Should the US end the practice of giving automatic citizenship to infants...

[Balt]

It's your assertion & your responsibility to back it up, not mine. Until you do the claim is suspect, to say the least.

Eh, that's fine. Believe what you want. The birth centers established for Chinese citizens in California have been covered in the media, however, for those who actually care:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-birth-tourism-schemes-raids-20150303-story.html

If you think birth tourism is just catered for a few hundred people every year, then you are pretty naive. Frankly I can't and won't reveal more than what has been covered in the public arena.

 

[theeedude]

Have we really been hurt by this practice? I mean even people from China who come here and give birth, if their citizen kids come back when they grow up, is that a bad thing? China would have paid for their education, and we will enjoy the fruits of their productivity.

 

[Balt]

Have we really been hurt by this practice? I mean even people from China who come here and give birth, if their citizen kids come back when they grow up, is that a bad thing? China would have paid for their education, and we will enjoy the fruits of their productivity.

That's what remains to be seen. I don't think we will know any time soon. I think most Chinese parents just give birth in the US to avoid child-bearing limits in the PRC and maybe they want to have more opportunities for their children. However, we also can't deny that the Chinese may overtake us as a global power in the next 20 years and they are very interested in our military and nuclear technology and expanding their influence in the world (South China Sea, lately). With one billion people versus our 300 million people, they certainly have an advantage in terms of numbers if they can catch up in technology.

The question is: Where will the loyalty of these children lie? Many will probably be with the PRC and many will probably be with the USA. Distinguishing between the two will be challenging.

 

[Jhhnn]

Eh, that's fine. Believe what you want. The birth centers established for Chinese citizens in California have been covered in the media, however, for those who actually care:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-birth-tourism-schemes-raids-20150303-story.html

If you think birth tourism is just catered for a few hundred people every year, then you are pretty naive. Frankly I can't and won't reveal more than what has been covered in the public arena.

Congratulations. You've shown that 400 mothers associated with the service gave birth in an Orange county hospital since 2013. That's it. You've haven't shown the harm in the practice, either.

 

[theeedude]

That's what remains to be seen. I don't think we will know any time soon. I think most Chinese parents just give birth in the US to avoid child-bearing limits in the PRC and maybe they want to have more opportunities for their children. However, we also can't deny that the Chinese may overtake us as a global power in the next 20 years and they are very interested in our military and nuclear technology and expanding their influence in the world (South China Sea, lately). With one billion people versus our 300 million people, they certainly have an advantage in terms of numbers if they can catch up in technology.

The question is: Where will the loyalty of these children lie? Many will probably be with the PRC and many will probably be with the USA. Distinguishing between the two will be challenging.

That's old nationalistic mentality.
We already have organizations and practices in place to decide who gets what security clearance. Other than that, I don't really care where their loyalty lies.
We will also need immigrants to do high paying tech jobs Americans won't do.

 

[Balt]

Congratulations. You've shown that 400 mothers associated with the service gave birth in an Orange county hospital since 2013. That's it. You've haven't shown the harm in the practice, either.

If you had been paying attention and actually read my previous posts, I never claimed there was harm in the practice. Meanwhile, you have denied that it was a widespread practice at all, and if you think the exposé in the LA Times was the limit of birth tourism then you are very naive.

So yes, it happens on a widespread scale. And for the Nth time, whether or not you think it is a problem depends on your individual perspective.

 

[Balt]

That's old nationalistic mentality.
We already have organizations and practices in place to decide who gets what security clearance. Other than that, I don't really care where their loyalty lies.
We will also need immigrants to do high paying tech jobs Americans won't do.

You place far too much faith in the security clearance process for sensitive government positions. But it is not my place to convince you of otherwise.

 

[pcgeek11]

I find the whole anchor baby thing abusive and it should be done away with. It is abused by both the Chinese and Mexican people. What is being done was not the original intent of the amendment.

 

[flexy]

I'm a pretty progressive guy and I say Trump has brought up a valid subject that I'm open to discussion on.

I don't think this is a "valid subject".
In fact I think it's BULL.SHIT.

It's BULL.SHIT. unless you, or Trump or whoever produces actual numbers of "Chinese flying here to give birth" or Latinos or whoever (who are not citizens) give birth in the US with this intention. I have reason to believe that the actual cases where this is happening are relatively insignificant, at least so insignificant in numbers it doesn't need new laws.

 

[flexy]

I find the whole anchor baby thing abusive and it should be done away with. It is abused by both the Chinese and Mexican people.

Sources and real numbers please. I want to know the actual numbers of those "anchor babies" born in the US.

 

[pcgeek11]

Sources and real numbers please. I want to know the actual numbers of those "anchor babies" born in the US.

Look it up for yourself then if you are so curious.

I don't give a fuck if it is one, that is one too many.
It is abused by a lot more than one I'd wager and the loophole should be closed.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you had been paying attention and actually read my previous posts, I never claimed there was harm in the practice. Meanwhile, you have denied that it was a widespread practice at all, and if you think the exposé in the LA Times was the limit of birth tourism then you are very naive.

So yes, it happens on a widespread scale. And for the Nth time, whether or not you think it is a problem depends on your individual perspective.

So you've been playing it up to serve what end other than frothing up the nativists?

 

[Svnla]

Sources and real numbers please. I want to know the actual numbers of those "anchor babies" born in the US.

This was from 2010 and it was about 60,000 to 65,000 just from Texas alone, let me see if I can find more current info.

"Parkland Memorial Hospital delivers more of those babies than any other hospital in the state. Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were noncitizens, about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100807-Across-Texas-60-000-babies-3859.ece

This is from 2015 report with 360,000 in 2007 and 295,000 in 2013.

