports to represent, then it does for the destruction of Isreal.
The Palestinians will also become extinct.

 

[Pocatello]

Believe me, when Tel Aviv burns, so will the rest of the Arab countries. There is a reason for all of the Arab countries not to attack Israel. If the Israelis cannot defend themselves with conventional means, they will use their nuclear weapons. It's a good thing for the Palestinians that the US government is holding a leash on what the Israelis can do.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: daniel49
They elected Hamas. They are now reaping the fruit. If an animal can not adapt it becomes extinct.
If Hamas can not adapt and care more for a solution for the people it purports to represent, then it does for the destruction of Isreal.
The Palestinians will also become extinct.

Your argument is no different than Hamas justifying attacks on Israeli civilians as these civilians have voted for successive Israeli governments that have oppressed the Palestinians. Hamas is a symptom of the Israeli apartheid system. Israeli can and likely will wipe out Hamas. Then the next Hamas will pop up in response to the brutality of Israel's policies.

 

[blackangst1]

So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

Justice. No justice - no peace isn't simply a hippy buzz phrase. Peace talks can not simply lead to an end to rocket attacks or military incursions. Resolving the issue requires that Palestinians recognize and respect the human and civil rights of Israelis and vice versa. Justice requires a path forward where both Israelis and Palestinians participate in and benefit from economic development. The apartheid system must be dismantled.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

Justice. No justice - no peace isn't simply a hippy buzz phrase. Peace talks can not simply lead to an end to rocket attacks or military incursions. Resolving the issue requires that Palestinians recognize and respect the human and civil rights of Israelis and vice versa. Justice requires a path forward where both Israelis and Palestinians participate in and benefit from economic development. The apartheid system must be dismantled.

I agree in theory that is the answer; however, the views on government and religion between these two groups is so far apart, it wont happen. So realistically, whats the answer?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

Justice. No justice - no peace isn't simply a hippy buzz phrase. Peace talks can not simply lead to an end to rocket attacks or military incursions. Resolving the issue requires that Palestinians recognize and respect the human and civil rights of Israelis and vice versa. Justice requires a path forward where both Israelis and Palestinians participate in and benefit from economic development. The apartheid system must be dismantled.

I agree in theory that is the answer; however, the views on government and religion between these two groups is so far apart, it wont happen. So realistically, whats the answer?

Expel the Jews from Israel and dissolve the State of Israel. That is the solution these terror apologists want but will very rarely admit.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

Justice. No justice - no peace isn't simply a hippy buzz phrase. Peace talks can not simply lead to an end to rocket attacks or military incursions. Resolving the issue requires that Palestinians recognize and respect the human and civil rights of Israelis and vice versa. Justice requires a path forward where both Israelis and Palestinians participate in and benefit from economic development. The apartheid system must be dismantled.

I agree in theory that is the answer; however, the views on government and religion between these two groups is so far apart, it wont happen. So realistically, whats the answer?

Expel the Jews from Israel and dissolve the State of Israel. That is the solution these terror apologists want but will very rarely admit.

No, that would not create a just society. Maybe if you would knock off the macho kill'em all nonsense you might have a chance of figuring out that continued oppression has been a miserable failure.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
So whats the answer then? Diplomacy?

Stop the colonization of the West Bank. That has gone on unabated though all the previous attempts at diplomacy, and Israel's flagrant disregard for the Palestinians right to their own territory it is the reason why those previous attempts at negotiation have failed. Only after Israel stops expanding their borders will diplomacy have the opportunity to bring an end to this conflict.

 

[blackangst1]

nvm got answer from one of the other Israel threads.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: ironwing

Originally posted by: daniel49
They elected Hamas. They are now reaping the fruit. If an animal can not adapt it becomes extinct.
If Hamas can not adapt and care more for a solution for the people it purports to represent, then it does for the destruction of Isreal.
The Palestinians will also become extinct.

Your argument is no different than Hamas justifying attacks on Israeli civilians as these civilians have voted for successive Israeli governments that have oppressed the Palestinians. Hamas is a symptom of the Israeli apartheid system. Israeli can and likely will wipe out Hamas. Then the next Hamas will pop up in response to the brutality of Israel's policies.

Your reasoning is in line with Hamas and will end in 0 change.
The Illusion of thier rightous Jihad must end, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Isreal has made numerous concessions and Hamas has done nothing but propigate hate and vengence.