Signed up for my first Marathon on the way to an Iron Man. Any suggestions?

[deadken]

I'm putting this out there to hear about other peoples experiences. I'm interested in learning from other people. And, I'm hoping to make my journey a bit more satisfying while possibly being better prepared. I hope this post doesn't come of as a 'brag'. To me it is more of a journal / plan with the chance of getting valuable feedback, tips, etc...

I'm a pretty active runner who recently got into triathlons. Since Easter weekend of 2014 I've been running at least a half marathon distance at least every other weekend (on occasion, 2 times in 3 weeks instead of 2 times in 4 weeks to fit in with race / taper schedules). Typically, with my other runs, this adds up to 20+ MPW and 30+MPW (alternating weeks). I never had an interest in running a full marathon. I liked the half marathons since they were just so much more accessible (less training, easier to find, easier to fit into my schedule, etc..). But, I now am considering a Full Iron Man Triathlon in 2015, so I'm prepping for the run, then the ride, and will work on the swim last (right when the warmer weather hits).

Last year (Aug 2014) I started with a simple sprint triathlon on a whim (.5mile swim, 9.3mile ride (15k), and a 3.1mile run (5k)). I had a great time and found it to be fun. The Sprint Tri was on a Saturday, so the next day, I still ran my 13.1 miles. I found an Olympic Tri 2 weeks after that, so I signed up (.93mile swim (1.5k), 24.8mile ride (40k), and then a 6.2mile run (10k)). I finished in 2:46:xx, went to lunch and then ran an additional 7.2miles when I got home (this was the only weekend the 13+miles weren't continuous). So, feeling good and still having had fun, I signed up for a Half Iron Man 3 weeks later (1.2mile swim, 56mile ride, 13.1mile run). That event really humbled me around 2.5miles into the run. I fell apart during the last 10 miles and finished in 6:19:02, missing my goal of a sub 6hour finish because the run took me 30-35 minutes more than usual and about 20 minutes longer than expected.

So, I bought a tri bike (which is important because you don't use your running muscles as much during the ride) and have been bumping up my long run mileage (ran 20 miles 2 weeks ago) in hope of getting a marathon done. Once the marathon is done, I'm planning on doing the NY Gran Fondo (100mile ride) in May (https://granfondony.com/). If all goes well, I'll be well on my way to being prepared for an Iron Man Triathlon later this year. I'm already signed up for 4 triathlons in 2015 and will be adding another sprint and hopefully an Iron Man later. I don't want to sign up for the Iron Man if I don't think I'll be able to do it, since the entry fee is $425. So, I plan on registering right after the 100 ride in May.

So, I'm wondering if anyone has any specific suggestions. I'm figuring I'll need to carry some GU's and Jellies for nutrition. I'm figuring that if I keep on increasing my long run distance by about 1.8 miles every other week I will have run 25.2miles 2 weeks before the marathon. I'll taper down during those 2 weeks. I am caffeine free for over a decade and don't plan on using caffeine for any event this year (that can change as necessary). For what it is worth, I've had no injuries or problems with running at least a 13.1 mile run every other weekend for around 9 months. Am I wrong to assume that I can continue running a 20+ mile run every other weekend for the next 6 weeks?

If it matters, I'm 47 YO, 160lbs, and going through a divorce (yeah, there is a reason I look for excuses to get out of the house 6 days a week). On December 13th ran my fastest half marathon race (the Holiday Half, in Brooklyn NY) in 1:36:52 (7:23min mile avg), finishing 29th overall and missing third place in 45-49 by 17 seconds.

 

[marmasatt]

No suggestions here. My Tri days are over. Just a bit younger than you and did a half once. There are a few extreme runners on here but not many triathletes - and certainly not Ironmen as this is a computer/electronics website. Have you gone to any forums dedicated to Tri/Ironman Training? What specific race are you shooting for, if any? Some of the great entry level Ironman distance Tri's are the Great Floridian in Oct and then also the Lake Placid Ironman in July. You may be ready for July with such a good base already. I take it you can swim? Because people have no idea how overwhelming the swim can be. When you talk to guys who have done the full Ironman distance (and keep in mind they are elitist anyway) tell you that a full Ironman is like night and day compared to olympic distance or a half iron. The difficulty ratchets up exponentially.