"The number of children born to immigrants who are in this country illegally has declined steadily in recent years, according to data from the Pew Research Center, as the undocumented population here has leveled off. After peaking at 360,000 in 2007, such births fell to 295,000 in 2013, the center said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...d7a2f0-570d-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html

 

[theeedude]

You place far too much faith in the security clearance process for sensitive government positions. But it is not my place to convince you of otherwise.

Should we ban guns too, since we can't trust background check process?

 

[theeedude]

I find the whole anchor baby thing abusive and it should be done away with. It is abused by both the Chinese and Mexican people. What is being done was not the original intent of the amendment.

We have courts that decide this, not you.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So you've been playing it up to serve what end other than frothing up the nativists?

Jeez, control that jerking knee. He's simply been providing information.

 

[Balt]

So you've been playing it up to serve what end other than frothing up the nativists?

Trashy reply that ignores the facts. Pretty much like Trump. Congrats.

 

[Balt]

Should we ban guns too, since we can't trust background check process?

You're straying waaaaay off topic. Shall we also talk about the vetting process for refugees who can't possible be vetted b/c they have no native government left to tell us whether they were previously convicted of crimes?

For the record, I'm very much in favor of background checks for all firearm purchases, regardless of where they bought them.

 

[theeedude]

You are straying way off topic too. We are talking about newborns, you are talking about security clearances.

 

[compuwiz1]

This was from 2010 and it was about 60,000 to 65,000 just from Texas alone, let me see if I can find more current info.

"Parkland Memorial Hospital delivers more of those babies than any other hospital in the state. Last year at Parkland, 11,071 babies were born to women who were noncitizens, about 74 percent of total deliveries. Most of these women are believed to be in the country illegally."

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20100807-Across-Texas-60-000-babies-3859.ece

This is from 2015 report with 360,000 in 2007 and 295,000 in 2013.

"The number of children born to immigrants who are in this country illegally has declined steadily in recent years, according to data from the Pew Research Center, as the undocumented population here has leveled off. After peaking at 360,000 in 2007, such births fell to 295,000 in 2013, the center said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...d7a2f0-570d-11e5-b8c9-944725fcd3b9_story.html

How much tax payer money and hospital write off does that represent? You know they didn't come over with insurance and they didn't pay for shit, at least not the ones from Mexico.

 

[Balt]

You are straying way off topic too. We are talking about newborns, you are talking about security clearances.

You were the first person to utter the phrase 'security clearance' in this thread.

I spoke of the broader issue of loyalty to country. If I had been born in Germany to two US citizen parents who immediately moved back to the United States after birth, do you really think I'd consider myself a German above everything else?

 

[OutHouse]

Should the US end the practice of giving automatic citizenship to infants...

yes.

 

[bshole]

That's old nationalistic mentality.
We already have organizations and practices in place to decide who gets what security clearance. Other than that, I don't really care where their loyalty lies.
We will also need immigrants to do high paying tech jobs Americans won't do.

What you really mean to say is that we need immigrants to push down salaries for people like me who got a master's in electrical engineering. The corporate elites decimated the working class, now it is on to the professional classes. By the time they are done even highly skilled engineers will be paid a non-liveable wage. The corporate leaders have given away manufacturing, it will be interesting to see what happens when they give away engineering. Keep your eyes open, eventually all the patents will be coming from Asia. American corporations don't value engineering all that much. Those are the true crown jewels of any country, without those two, a country is not viable in the long run.

Computer-related occupations are disproportionately affected by both the use of temporary guest workers, including those on H-1B and L-1 visas and Optional Practical Training, and offshoring of jobs. In 2012, the United States Customs and Immigration Service approved employer hiring of 154,869 temporary foreign workers on H-1B visas in computer-related occupations, representing 61 percent of all granted H-1B visas.[5] Temporary guest workers may represent a small percentage of the whole workforce, but non-U.S. citizens represent 12.8 percent of the U.S. computer workforce (and 16.5 percent of computer systems analysts and 22.5 percent of software developers).[6] The over 500,000 non-U.S. citizens working in computer-related occupations in the U.S. have fewer rights in the work place and have diminished bargaining power with employers.

Available data make it difficult to assess the exact number of computer professional’s jobs lost to offshoring (U.S. jobs moved out of the country) each year, however experts identify occupations in the computer field as extremely vulnerable to offshoring, particularly as computing and networking technology becomes more widely available and inexpensive.[7] The Congressional Research Service report on offshoring indicates that as lower-wage countries such as India and China graduate large numbers of well-educated workers, often exceeding “the immediate needs of their local economies,” they become attractive markets for offshoring.[8]

 

[SSSnail]

Jhhnn, you seem hell bent on others providing you numbers that can be easily Google'd in a few seconds. Why?

It's not a secret, it's all over the news.

Look at the recent Chinese military "technologies", look familiar? Do you want me to connect the dots for you?

 

[Zaap]

The op is a moron. The 14th amendment guarantees birthright citizenship.

The op must hate the constitution.

I love this "argument". Citing the 14th amendment (that is the 14th time the constitution WAS CHANGED) is somehow an iron clad argument against the constitution being... amended!

Really now? *Amendments* (no less than 27 of them) disprove the possibility of amending something. Gotcha!

How 'bout that 18th Amendment there, sport? Had a drink recently?


Fun fact: Nebraska ratified the 27th amendment THIS YEAR. Who even noticed?

If there was the political will to repeal the 14th Amendment, it could be done. It's not a huge problem now, but eventually I predict it will be done- it's simply outdated.

It was never intended to be abused to create anchor babies. It was a compromise to address the failings of the 13th amendment and the question of slaves and their offspring being citizens of the US. The issue it was meant to address no longer exists, and eventually it will probably be changed.

The logical thing would be at least one parent must be a citizen of the US to have offspring that get automatic citizenship.