Sigh, I am really starting to hate Obama now

[Freshgeardude]

Here

It really ticks me off knowing how much of a politician he really is. He promised more money to nasa in florida and texas but then goes to another state and said he wants to cut from these programs.

that is pretty bad, but not the main reason I am angry....

he wants to completely scrap the ENTIRE ares program! how are we suppose to get to space now after 2010....

how about this too

The transition team is demanding deep cuts from the agency, and is investigating whether old military rockets such as the Delta IV and Atlas V could be used in place of Ares.

oh please, those rockets are so obsolete.. im sure they will cost way to much money now to dig back into those projects and try and make them usable.



being that I want to be an astro physicist in college(in high school right now) and live in florida, my options can be quite big for NASA, seeing more cuts to NASA is killing me inside


here is another article talking about it

Text

is pretty clear that

Obama may be considering ending the Ares rocket program, intended to be the replacement for the space shuttle.

and this also means

This could mean potentially for the first time in over 40 years the agency may have no method to send astronauts into space.

 

[Genx87]

Hehe well we are in a recession on the verge of a depression. Cuts are expected. However I will enjoy watching people who blasted Bush for not supporting NASA as much as he could praise Obama for this move.

 

[IronWing]

Shrug. With every new administration we see a changing of the guard wrt the major defense/space contractors. LoMart in - Boeing out, Boeing in - LoMart out, save the last dance for Rockwell.

 

[Freshgeardude]

have a look at this, im sure there are hundreds of more things

Text

ALL from funding NASA. ALL.

how about Velcro? came from NASA.

just look at how many things in our daily life we have because of nasa and funding to nasa, imagine how much we can discover on the moon and beyond.

 

[sunzt]

Everyone please take a second and see the rationale here from the view of an industry insider.

Obama wants to temporarily stop Ares development because of its costs and schedule. What is being proposed is to see if a delta or atlas can be retrofitted with an Orion or some new CEV. This would not only be more cost effective, but also save schedule time since you don't need to design a completely new launch vehicle. He does not seem to be interested in ending or slowing Orion.

NASA's Constellation program will eventually get us to Mars, but lets not forget that it was designed to get to the Moon first. While it would be nice to have Ares development concurrent with Orion, it would not be on the critical path to the Moon if a replacement was used. Current economic conditions also bring lots of pressure. I believe that a delta or atlas is capable of getting us to the moon and are pretty well tested. As I said before, modifying an existing launch vehicle to use an Orion (or other CEV) will (for the short term) be more effective than waiting for the maturity and testing o an Ares. Especially in difficult economic times.

I do NOT believe that Obama is trying to stop NASA from meeting its current mission goals and exploring the moon. He is shifting focus away from Mars/Moon to Earth Orbit/Moon.

 

[MovingTarget]

Perhaps he would rather go with an alternative such as Jupiter or DIRECT v2.0 instead of Ares? Those utilize more currently exisiting hardware already in place. Or, he could go the commercial route should the COTS program produce a successful vehicle (such as Falcon 9/Dragon). Nasa needs a shot in the arm after being burdened so long with the shuttles.

Come to think of it, why don't we have a cheap "shuttle" to the space station? Something similar to the smaller Gemini capsule, but updated with newer tech so we can rotate crews and provide basic supplies similar to soyuz?

 

[Freshgeardude]

then explain this part of the article

President-Elect Obama's transition team is planning to scrap NASA's Ares program, the successor to the Space Shuttle, say NASA advisors. The transition team is demanding deep cuts from the agency, and is investigating whether old military rockets such as the Delta IV and Atlas V could be used in place of Ares.

yes it says using older rockets, but it does say he wants to do major cuts and scrap the entire program.

please go ahead and expain that

 

[ProfJohn]

Velcro has nothing to do with NASA, was invented long before space flight.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude
then explain this part of the article

President-Elect Obama's transition team is planning to scrap NASA's Ares program, the successor to the Space Shuttle, say NASA advisors. The transition team is demanding deep cuts from the agency, and is investigating whether old military rockets such as the Delta IV and Atlas V could be used in place of Ares.

yes it says using older rockets, but it does say he wants to do major cuts and scrap the entire program.

please go ahead and expain that

As for scrapping, i'm not totally sure about it. The latest I heard was that there would still be design work, just not actual building or flight testing. Much of the Ares resources would be shifted to reviewing modified launch systems to get to the moon with a CEV. All the design reviews that have been done so far for Ares would not be in vain, and all that info would still be used and worked on. Ares, IMO, is our first cut at getting to Mars so as long as NASA plans to go to Mars Ares will still be around. It's just not the focus now.

 

[Freshgeardude]

ya, not even in out life time probably, they had plans for 2050 from last time I read, it will probably be put off for another 50 years..

 

[IronWing]

OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: ironwing
OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

if you honestly think NASA just uses billions of tax dollars for nothing more than politics, you must be an idiot.

we have learned so much from just being in space, especially from the other programs on earth.

have you also heard we have saved MILLIONS OF LIVES from early detection of hurricanes, and other natural disasters, ALL FROM NASA

 

[Aimster]

We are in debt. We can't invest in big projects.
We can act like we are not in debt and collapse like the Soviets

 

[NeoV]

slow down non-prof John, saying Nasa had nothing to do with Velcro is not accurate - which is no surprise coming from you.

"Velcro got its first break when it was used in the aerospace industry to help astronauts maneuver in and out of bulky space suits. However, this reinforced the view among the populace that velcro was something with a very limited utilitarian uses. The next major use velcro saw was with skiers, who saw the similarities between their costume and the astronauts, and thus saw the advantages of a suit that was easier to get in and out of. Scuba and marine gear followed soon after. After seeing astronauts storing food pouches on walls[12] and stand upright in the weightless atmosphere with the aid of velcro, children's clothing makers came onboard.[11] As velcro only became widely used after NASA's adoption of it, NASA is popularly credited with the invention of velcro."

