Should the US commit forces to directly combat Russia in Ukraine?

[skyking]

Short of using a purpose-built bunker buster, shelling a containment building is not going to cause a problem with the core. They're designed to take a whole lot more abuse. It is as you pointed out the peripherals and cooling systems that must be maintained even after a reactor is shut down.

 

[cytg111]

The obvious question all this amounts to is of course; how to denuclearize Russia?

 

[skyking]

Aliens

 

[GodisanAtheist]

The obvious question all this amounts to is of course; how to denuclearize Russia?

- Well if we can just have the crew of the Enterprise have one of their time travel mishaps we might be able to get our hands on a transporter. Just beam the warheads out of the nukes. Everyone keeps thinking MAD is in effect so we keep the large scale ground warfare to a minimum while simultaneously eliminating the actual threat of human extinction (via nukes, anyway).

Part of me wonders, seeing the general readiness of the Russian armed forces in this conflict that if a MAD order was given, would we basically see half of Russia's Nuclear Command think its a joke?

Then half of those that don't fail to launch their warheads because they were never trained how?

Then half of those that were trained how seeing their missiles fail to launch due to mechanical failures due to years of neglect?

Then half of those that actually do launch fall out of the sky due to insufficient fuel or guidance systems malfunctions?

Then half that actually reach their targets reach the wrong targets in the middle of nowhere?

Then the half that actually reach the right target fail to detonate?

Then half of what actually detonates never actually hit a critical mass and just act like a high powered standard bomb?

Then the half that actually achieve fission actually nuke something.

In the end a full scale Russian launch might end up wiping Peoria off the map or something.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

In the end a full scale Russian launch might end up wiping Peoria off the map or something.

One property in southeast Florida?

 

[cytg111]

No fly zone over Ukraine now.
Or at least provide the planes(EU) so Ukraine can control their own sky.
If US is not in it, it isnt NATO. Fact. Roll now.

Disagree and you’re a cowardly little bitch. It is what it is. History will judge your sorry ass.

 

[pmv]

No fly zone over Ukraine now.
Or at least provide the planes(EU) so Ukraine can control their own sky.
If US is not in it, it isnt NATO. Fact. Roll now.

Disagree and you’re a cowardly little bitch. It is what it is. History will judge your sorry ass.

History will judge wrongly, as it always does.

 

[cytg111]

History will judge wrongly, as it always does.

Wtf is that supposed to mean? Whats the value in that statement? Break it down for me… cause all I am getting is “we cant know anything anyway so why bother getting to know stuff”… besides that its an obvious oxymoron.

 

[pmv]

Wtf is that supposed to mean? Whats the value in that statement? Break it down for me… cause all I am getting is “we cant know anything anyway so why bother getting to know stuff”… besides that its an obvious oxymoron.

Well, it's an alternative to just saying you are talking rubbish. Offering up millions of other people's lives to satisfy your emotional needs.

 

[cytg111]

Well, it's an alternative to just saying you are talking rubbish. Offering up millions of other people's lives to satisfy your emotional needs.

One pussy noted.

 

[sportage]

Ukraine is not NATO so we should only stick with our obligations to NATO countries. And getting involved with no-fly is also none of our business nor in our interest. Lets just hope that Putin is satisfied with Ukraine once he has taken Ukraine, otherwise if Putin moves onto the NATO nations then it is definitely positively WW3.
And believe me, despite the media love for covering and exploiting war, and some people around here believing they would thoroughly enjoy watching on TV the US involvment in a war, I will bet that within 24 hours of American boots hitting the ground that both the media and every American including those here on AnandTech would turn from our engagement into war to "how soon can we get the hell out of this war?"
Within 24 hours, the fun of war would turn into the horrors of war. Americans suddenly living daily, hourly with real threats of nuclear war, not to mention prices here at home skyrocketing into the stratosphere. Ask yourself, are you really ready and willing to pay $25 for a gallon of gas, or $15 for a loaf of bread?

The problem with young Americans, those under 40, is that they don't really know war. They only read about WW2, and Vietnam. The only real wars most Americans have experience with was the well scripted hi-def 1080p senior Bush war in Iraq, and the middle eastern wars where Americans were never exposed to the coffins of dead American troops returning home. War was made to look pretty like an PG rated Hollywood movie.
If we get involved with a war with Russia, i.e. WW3, then that will be quite different for everyone here at home. We've never witnessed masses of Americans fleeing and escaping US cities to evade war, or the drafting of American kids into fighting a war. Not lately, that is. Not since Nam.
9/11 may be the closest example of the horrors of war for most Americans, but imagine 9/11 multiplied by every major American city? Then, you're getting close to imagining.

