Should the US end the practice of giving automatic citizenship to infants...

[Orignal Earl]

Do you want me to connect the dots for you?

Pregnant Chinese spotted in park...different ones appear from time to time...China gets nuke codes from Trump..SSSnail arrested for pervin in park

 

[Jhhnn]

Trashy reply that ignores the facts. Pretty much like Trump. Congrats.

It's a trashy topic designed to rile up the nativists. Speculating that there may be tens of thousands of Chinese women coming here to give birth every year just adds fuel to the fire.

"Up to X number" of whatever is a standard propaganda ploy.

Jhhnn, you seem hell bent on others providing you numbers that can be easily Google'd in a few seconds. Why?

It's not a secret, it's all over the news.

Look at the recent Chinese military "technologies", look familiar? Do you want me to connect the dots for you?

Assertions of numerical fact must be based on authoritative sources, not thin air. The party making such assertions has the obligation to substantiate their claims. Short of that, such claims are bullshit that may or may not be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

That principle has been with us since ancient times.

 

[theeedude]

You were the first person to utter the phrase 'security clearance' in this thread.

I spoke of the broader issue of loyalty to country. If I had been born in Germany to two US citizen parents who immediately moved back to the United States after birth, do you really think I'd consider myself a German above everything else?

Your argument against giving citizenship to newborns is they may grow up, come back, and steal some technology for China.
Why does it matter whether you consider yourself German or not? I don't think Germany would complain if you grew up and got educated in the US and then moved to Germany.

 

[werepossum]

I find the whole anchor baby thing abusive and it should be done away with. It is abused by both the Chinese and Mexican people. What is being done was not the original intent of the amendment.

Agreed, but the wording is very clear. I really would not care to start precedence that we should interpret what the Constitution meant at the time except where the meaning is not clear. It's already far too difficult to get politicians to honor the clear wording.

And using the word "nativist" is as big an indication of stupidity as is using "cisgender".

 

[Jhhnn]

Agreed, but the wording is very clear. I really would not care to start precedence that we should interpret what the Constitution meant at the time except where the meaning is not clear. It's already far too difficult to get politicians to honor the clear wording.

And using the word "nativist" is as big an indication of stupidity as is using "cisgender".

What term would you prefer?

 

[theeedude]

Nativist fits the bill when describing the GOP.

Nativism - the policy of protecting the interests of native-born or established inhabitants against those of immigrants.

 

[werepossum]

What term would you prefer?

Patriot. Or simply "someone with common sense".

When people begin to object that a nation's laws favor citizens of that nation, we've entered the idiocracy.

 

[openwheel]

Ridiculous.

This only works if we retroactive the policy. Those whose parents without Citizenship? You are no longer allowed to vote until you pay up and go through the naturalization process.

Plain ridiculous, no wonder we have Donald Trump as a Presidential candidate. Too many morons in this country.

 

[Blue_Max]

I'm pretty open minded about a lot of things, but even people just flying in from China and paying to have their babies here in the US, even paying their bills with a midwife so they get automatic citizenship on the birth certificate, and flying back afterwards is an issue.

It is another issue along those lines that occurs and has been a business for awhile.

This perfectly sums it up. The whole automatic citizenship for being born somewhere has been abused terribly for decades. We're also seeing second & third generation immigrants turning out to hate and be very much against the country they live in.

...of course, how do you vet people for citizenship? Have everyone just swear in? Perform a minimum term of civil service? Military service? Polygraph & psychiatric tests??

How do you know someone is going to turn against your country without mindreading or thought control?

No easy answers, but I don't think "automatic yes" is the answer and should be upgraded to at least some kind of basic test of country + language knowledge plus an adult-age legal vow to uphold the laws of their country.

 

[Jhhnn]

Patriot. Or simply "someone with common sense".

When people begin to object that a nation's laws favor citizens of that nation, we've entered the idiocracy.

Yeh, just like it made so much sense all the times before, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativism_(politics)

 

[Jaskalas]

All the times before, when our population was half or less of what it is today.
Does anyone really want to see it double again?

