Should welfare recipients be allowed to have luxury items?

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CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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I'll disagree on a couple of those: vehicle & computer with internet connection. The latter in the case of children & it puts them at a huge disadvantage educationally. And, depending on where the person lives, a vehicle can very much be a necessity. i.e. if you lived where I live, you are NOT going to walk to get groceries.

As far as all the other things like 50" HDTVs - think of all the people employed by Rent-A-Center and places like that! What will they do without welfare recipients keeping them in business??
I have family in rural Texas who used to drive 2 hours each way to get groceries, but even their podunk village has its own store now. Where do you live that riding a bus or bike isn't an option? I've walked, biked, and used public transportation to get groceries or go wherever I need to go (while in high school, working in Europe, waiting for new-ish car parts to push the life of my beater car through grad school).

I've been reading lots of books on early education and future success in areas requiring higher education. There are plenty of people who have achieved at the highest level despite being essentially illiterate as a child growing up in the sticks. There are also plenty of people given every advantage who fail. Maybe giving kids these advantages increases the probability that they will achieve to their fullest potential, but that's certainly debatable at this point. In any case, if internet access is really necessary for schooling, it should be available at school. That's a much more cost-effective option than putting a computer and internet in every person's home and will achieve most of the same benefits.
 
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xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
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Actually I agree with you for the most part. It's just that there are some who really are affected seriously by it, and many who are at least somewhat impacted by it even if not seriously.

And like I said, those with actual medical reasons to have AC should be able to get it even as part of their benefits package.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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I have family in rural Texas who used to drive 2 hours each way to get groceries, but even their podunk village has its own store now. Where do you live that riding a bus or bike isn't an option? I've walked, biked, and used public transportation to get groceries or go wherever I need to go (while in high school, working in Europe, waiting for new-ish car parts to push the life of my beater car through grad school).

there is NO bus and riding a bike IS NOT a option. to get a groceries its a 25 minute drive into town. No we don't have any store at all in town.

EVEN the other towns around us that have small stores they are not good for real shopping. they are good if you need milk and beer.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
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Government aid should never come in the form of money, only vouchers, food-stamps, etc.

I agree that people on welfare should exercise, eat healthy and not be able to smoke or drink.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
there is NO bus and riding a bike IS NOT a option. to get a groceries its a 25 minute drive into town. No we don't have any store at all in town.

EVEN the other towns around us that have small stores they are not good for real shopping. they are good if you need milk and beer.

You should open a local grocery store and rake in the cash.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
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Funny how small government people get big government really quick when there is a chance to fuck over poor people.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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Funny how small government people get big government really quick when there is a chance to fuck over poor people.

Don't want government in your life? Don't invite them in by taking "their" money. It's really that simple. Once you take the welfare you should forfeit most of your rights as part of the deal. You get them back only when you stop taking the money. Make being on welfare HURT and shameful, not something to viewed as "free money".
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Luxury items include things like:
cell phones
flat screen HDTVs
air conditioning
current generation game consoles
cars less than say 5 years old

...anything else you care to add.

No, an NO cars at all, that's the way it is in England.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Don't want government in your life? Don't invite them in by taking "their" money. It's really that simple. Once you take the welfare you should forfeit most of your rights as part of the deal. You get them back only when you stop taking the money. Make being on welfare HURT and shameful, not something to viewed as "free money".

So if you do wrong government should grow into your life and restrict your liberty until they can prove it?

You sound like the usual HUGE government conservative, just like all conservatives are, with all the regulation the government grows and liberties are revoked, it doesn't take a liberal to see that, even not completely retarded conservatives understand it.

Not Tea partiers though, they dont' understand anything at all.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
You should open a local grocery store and rake in the cash.

there was one near me. but it closed down because they couldn't make a profit. i have plenty of stores 17 miles from me. from 3 super wal-marts (3 diffrent towns), to high end stores, a sams club, and Woodman's (love it!)

so people would rather travel the extra 14 miles and save a bundle.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
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Did you notice I said libraries can't handle everybody on welfare or unemployment using their computers?

A low budget computer costs about $200. Face it... this "poor people shouldn't waste money on internets" trope is stupid. Internet access is a utility just like electricity and gas. Grow up.
I lived for years without internet. I somehow doubt I would have made it as long without food, water, or heat. At some point, the line between need and want has been blurred or erased. That hardly renders the debate about where society should draw this line stupid, nor does it make me immature.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Funny how small government people get big government really quick when there is a chance to fuck over poor people.

Now making sure that our tax dollars are not wasted is being "big government"? You are an idiot.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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I lived for years without internet. I somehow doubt I would have made it as long without food, water, or heat. At some point, the line between need and want has been blurred or erased. That hardly renders the debate about where society should draw this line stupid, nor does it make me immature.

sure. but times change. i really couldn't see living without the internet.

its extremely useful for school, budgets, finding deals, emergencies (i use it for a tornado siren when in the spring), not to mention work etc.

i have to say i think its a NEED now.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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sure. but times change. i really couldn't see living without the internet.

its extremely useful for school, budgets, finding deals, emergencies (i use it for a tornado siren when in the spring), not to mention work etc.

i have to say i think its a NEED now.