While they didn't invent it, they certainly improved it quite a bit, to the point that it was then used in many other applications and industries.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: ironwing
OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

if you honestly think NASA just uses billions of tax dollars for nothing more than politics, you must be an idiot.

we have learned so much from just being in space, especially from the other programs on earth.

have you also heard we have saved MILLIONS OF LIVES from early detection of hurricanes, and other natural disasters, ALL FROM NASA

That's all great, but how do you want to pay for all of this spending? The truth is that cutting spending anywhere hurts somebody. Based on what Obama has always said about science and his support of scientific endeavors, I don't think he really WANTS to cut spending for NASA, but rather sees it a necessity in light of the economy.

 

[conehead433]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Velcro has nothing to do with NASA, was invented long before space flight.

Anyone who watched Enterprise knows that the Vulcans introduced Velcro to humans.

 

[Brainonska511]

Ares development has been costly and loaded with delays. They should have looked towards retrofitting current rocket designs, like the Atlas series.

As far as going back to the Moon or Mars with humans at this time, what's the point? You can send many more robotic missions for the cost of one human mission at the moment. I'm not saying that we should never send people to Mars, but that's off in the future and we should keep developing and testing technologies that can get them there faster and keep them in good health for the journey. We should still maintain a presence in space, such as a space station to better understand the long-term effects of zero-gravity and higher levels of solar radiation; this knowledge can be utilized later when we do eventually send people to Mars and other places of our Solar System.

 

[theeedude]

So basically the OP is pissed off that the taxpayers aren't going to subsidize his future career choice. Maybe he should become a banker

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: ironwing
OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

ill quote this again

Text


every time you drink water from the tap, bottles, or anything that is from a civilized place, you can honestly say, hmm this looks safe to drink.

Waste of tax dollars right? keeping you healthy. Nasa invented water filters.

next, every time you use a pair a shoes, you use an invention of NASA, shoe insoles, I wonder how bad your feet will feel without those.

waste of tax dollars right?

want to call a friend or family from a long distance? hmm from coast to coast, from continent to continent? well guess what? NASA

waste of tax dollars right?


how about hand vacuum cleaners and cordless drills? ever need to use those?
Nasa once again...

so you say that Nasa is a waste of tax dollars, yet you use EVERY thing I listed above, and I am SURE there is plenty more

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: NeoV
slow down non-prof John, saying Nasa had nothing to do with Velcro is not accurate - which is no surprise coming from you.

Whats the point of saying non-prof John? I really do fear some evil, I highly doubt you are named NeoV.. I doubt 'MovingTarget' is really moving most of the time, he's probably more a stationary target.. Aimster probably doesn't have good aim, ironwing is probably not made out of iron, or a wing, or an ironwing.. etc. I guess it just seems silly to try to say someone's alias on an internet forum is somehow reality.

 

[Young Grasshopper]

Space exploration = waste of money

 

[Eeezee]

Don't worry: 90% of people in high school who want to be astrophysicists will drop out before finishing the astronomy OR physics degree.

And besides that, you're looking at 9-10 years of college before you get your PhD and will be considered for employment at NASA. Obama is only here for 4 or 8 years. Even if he does cut NASA's budget, he'll be gone by the time you finish your doctorate.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: ironwing
OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

if you honestly think NASA just uses billions of tax dollars for nothing more than politics, you must be an idiot.

we have learned so much from just being in space, especially from the other programs on earth.

have you also heard we have saved MILLIONS OF LIVES from early detection of hurricanes, and other natural disasters, ALL FROM NASA

That's all great, but how do you want to pay for all of this spending? The truth is that cutting spending anywhere hurts somebody. Based on what Obama has always said about science and his support of scientific endeavors, I don't think he really WANTS to cut spending for NASA, but rather sees it a necessity in light of the economy.

Obama has stated his support for science and its necessity for making America the greatest country in the world. Science spending of any form, whether it's in NASA, the DOE, or other forms of funding, is the best way our government can spend taxes. It produces higher return than any other form of spending.

If he does cut NASA's budget, then he's misunderstanding how important science spending is to the future of our nation. I think he realizes the impact it would have in the long run, and I don't think Obama is actually going to cut NASA's budget unless Congress is absolutely unyielding over the issue.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Young Grasshopper
Space exploration = waste of money

You = short-sighted. The act of space exploration isn't what's important, it's the scientific and engineering accomplishments made along the way that produce enormous benefits to our society. Winning the space race did so much more for our country than people like you are willing to admit.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: ironwing
OP: I think you might be under the impression that NASA is an agency primarily concerned with science and engineering. It isn't. NASA's function is to transfer billions of tax dollars per year to politically connected contractors. What we get in return is largely irrelevant in the equation. Putting on a show for the public once in a while is good marketing but that's about all it it. Ares in/out, Atlas in/out is a political decision based on who greased whom more.

ill quote this again

Text


every time you drink water from the tap, bottles, or anything that is from a civilized place, you can honestly say, hmm this looks safe to drink.

Waste of tax dollars right? keeping you healthy. Nasa invented water filters.

next, every time you use a pair a shoes, you use an invention of NASA, shoe insoles, I wonder how bad your feet will feel without those.

waste of tax dollars right?

want to call a friend or family from a long distance? hmm from coast to coast, from continent to continent? well guess what? NASA

waste of tax dollars right?


how about hand vacuum cleaners and cordless drills? ever need to use those?
Nasa once again...

so you say that Nasa is a waste of tax dollars, yet you use EVERY thing I listed above, and I am SURE there is plenty more

and Tang.