You only need it to fuel ponzi schemes, but like Bernie Madoff eventually you do run out of capital, or in this case resources. Infinite growth is a plan for the small minded.

 

[Bitek]

Sure let's go ahead and mess with the 14A. While we are at it lets "clarify" a lot of this militia nonsense with 2A as well.

I know all the patriots are concerned about preventing 30,000 deaths a year. Surely they will treat this problem with at least as proportional as a response as the scourge of the anchor babies plaguing this country. Right?

In fact, let's get out the red pen and have a big markup of the Constitution, just as the originalists intended.

 

[agent00f]

That's what remains to be seen. I don't think we will know any time soon. I think most Chinese parents just give birth in the US to avoid child-bearing limits in the PRC and maybe they want to have more opportunities for their children. However, we also can't deny that the Chinese may overtake us as a global power in the next 20 years and they are very interested in our military and nuclear technology and expanding their influence in the world (South China Sea, lately). With one billion people versus our 300 million people, they certainly have an advantage in terms of numbers if they can catch up in technology.

The question is: Where will the loyalty of these children lie? Many will probably be with the PRC and many will probably be with the USA. Distinguishing between the two will be challenging.

They're doing this in large part due to rather common merica-fetish, which is if anything anti-patriotic. Which is why that movie about this with Tang Wei in it grossed rather well.

I've seen both sides of these anchor-baby services. I don't know about the numbers (and suspect neither do you), but it's all rich people looking for that anchor in the west. It's probably much lower than for mexicans, which is actually why it's a major conservative issue; they hate the chinese somewhat less anyway.

 

[agent00f]

What you really mean to say is that we need immigrants to push down salaries for people like me who got a master's in electrical engineering. The corporate elites decimated the working class, now it is on to the professional classes. By the time they are done even highly skilled engineers will be paid a non-liveable wage. The corporate leaders have given away manufacturing, it will be interesting to see what happens when they give away engineering. Keep your eyes open, eventually all the patents will be coming from Asia. American corporations don't value engineering all that much. Those are the true crown jewels of any country, without those two, a country is not viable in the long run.

America still does its military engineering in-house and a big stick will get you far in life.

Jhhnn, you seem hell bent on others providing you numbers that can be easily Google'd in a few seconds. Why?

It's not a secret, it's all over the news.

Look at the recent Chinese military "technologies", look familiar? Do you want me to connect the dots for you?

Do you seriously believe the security guys handling top secret tech are even dumber than you are?

 

[HumblePie]

When it comes to "anchor" babies most other countries around the world do not allow them. The US is pretty unique when it comes to that. On top of that, the US didn't always allow "anchor" babies either. It was introduced in 1868 with the 14th amendment. Still it would take a change to a Constitutional amendment which hasn't happened in a very long time. Considering the current polarized political atmosphere I highly doubt any such change, even if it has its merits, will occur.

 

[SSSnail]

It's a trashy topic designed to rile up the nativists. Speculating that there may be tens of thousands of Chinese women coming here to give birth every year just adds fuel to the fire.

"Up to X number" of whatever is a standard propaganda ploy.


Assertions of numerical fact must be based on authoritative sources, not thin air. The party making such assertions has the obligation to substantiate their claims. Short of that, such claims are bullshit that may or may not be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

That principle has been with us since ancient times.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=birthing+tourism+bust

 

[agent00f]

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=birthing+tourism+bust

You're just getting confused here. Nobody is arguing these services can't possibly exist. Perhaps the problem stems from being terrible at math, and confusing >0 with tens of thousands.

You do seem to be confused a lot though, might want to look into that because I can't imagine it's great for the rest of IRL.

 

[SSSnail]

You're just getting confused here. Nobody is arguing these services can't possibly exist. Perhaps the problem stems from being terrible at math, and confusing >0 with tens of thousands.

You do seem to be confused a lot though, might want to look into that because I can't imagine it's great for the rest of IRL.