Sorry about the divorce. You're probably doing alot of soul searching right now so this will help. I don't know your height or build but you seem nice and light which will help.

Go to a Tri training website (there are plenty of them but they all escape me now) where you can put in your base and then literally map out every single week until July - when you could hypothetically be ready.

It's obviously serious business so don't sleep on rest, recovery, diet, strength training. You may want to look into foam rollers, massage, etc to aid in recovery as you WILL get overtrained while training for this thing.

Good luck!

 

[deadken]

Thanks for the feedback. Can I ask why you stopped doing triathlons? Before I did my first, a bike salesman warned me about being bitten by the 'tri bug'. I didn't understand why I should be concerned about that. Who would want to do these things over and over? As it ends up, they are so much more involved compared to just running. Yes, there are just so many different things that can go wrong. But, I like that I am forced to mix up my training and vary different areas on different days. It's also a bit different where I'm not so focused on just one area. Which can help with injury prevention, keep things from getting boring, and actually be a bit softer on the body compared to just doing one thing. IE: I just ran 21.6 miles today in 2:47:35 (http://www.sports-tracker.com/workout/deadken/54b18aede4b0201839315917). I was wiped out when I finished. I just took a nap and still feel sore and feel it every time I stand up. After doing that Olympic triathlon (2:46:XX) I felt fine. No aches, no pain. Same duration, but with such different activities I didn't overdo any one area.

I thought that I was going to hate triathletes. I assumed that all involved were going to be a bunch of Alpha Males and I would constantly be seeing people who are defensive and trying to exert some sort of superiority. I'm glad to say that I was wrong. I've met so many nice people I can't believe it. Yes, it happens to be a field predominantly filled by white men who probably have higher than average incomes. But, I can't believe how cool so many of them are. IE: I was at the tri store recently looking into a bike trainer for the winter. I was trying to decide if I really wanted to spend $1100 on a trainer. Most every cyclist I ask HATES trainers. I get that. It's probably like how I HATE running on a treadmill. So, I'm wondering if I should 'only' spend $300 - $400 and likely hate it like everyone else does. Or, should I go 'all in' and perhaps have a much better experience. Well a guy comes into the store and the owner says 'Hey Ken, talk to this guy... He owns 2 of them'. Sure enough the guy bought one and liked it so much that he bought one for his wife. He tells me about them and then HE INVITES ME TO HIS HOUSE! He suggests that I come over and ride one with him and get a feel for it before I spend so much money. I've never had a runner that I just met offer to go out of his way like that for me! Maybe I've been lucky? Maybe most people don't see me as a threat? Who knows, but I've met some great people in these last few months.

Thanks for your concerns. But frankly, at this time, this divorce is the best thing for me. I tell people that you know that something is wrong when getting out of the house 6 days a week for running isn't enough. I had to go ahead and start riding and swimming too! Right now we are amicable and we are using a divorce mediator. She knows that I'm not looking to screw her (if anything, I've been screwed by her) and she had to have known that things couldn't just keep going on like they were. Right now, I still love my life! Yes, things are still hard, but they aren't as terrible as they were just a few months / years ago.

I've heard about Florida being a good 'starter' Iron Man. But, Lake Placid is supposed to be TOUGH! Lots of elevation changes and some technical parts. Add to that a fresh water swim and it just gets a little harder. The other problem is that the Iron Man (trademark) events are so popular that they usually sell out the first day they go on sale, which is the day after the previous years event (IOW: 364 days before it takes place). I'm looking to do a Iron Man 'distance' event. I'm hoping that the Beach to Battleship will still have slots open in 4 months when I'll know a lot more about if I'll be ready or not. Another great thing is that the B2B is taking place on October 17th in North Carolina. So, with me going back to do the Mighty Montauk Half Iron Man on Oct 4th, it should be a good last 'training' event with a two week taper until the full I.M. Also, the B2B seems to time the swim to take place with the current. My friend who did B2B in 2014 did the 2.4mile swim in around 54 minutes. I did the 1.2mile swim in a lake in Montauk in just under 50 minutes.

