Should we put limits on welfare

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you are a neurologist from Berkley...you have no right to complain about unemployment.

Skilled workers have lots of opportunities in today's world, especially with an aging workforce.

You not getting a job is like an oil company that cannot make money

Can you please learn to READ. I never said i had an MD or that i was a neurologist (Neurology requires an MD). I said i had a phd in NEUROSCIENCE. Since a stupid kid like you does not know; neurology works with BROKEN CNSs (thats central nervous systems), Neuroscientists try to figure out how they work--intact. Basic science versus clinical practice. Get it?

 

[Stunt]

Homercles337...
You are not entitled to anything. You went to school to make yourself more attractive when finding a job, that was your perception and your choice. The government did not force you to invest that money or go to do post-secondary for that matter.

But judging from your attitude and social skills, I probably wouldn't give you a job either.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: conjur
Stunt's just trolling. He's trying to push my buttons via PMs and in this thread and in my thread on the body armor. He thinks he's getting under my skin but he's not. He's just exposing himself for the troll he is.

That post sounds like I'm getting under your skin

I just felt the need to point out your obvious flaws in reasoning and factual evidence.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Can you please learn to READ. I never said i had an MD or that i was a neurologist (Neurology requires an MD). I said i had a phd in NEUROSCIENCE. Since a stupid kid like you does not know; neurology works with BROKEN CNSs (thats central nervous systems), Neuroscientists try to figure out how they work--intact. Basic science versus clinical practice. Get it?

I honestly don't care what your specialization is...you took the courses because you thought it would help you get a job and it interests you.

Should the history majors I went to school with be bitching about their poor employment opportunities? Or are you better than them?

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Homercles337...
You are not entitled to anything. You went to school to make yourself more attractive when finding a job, that was your perception and your choice. The government did not force you to invest that money or go to do post-secondary for that matter.

But judging from your attitude and social skills, I probably wouldn't give you a job either.

Please provide the quote where i said that i was "entitled" to something. Im anecdotal evidence that conservatives such as yourself are wrong. Ship jobs/research offshore and then tell those out of work to "get educated." Hmm, im educated and dont want to move to India or China (there are TONS of jobs in my area there ya know?), but cant find work in the states. Im sure you will lock on to the "anecdotal" nature of this post, but youre just looking for evidence that supports your myopic view of economics/the world/canaDUH/or whatever. ah heck off, im done with you.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: Stunt
If you are a neurologist from Berkley...you have no right to complain about unemployment.

Skilled workers have lots of opportunities in today's world, especially with an aging workforce.

You not getting a job is like an oil company that cannot make money

Can you please learn to READ. I never said i had an MD or that i was a neurologist (Neurology requires an MD). I said i had a phd in NEUROSCIENCE. Since a stupid kid like you does not know; neurology works with BROKEN CNSs (thats central nervous systems), Neuroscientists try to figure out how they work--intact. Basic science versus clinical practice. Get it?

Honestly, perhaps you need to act like you have the education level you have. Using terms such as "stupid kid" is pretty immature. You jumped into a field that is pure R&D, with no high demand yet. I am working towards nano-engineering, as well as a few friends of mine who are working towrdsa R&D sectors. R&D is a risk on it's own, hit or miss. Also, incase you didn't know, the age old saying, those who can't teach. I know myself and several friend who will either be working in R&D or teaching, but for you to act as imature as you are here, with a doctorate might be the underlying problem as to why you have no job. On another point, have you spent any amount of time with people who are on welfare? The majority are not educated, or motivated, so my point still stands. No system is perfect, you go for the system that reaches the majority of your target audience, and the majority of the target audience of my plan are uneducated, unmotivated individuals.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: techs
We do currently have limits on welfare. You can get it for, I believe, up to a total of 5 years in your lifetime. Plus there is already a work requirement.
To limit it to 8 weeks is a terrible idea. During economic downturns there are people who would literally become homeless. And what would we do with those people? Shelter them at great expense or send around the morgue truck every night in winter in the northern parts of the country?
FYI there are millions of these people.
So eliminating welfare would probably result in at least tens of thousands of deaths.
Where is your humanity?

This is a fine example of pure emotivist rhetoric.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
No, we should simply eliminate welfare. Period.

I have a better idea. Let's just find out who's not an upstanding citizen, and shoot them. We'll include the weak, the sick, the old, the homosexual, the mentally retarded... there are also ethnic groups who do not contribute to society, and should be eliminated. Right?