It's not a need, not even close. Of course it may be a necessity for work, but then again, that would mean that you have a job, and are not collecting welfare. If you don't have one, but need it for work than there's a reason to get one ...with your pay check.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
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You can feel free to argue it with the CDC and the entire medical establishment of the free world. Let me know how it goes for you.

Seriously retarded you are. People have been living quite well in areas that average over 70F DAILY without AC for thousands of years. You aren't making any sort of argument except for comfort and comfort is debatable as what is comfortable to one is not comfortable to another. PS it is 70F here right now guess everyone better get inside and out of the heat! Oh wait... 70F isn't hot at all.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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It's not a need, not even close. Of course it may be a necessity for work, but then again, that would mean that you have a job, and are not collecting welfare. If you don't have one, but need it for work than there's a reason to get one ...with your pay check.

I think his point is that it's almost neccessary to FIND work.

But then again, you want the government involved in the smallest cracks of everyones lives so if they should have an internet connection that should be known to the HUGE government that is now supervising everyones life.

Good luck with that, i hear it's working well in Belarus.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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I think his point is that it's almost neccessary to FIND work.

No, it's not, people get jobs everyday without using a computer. Instead of isolating themselves at home trying to find a job in the digital market they should be out pounding the pavement, and actually interacting with humans.

But then again, you want the government involved in the smallest cracks of everyones lives so if they should have an internet connection that should be known to the HUGE government that is now supervising everyones life.

Lie. I want people that claim they need tax payer money to not waste it on drugs and alcohol. Less people sponging off welfare means less government in people's lives, your entire premise is a blatant falsehood.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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No, it's not, people get jobs everyday without using a computer. Instead of isolating themselves at home trying to find a job in the digital market they should be out pounding the pavement, and actually interacting with humans.

Ok, it helps them find jobs more easily, easier to present resumes and respond to e-mail... if you are going to argue against this too, this discussion is over.

Lie. I want people that claim they need tax payer money to not waste it on drugs and alcohol. Less people sponging off welfare means less government in people's lives, your entire premise is a blatant falsehood.

That's awesome, so the government should effectively control peoples entire lives... that's what small government means to you?

Less people being as stupid as you are would make this world a better place, i suggest an education program, like high school but teaching you basic logic because you lack any logic thought what so ever.

That said, as a liberal, i definently support your stance but with the exception that it should not come with supervision but rather on a case basis, see, i'm a liberal, not a HUGE government conservative who drools at the opportunity of removing liberties from peoples lives.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Ok, it helps them find jobs more easily, easier to present resumes and respond to e-mail... if you are going to argue against this too, this discussion is over.

Some jobs, not all, therefore it is not a necessity.

That's awesome, so the government should effectively control peoples entire lives... that's what small government means to you?
How are you even getting that from what I said? Are you retarded or something? Don't bother answering, we already know. Drug testing to receive tax payer dollars isn't anything even in the same universe as government effectively controlling people's entire lives. You're an idiot.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
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:rolleyes:

Not exactly lots of 400sqft apartments and houses with no windows, or fans, even the projects have windows. I don't have to experiment with anything, I've lived in South Texas for decades, and many of those years was without AC. It's not always comfortable, but AC is most definitely NOT a necessity.

I don't use AC but it gets to 85F indoors during the day in the winter. In the summer it will probably reach 90F. This is a house made for this climate, with the assumption that no AC exists.
And this is Hawaii, not Texas or the South.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
for most AC is not something you really need. Saying that every year we read about poor people on budgets that refuse to turn it on dieing. is it needed for most? no. but if you are young (under 1), or old or health issues you really should use it.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
This discussion is over.

It was over as soon as you and your failure posted. If you really think that internet is a necessity to get a job you are an idiot that lives in some alternate reality that thinks people just started working ten years ago.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
One problem is how the rules are set up. You are allowed to have 1 car and 1 home but no value limits are set on those items. Part of the reason for that is it is too heavy a burden on the government to determine what is an appropriate home value limit for one part of town vs another, or one state to another.

For example to get assistance in NC you have to meet the following for family of 4:
Income limit $2400 monthly
must be a U. S. Citizen or an immigrant admitted to the United States under a specific immigration status.
individuals are required to participate in Food and Nutrition Services work programs, such as Employment and Training and Workfare. These individuals must meet special work requirements. Able-bodied adults between 18 and 49 who do not have any dependent children can get benefits only for 3 months in a 36-month period if they do not work or participate in a Workfare or Employment and Training program other than job search.
This limited eligibility requirement does not apply if the adult:

Works 20 hours a week (or 80 hours a month), or is engaging in a variety of allowable work-related activities for the same amount of time (such as Employment and Training, WIA, etc.), or
Is pregnant or disabled, or
Lives in a home where a child under the age of 18 resides.

Resources

Households may have $2,000 in countable resources, such as bank accounts and money in certain retirement accounts. Households may have $3,000 if at least one person is age 60 or older or disabled. Certain resources are not counted, such as homes, buildings, and land. The resources of people who receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or Work First payments or services are not countable.