I don't go nuts during the swim. I figure it is the least likely place to really have to worry about time. I mean, if you beat me by 11 minutes during the swim that would be a big gap. But, over the course of the 112 mile ride or the 26.2 mile run, it'd be a lot easier to make up 11 minutes. So, I try to enjoy the swim. I say: If I have a bad swim, the rest of the day is probably going to be REALLY bad...

I'm starting to feel stupid for signing up for the marathon in February. I really need to get better at picking out clothing based upon the temperatures. Today was in the high teens to twenties and I sweat so badly that I ended up changing my shirts at the halfway point. That isn't something that I'll be able to do during the marathon.

Good point about going to a triathlon specific website. I've just been so fortunate to get a lot of great advice here, that this is where I started. I do know that Penguin Power offers a lot of Triathlon experience. I figured that there would be more long distance runners. We will have to see if anyone else chimes in.

Oh yeah, I'm around 5' 11".

 

[marmasatt]

I think alot of the notions that the sport is dominated by rich, white, alpha-males is true. That old joke applies here too: "How do you know that the man or woman you are speaking to is a triathlete? Don't worry, 30 seconds into the conversation, they'll tell you." But you make some good points about it being a community. There is really a sense of comraderie. You can hang out with complete strangers and feel like you are family or you're all in it together.

I'm not sure why I don't do them anymore. If I had to guess I got married and had kids. I was doing them in my twenties. Then you get married and its not about you anymore. Even more so when you have children. You have less time, less money. And lets face it, Triathlon is a very selfish, self-absorbed, narcissistic sport. It will help you out with your personal crisis for sure. But it's tough on anyone who's not you, lol.

It's definitely a bug. Alot of stuff is like that and Triathlon is no different. You get "the fever." You go out and do a race. Then you realize you don't have a wetsuit. Then you borrow a bike. They you buy a bike. Then you realize your $300 bike is too cheap to race triathlon, etc.

There are at least 3 ultra/long distance runners on here, Bateuler, Megatomic, TraumaRN I believe.

 

[Kaido]

Best resource I can point you to is the IRONSTRUCK book by Ray Fauteux. It's available in Kindle eBook format now, which you can read right in your browser anywhere:

http://www.amazon.com/Ironstruck-Iro.../dp/B00PN0GUQA

People who run triathlons are generally pretty cool people, typically very self-motivated since an Ironman is more of an endurance race against yourself than anything, and very drawn into it because it has a special allure for certain types of people. I have a really good group in my area, lots of neat people who are into it. There are always going to be some Type A people with too much energy & arrogance running around, totally focused on setting PR's (which is fine), but events like Ironman are about finishing, not winning, so people tend to be a lot more open & group-welcoming than other groups I've been in, especially since it's such a difficult thing to do.

Once you get bit by the Iron bug, it's hard to let go. It doesn't really make any kind of logical sense to pursue something like that, but once you're in, you're in I highly recommend pouring over the book above; the author does a complete pre-race, race, and post-race walkthrough. He has some really excellent training suggestions & explains WHY, which was really important to me when I was getting in shape.