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Honestly, perhaps you need to act like you have the education level you have. Using terms such as "stupid kid" is pretty immature. You jumped into a field that is pure R&D, with no high demand yet. I am working towards nano-engineering, as well as a few friends of mine who are working towrdsa R&D sectors. R&D is a risk on it's own, hit or miss. Also, incase you didn't know, the age old saying, those who can't teach. I know myself and several friend who will either be working in R&D or teaching, but for you to act as imature as you are here, with a doctorate might be the underlying problem as to why you have no job. On another point, have you spent any amount of time with people who are on welfare? The majority are not educated, or motivated, so my point still stands. No system is perfect, you go for the system that reaches the majority of your target audience, and the majority of the target audience of my plan are uneducated, unmotivated individuals.

Look, i went to grad school with the intent of being an academic. Would you consider that a risky venture? Tons of colleges, universities, being built, faculty aging, shoot when i was at berkeley thats all my cohort talked about. On a side note, Im sure you know that there are forces out there set on regulating/controlling/destroying nanotech research, no? Safety reasons--bs IMHO. Also, a bachelors is nothing. Try spending 5 years on a phd after 4 at TOP Unis and discovering that there are more than 70 applicants with equal skills/education. Am i bitter? Yes. Am i angry? Yes. I have been looking for work for more than 7 months (this time--the 4 previous times have not been as long). I apply for posts that only require a BS. Posts that pay less than i made as a postdoc (but more than unemployed). I have turned my back on an academic post--FYI.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: RichardE
Honestly, perhaps you need to act like you have the education level you have. Using terms such as "stupid kid" is pretty immature. You jumped into a field that is pure R&D, with no high demand yet. I am working towards nano-engineering, as well as a few friends of mine who are working towrdsa R&D sectors. R&D is a risk on it's own, hit or miss. Also, incase you didn't know, the age old saying, those who can't teach. I know myself and several friend who will either be working in R&D or teaching, but for you to act as imature as you are here, with a doctorate might be the underlying problem as to why you have no job. On another point, have you spent any amount of time with people who are on welfare? The majority are not educated, or motivated, so my point still stands. No system is perfect, you go for the system that reaches the majority of your target audience, and the majority of the target audience of my plan are uneducated, unmotivated individuals.

Look, i went to grad school with the intent of being an academic. Would you consider that a risky venture? Tons of colleges, universities, being built, faculty aging, shoot when i was at berkeley thats all my cohort talked about. On a side note, Im sure you know that there are forces out there set on regulating/controlling/destroying nanotech research, no? Safety reasons--bs IMHO. Also, a bachelors is nothing. Try spending 5 years on a phd after 4 at TOP Unis and discovering that there are more than 70 applicants with equal skills/education. Am i bitter? Yes. Am i angry? Yes. I have been looking for work for more than 7 months (this time--the 4 previous times have not been as long). I apply for posts that only require a BS. Posts that pay less than i made as a postdoc (but more than unemployed). I have turned my back on an academic post--FYI.

Why turn your back on an academic post? or refuse to work overseas? Why not work on research projects overseas or teach as a way to build up a resumee/portfolio? I am going for a PhD, and more than likely will be working overseas due to regulations here. This is the same reason I am taking Asian language classes. Perhaps, as you just said, there are 70+ Applicants with the same skills/education, so better them, or lower your standards, or look farther abroad for jobs/research projects. If you have a tunnel and very narrow view of what you expect and will settle for, than you will get exactly what you have, a hard time finding a job.

Who will find gold faster? the one who sits in one spot, looking at one pile of mud, sifting and sifting, or the one who explores the entire river, looking for all the gold he can?

 

[Stunt]

Nice of you to say a "bachelors is nothing"; I have a bachelors and got a job merely 1 month out. I had an average only 5 percent higher than my classmates (decided to have a social life at uni instead) and got a job over 30% more than the average for my graduting class.

The company has offered to pay for my MBA down the road and has invested tens of thousands of dollars in training for me. If that's nothing at the age of 22, you need to get off your high horse

 

[Meuge]

Stunt, you really shouldn't be talking. But don't worry - with an attitude like that, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for you to experience joblessness firsthand.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Engineer
One year (unless handicapped). However, I feel that if you're going to school or training AND making progress, then maybe extensions could be given. Also, I feel that if you enter the workforce and maintain employment for an extended period of time (let's say a decade), then you should restore your eligibility of "assistance" if you need it again in life.