"No reliable data exists on the number of Chinese births in the U.S, but estimates by industry publications projected a total of 60,000 for 2014, a sixfold increase over 2012. Awareness of the trend skyrocketed in China in 2013 when the popular romantic comedy “Finding Mr. Right” portrayed a Chinese woman, the mistress of a wealthy businessman, sneaking into Seattle on a tourist visa in order to buy Gucci bags and have an American child."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tourism_n_7187180.html

You seem to remain pretty stupid, despite your insistence on using flowery words to cover up your stupidity. Drop the act.

And what is it about you telling people to Google? Hey dipshit, google for the answer.

 

[agent00f]

"No reliable data exists on the number of Chinese births in the U.S, but estimates by industry publications projected a total of 60,000 for 2014, a sixfold increase over 2012. Awareness of the trend skyrocketed in China in 2013 when the popular romantic comedy “Finding Mr. Right” portrayed a Chinese woman, the mistress of a wealthy businessman, sneaking into Seattle on a tourist visa in order to buy Gucci bags and have an American child."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/01/china-us-birth-tourism_n_7187180.html

You seem to remain pretty stupid, despite your insistence on using flowery words to cover up your stupidity. Drop the act.

And what is it about you telling people to Google? Hey dipshit, google for the answer.

In the first result for your link, it says unnamed study claims some tens of thousand total for all births on travel visas, presumably incl mexico/etc. I suspect this number wasn't convenient enough so you kept reading until you got one that was.

Places like Politifact looked into these sorts of claims: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../illegal-immigrants-anchor-babies-birthright/

That chinese doc is written by the folks promoting their illegal business, ie "everybody's doing it", which is rather important for an endeavor with some risk as your terms suggest. Keep in mind you're arguing with someone actually familiar with some of these services, and you're someone unfamiliar with just about everything.

The kind of people with this kind of money can generally afford to send their kids abroad for school or whatever anyway. So that leaves a particular kind of business niche, where the clients have other future contingencies in mind to compensate for the months of risk they're taking.

 

[SSSnail]

Your stupidity knows no bound, and your assumptions are even worse... I don't know how that's even possible.

Have you ever in your life gave a succinct, relevant answer?

 

[agent00f]

Keep in mind just because you can't understand an answer it doesn't say much about the answer. BTW, this isn't just you but the particularly stupid in general, because those with marginal intelligence might ask about the parts they're confused about.

 

[1prophet]

That's old nationalistic mentality.
We already have organizations and practices in place to decide who gets what security clearance. Other than that, I don't really care where their loyalty lies.
We will also need immigrants to do high paying tech jobs Americans won't do.

Stop with corporate globalist profit only matters bullshit that has brainwashed you and many others to believe that nationalism doesn't matter.

Like John f Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

The truth is you need immigrants to do tech jobs that Americans won't do for the lower pay and benefits that immigrants will because you have no sense of country but only what's good for your own pocketbook even at the expense of everything and everyone else.

 

[Vic]

The 14th amendment isn't going to be repealed. Get over it.

 

[Vic]

Stop with corporate globalist profit only matters bullshit that has brainwashed you and many others to believe that nationalism doesn't matter.

Like John f Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country"

The truth is you need immigrants to do tech jobs that Americans won't do for the lower pay and benefits that immigrants will because you have no sense of country but only what's good for your own pocketbook even at the expense of everything and everyone else.

My love of country compels me to want the best and brightest people to be my countrymen.
Because it's not bullshit that America is competing in a global marketplace. The more talent and brains that we can pilfer from other countries, the better. Protectionist policies are no different than welfare, except they're even more harmful.

 

[glenn1]

The logical thing would be at least one parent must be a citizen of the US to have offspring that get automatic citizenship.

I don't particularly care if the child gets citizenship, but then again I have no problem deporting his parents asses as soon as the kid is out of the birth canal either. The idea that we "shouldn't separate children from their parents" is both naive and bad policy.