 

[Kaido]

Also, if you really want to take it to the next level, I'd recommend at least a temporary diet modification. One of my favorite exercise diets is the Thrive diet by Brendan Brazier, who runs a lot of triathlon-type stuff. It's completely vegan, which is why I say it's kind of a next-level thing...not many people like changing their diets, but I get really good results when I go on it. You make your own gels & gatorade, as well as energy bars, which are great for different portions of the race. There's a Kindle eBook version of this book available now as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Thrive-Nutriti...dp/B004GB1FTY/

imo, the best diet for performance is one step above that, which is fruitarian. That's like vegan but with mostly fruit (yes, it's a legit diet, not a BS diet). I did it last summer with awesome results. It's three or four thousand calories a day, minimum, and you feel fantastic on it - lots & lots of energy because you're inhaling carbs & sugar, but it's very low fat, with high fiber. The guy to read up on for that is Michael Arnstein:

http://www.thefruitarian.com/

And as long as you're doing some reading, check out Rich Roll, an ultramarathoner with a plant-based diet, really interesting guy:

http://www.richroll.com/bio/

Diet is important, but having a good training program & making sure you have a good in-race plan are the key elements. My buddy's girlfriend just completed her first Ironman and she's a total pig when it comes to food, worse than me - she'll get half a dozen donuts & won't share any with the rest of us So if you have a solid training program, make sure to pace your race & keep up on your hydration & food intake during the race, then diet matters less, but you'll feel better & get better results the better your diet is. So, it's something to think about...diet changes are hard though.

 

[RagingBITCH]

I've never done an IM but have plenty of friends who have. Simply put, running marathon by itself is way different than running it during an Ironman, because during the IM you are just spent and struggling to make it the full 26.2 miles. On fresh legs, a full marathon is a different beast.

Nutrition wise - that's really going to depend on you and what you've already tried in training and for your half IM. Did you use Gu's and gel's? What do you train with nutrition wise currently? Is your diet fairly carb heavy now, where your body is a bit dependent upon it? Or are you more of the low carb/sugar diet now? All of that plays a part. What is your nutrition plan for the full IM? If it works for you now, don't change it.

Simply put, go into it with no expectations and keep what you've already been doing. You could race it, but it's going to wipe out your legs. I'd take it more as a long training run to get not only your mind but your body psychologically ready for the distance.

 

[Mursilis]

Deadken, you have some serious speed for someone your age and with your light training load. If you up your running mileage, you'd be surprised how fast you can be. My brother does tri's and I tease him by asking why he wants to be mediocre at three events when he could be great at one, but in all seriousness, doing a full ironman is a worthy goal and great accomplishment if you can pull it off (which I think you can). Having run five marathons with more to come, my best advice would be to pace yourself properly. Don't fall into the trap of speeding up in the first half because you feel so great, only to blow up in the second half and lose huge time. Proper pacing is the key. Best of luck to you and give us a race report when you've finished. Which marathon are you doing?

 

[PenguinPower]

Lots of people like to make it complicated, but it really boils down to two things.

1.) Pacing. Train with a metric (HR or Power). Find the number and ceiling where you feel like you can keep going forever (usually right below LTHR) and make sure you don't go over that. No, not even on hills. That will set you up for a good run.

2.) Create a nutrition plan and stick to it. Start taking nutrition during your long rides and find out what works best for you. Is it gels/gus? Is it liquid-only? Do you tolerate whole food well? Figure that out, and don't deviate. Also, make sure not to take in too much lest you experience extreme GI issues that have you running for the Port-o-Potty every mile. You're already going to have GI issues...guaranteed...don't make them worse.

You can get all fancy with training, diet and so on if you really want to; but, if you get the two things above in order, you'll be fine. Also, don't stop to pee...pee while you're riding. That goes for the HIM as well.

A girl in my Endurance club just finished Kona this year sub-12hr. Ask anyone who was there, but with the headwinds the way they were, that's great for a female age grouper. All she did was focus on those two items above. Nothing fancy with training or diet.

Put in the hours, find your number and nutrition, and don't deviate. That's it. Well, besides peeing while riding. Always pee while riding.

 

[deadken]

Thanks for all of the great information guys. I truly appreciate it.
Marmasatt: Thanks again. I appreciate your story and you sharing your experience.

Kaido: Thanks! You are the man when it comes to book suggestions. I'm planning on doing some traveling soon. So, I guess I'll pick up some of the books you suggested to bring with me.