However, I feel too many people are too damn lazy to work and find ways to stay on the system. They can play all day, ride the four wheelers, pack kids around, etc. yet can't work.

People need a little help, but not a lifelong support system (again, handicapped and other exclusions may apply).

Does anyone feel that programs like EIC (Earned Income Credit) are welfare? You get more money back in tax refunds (far more) than you pay in? However, at least these people are encouraged to work. Is this a form or welfare or an incentive to work or a little of both?

Millions of working Americans have no health care insurance (or can't afford it), yet millions receive top notch care (better than private insurance in many cases) with few restrictions FREE of charge. Punished by working? Sometimes it seems, hence why so many adore the "freeness" of the programs....IMO>

Yet millions receive top notch care(better than private insurance in many cases with few restrictions FREE of charge...What are you talking about? I am familiar with the public
health facilities in two counties here in California, and in no way is it comparable to private insurance. Try six hours in a waiting room, one pharmacist for an entire hospital pharmacy, weeks wait for surgery, there is no comparison.
You right-wingers have this obsession about free-loaders on welfare. I think you can get up to a whole $300 per month-don't spend it all in one place.
Funny how we have unlimited money for military adventurism but can't afford to feed, house or care for our poorest.
Years ago, Ted Kennedy offered to eliminate welfare in return for a guaranteed right to work for Americans. Republicans wouldn't do it. I thought it was a tremendous idea, you could get all kinds of public works done, people wouldn't be waiting around for their checks, and people would not have the present financial stress when unemployed.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Dissipate
No, we should simply eliminate welfare. Period.

I have a better idea. Let's just find out who's not an upstanding citizen, and shoot them. We'll include the weak, the sick, the old, the homosexual, the mentally retarded... there are also ethnic groups who do not contribute to society, and should be eliminated. Right?

More emotivist rhetoric. This kind is even more outrageous that the original rhetoric I cited.

Text

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Meuge
Stunt, you really shouldn't be talking. But don't worry - with an attitude like that, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for you to experience joblessness firsthand.

What attitude would that be?
Agreeing with the guy that my degree means nothing?

Hah, right...
I am a fairly modest person, and I do support humane initiatives; but getting told by a PhD that I should be paying for him to live is just ridiculous.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: homercles337

Originally posted by: RichardE
Honestly, perhaps you need to act like you have the education level you have. Using terms such as "stupid kid" is pretty immature. You jumped into a field that is pure R&D, with no high demand yet. I am working towards nano-engineering, as well as a few friends of mine who are working towrdsa R&D sectors. R&D is a risk on it's own, hit or miss. Also, incase you didn't know, the age old saying, those who can't teach. I know myself and several friend who will either be working in R&D or teaching, but for you to act as imature as you are here, with a doctorate might be the underlying problem as to why you have no job. On another point, have you spent any amount of time with people who are on welfare? The majority are not educated, or motivated, so my point still stands. No system is perfect, you go for the system that reaches the majority of your target audience, and the majority of the target audience of my plan are uneducated, unmotivated individuals.

Look, i went to grad school with the intent of being an academic. Would you consider that a risky venture? Tons of colleges, universities, being built, faculty aging, shoot when i was at berkeley thats all my cohort talked about. On a side note, Im sure you know that there are forces out there set on regulating/controlling/destroying nanotech research, no? Safety reasons--bs IMHO. Also, a bachelors is nothing. Try spending 5 years on a phd after 4 at TOP Unis and discovering that there are more than 70 applicants with equal skills/education. Am i bitter? Yes. Am i angry? Yes. I have been looking for work for more than 7 months (this time--the 4 previous times have not been as long). I apply for posts that only require a BS. Posts that pay less than i made as a postdoc (but more than unemployed). I have turned my back on an academic post--FYI.

Why turn your back on an academic post? or refuse to work overseas? Why not work on research projects overseas or teach as a way to build up a resumee/portfolio? I am going for a PhD, and more than likely will be working overseas due to regulations here. This is the same reason I am taking Asian language classes. Perhaps, as you just said, there are 70+ Applicants with the same skills/education, so better them, or lower your standards, or look farther abroad for jobs/research projects. If you have a tunnel and very narrow view of what you expect and will settle for, than you will get exactly what you have, a hard time finding a job.

Who will find gold faster? the one who sits in one spot, looking at one pile of mud, sifting and sifting, or the one who explores the entire river, looking for all the gold he can?

What regulations are those? If you don't mind my asking.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Engineer
One year (unless handicapped). However, I feel that if you're going to school or training AND making progress, then maybe extensions could be given. Also, I feel that if you enter the workforce and maintain employment for an extended period of time (let's say a decade), then you should restore your eligibility of "assistance" if you need it again in life.

However, I feel too many people are too damn lazy to work and find ways to stay on the system. They can play all day, ride the four wheelers, pack kids around, etc. yet can't work.

People need a little help, but not a lifelong support system (again, handicapped and other exclusions may apply).

Does anyone feel that programs like EIC (Earned Income Credit) are welfare? You get more money back in tax refunds (far more) than you pay in? However, at least these people are encouraged to work. Is this a form or welfare or an incentive to work or a little of both?

Millions of working Americans have no health care insurance (or can't afford it), yet millions receive top notch care (better than private insurance in many cases) with few restrictions FREE of charge. Punished by working? Sometimes it seems, hence why so many adore the "freeness" of the programs....IMO>

Yet millions receive top notch care(better than private insurance in many cases with few restrictions FREE of charge...What are you talking about? I am familiar with the public
health facilities in two counties here in California, and in no way is it comparable to private insurance. Try six hours in a waiting room, one pharmacist for an entire hospital pharmacy, weeks wait for surgery, there is no comparison.
You right-wingers have this obsession about free-loaders on welfare. I think you can get up to a whole $300 per month-don't spend it all in one place.
Funny how we have unlimited money for military adventurism but can't afford to feed, house or care for our poorest.
Years ago, Ted Kennedy offered to eliminate welfare in return for a guaranteed right to work for Americans. Republicans wouldn't do it. I thought it was a tremendous idea, you could get all kinds of public works done, people wouldn't be waiting around for their checks, and people would not have the present financial stress when unemployed.

Right winger? LOL! :laugh:

Maybe in California, but you haven't visited the Robert Byrd capital WV (and it's carry-over effect) to Eastern Kentucky, now have you? Full teeth braces. Emergency room treatment and care 24 hours a day at no cost. No wonder so many here just run to the ER and forget the regular doctors. Maybe I was being overly simplistic and assuming that the nation followed suit...maybe they don't. However, there are counties in WVa that have 60% of the residents on some sort of government assistance (Thanks to the powerful Byrd). I've witnessed what I have said above first hand and YMMV around the country. Still doesn't make what I said any less true.


You think I want more military spending? :laugh: While I think that the US military should have a technological advantage, I, in no way, like the wasteful spending done by the military.

Your right wing comment cracks me up! :laugh:

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
Stunt, you really shouldn't be talking. But don't worry - with an attitude like that, I am sure there will be plenty of opportunities for you to experience joblessness firsthand.

What attitude would that be?
Agreeing with the guy that my degree means nothing?

Hah, right...
I am a fairly modest person, and I do support humane initiatives; but getting told by a PhD that I should be paying for him to live is just ridiculous.

You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

If you pay taxes you are.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

If you pay taxes you are.

Not in this country, he's not!

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

If you pay taxes you are.

If I'm in Canada I'm not.
But no worries, lots of unemployed welfare suckers up here

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

If you pay taxes you are.

If I'm in Canada I'm not.
But no worries, lots of unemployed welfare suckers up here

Who is the sucker though...really?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: Meuge
You're paying for me to live... enjoy.

Pretty sure I'm not

If you pay taxes you are.

If I'm in Canada I'm not.
But no worries, lots of unemployed welfare suckers up here

Who is the sucker though...really?

Probably me for having to pay for it...

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Who will find gold faster? the one who sits in one spot, looking at one pile of mud, sifting and sifting, or the one who explores the entire river, looking for all the gold he can?

To answer your quote section that i snipped: My pedigree, pubs, and refs are all top notch. Trust me. Im turning my back on academics because i have been through the cycle 3 times with no success. I applied for an NRSA and scored ~400. I have done TWO postdocs that both ended prematurely. If you want to go into academics GOOD LUCK! Honestly.

Now, for your quote above. For the last 7+ months i have been looking for everything from image processing/computer vision R&D (phd only to entry level BS), to web development. The in between is everything from usability, scientific programming, consultation, health care stats, R&D healthcare, and even some "marketing" crap. Does this sound like im "sifting one spot?"