RagingBITCH: Good points. I've realized that I need to start switching what I eat while I run to things more portable (I usually stop off every 3.6 miles for some water and eat something from my house at the same time). I've started using GU's and a few Jellies. A co-worker who does a lot of marathons (and who is faster than I am) suggests a GU every 5 miles whether you feel the need for one or not. I'm experimenting with a just GU and Jelly race diet. I have one more long run (Feb 8th) to see if everything works out right!

Mursilis: I've been building my mileage up, so I've started to develop a 'Marathon Pace'. It seems that I start off at pretty much my Half Marathon pace and then gradually slow down until I fall into a 8:3X pace. I'm doing the NYCRUNS Central Park Marathon: https://nycruns.com/races/?race=nycruns-central-park-marathon-2015

PenguinPower: Good points! You make a very strong case for using metrics. I already run with a HRM. I'll just have to start setting zones and staying within them! I do have a Power Meter on my Wahoo Kickr and I figure that when the spring comes I *might* buy one for my Tri Bike. The owner of the Tri store (where I bought my bike) suggested using power on the bike the same way: Find your max number for a certain distance and then don't exceed it when doing a race of the same distance. Once I get past this Marathon, I'm figuring I can taper my running mileage back down to doing a Half Marathon every other week. With the 'extra' time I'm NOT spending running, I plan to get on the trainer for the last few weeks of Winter!

Thanks again everyone! Each one of you gave me good food for thought in a different area.

FWIW: I ended up doing a full 26.2 mile run last Saturday (01-24-15). Unfortunately, 3 laps into a 11 lap course I accidentally stopped my training app (when I meant to pause it). After a few minutes of cursing and seeing if I could 'undo' it, I just started up another workout and continued the run. It took me around 3:37:xx to finish.
http://www.sports-tracker.com/workout/deadken/54c3cb7ce4b0201839ca6fc2
http://www.sports-tracker.com/workout/deadken/54c3f98be4b0c8e2f31306d7
It seems that somehow the GPS signal got lost and it looks like I cut across the loop somewhere in the middle of the second workout. I didn't, but this would explain why I ended up having to run an additional .5 miles at the end of what should have been 26.2miles. Oh well, just another reason for me to buy a Garmin 920XT!
I'm happy to say that this was only supposed to be a 23.4 mile run, but I felt so good at the end of it that I decided to do another lap to make it 26.2. While I certainly felt wiped after this run, I didn't feel nearly as bad as after I ran that 21.6 two weeks ago! I even rode and ran a bit the next day!

 

[Mursilis]

That's a solid result on your "training" marathon, but don't fall into the trap of trying to cram all your training into a single long run. I rarely run more than 16 mile long runs, even during a marathon training cycle, but I also try to hit 50 miles per week or more, with most runs in the 6-12 mile range, plus speed and tempo work. The higher weekly volume is what builds endurance, not one or two super-long runs. I've run a 50K and sub-3:30 and sub-3:20 marathons off a more-volume, less-distance approach, so it works, at least for me.

Between now and your February marathon, I'd do a little tapering in the last two weeks. With proper pacing, you're probably capable of a sub-3:30. I'd shoot for solid 8:00 splits for the first 20 miles and then just let it rip for the final 10K. Just leave it all out on the course. Good luck!!

 

[Blanky]

If you start to develop pain, cut back your training and throw the race, regardless of what it is. Too many people train through pain and cause long term issues. I have permanent knee damage from running when I shouldn't have and even after years of stopping it is a constant reminder of my earlier arrogant and folly. Please take this seriously.

Runners lie to themselves all the time about the potential injury they are causing. Just don't be that guy.

 

[deadken]

If you start to develop pain, cut back your training and throw the race, regardless of what it is. ...

Runners lie to themselves all the time about the potential injury they are causing. Just don't be that guy.

Thanks, but pain / injuries aren't an issue at this point. I tend to ignore a bit of muscle pain. But, when it comes to joint pain I take it very seriously.