 

[Pohemi]

That's a nice ramble you have there, sportage. Again.

 

[Meghan54]

That's a nice ramble you have there, sportage. Again.

He enjoys Chicken Little-ing.

 

[Mai72]

I say LETS DO THIS.

American vs Russian NUKES!

 

[Brainonska511]

No fly zone over Ukraine now.
Or at least provide the planes(EU) so Ukraine can control their own sky.
If US is not in it, it isnt NATO. Fact. Roll now.

Disagree and you’re a cowardly little bitch. It is what it is. History will judge your sorry ass.

A no fly zone being operated by third parties is asking those third parties to declare war on Russia.

What are you going to do when a Russian aircraft violates the NFZ? You're going to have to shoot it down - an act of war. And how are you going to establish air superiority for your NFZ? You're going to have to bomb Russian anti-aircraft equipment - another act of war.

 

[uclaLabrat]

A no fly zone being operated by third parties is asking those third parties to declare war on Russia.

What are you going to do when a Russian aircraft violates the NFZ? You're going to have to shoot it down - an act of war. And how are you going to establish air superiority for your NFZ? You're going to have to bomb Russian anti-aircraft equipment - another act of war.

I agree with the concerns but most would consider crippling an entire financial system to be a bigger act of war than shooting down a few planes.

I think its the thinnest of reeds to argue were not already at a de facto state of war. This is starting to mimic the start of our involvement in WWII where we economically isolated Japan and tried to mitigate their "east Asian co-prosperity spheres" which led to their lashing out at pearl harbor to neutralize the biggest threat to their imperial ambitions.

 

[HomerJS]

Recent wars have been fought when the American people didn't have to sacrifice. I think it's time now.

The US needs to organize a worldwide ban on Russian gas and oil. They would go broke within months.

An address needs to go out to the nation that we cannot allow this to happen in the world. Remember the lesson from 1939. The sacrifice will be in the increased costs of oil. Durning that address put up pictures of Russian troops, blown up buildings, refugees and dead people. This country needs to be slapped upside the head to get the point.

We also may need to open up to more drilling at least for now. Ultimately the long term goal is to transition away from fossil fuels but that is a ways off. At the same time continue the push to alternative fuel sources.

 

[Brainonska511]

I agree with the concerns but most would consider crippling an entire financial system to be a bigger act of war than shooting down a few planes.

I think its the thinnest of reeds to argue were not already at a de facto state of war. This is starting to mimic the start of our involvement in WWII where we economically isolated Japan and tried to mitigate their "east Asian co-prosperity spheres" which led to their lashing out at pearl harbor to neutralize the biggest threat to their imperial ambitions.

I agree that we are basically in a state of war. However, I don't think the general public understands that nuance nor is ready to expand the war to actually fighting Russia directly. We shouldn't break that line first by taking shots at the Russian military in Ukraine (or the border regions, which would be required to establish a proper NFZ).

 

[cytg111]

A no fly zone being operated by third parties is asking those third parties to declare war on Russia.

What are you going to do when a Russian aircraft violates the NFZ? You're going to have to shoot it down - an act of war. And how are you going to establish air superiority for your NFZ? You're going to have to bomb Russian anti-aircraft equipment - another act of war.

Yes.
Its already there WW2.5. I disagree with Beau. Who the hell is that referee he keeps talking about? “Seen as an act of war” - BY WHO? PUTIN? FUCK PUTIN.
Anyway, at least put Europes aging F-16 fleet at Ukraines disposal. And if they lack pilots I am sure we can find outside pilot talent to join the cause.

 

[hal2kilo]

Wtf is that supposed to mean? Whats the value in that statement? Break it down for me… cause all I am getting is “we cant know anything anyway so why bother getting to know stuff”… besides that its an obvious oxymoron.

Winners write history.

 

[cytg111]

Winners write history.

- Bill Barr

 

[Homerboy]

One pussy noted.

You suited up and ready to go to war?

Recent wars have been fought when the American people didn't have to sacrifice. I think it's time now.

The US needs to organize a worldwide ban on Russian gas and oil. They would go broke within months.

An address needs to go out to the nation that we cannot allow this to happen in the world. Remember the lesson from 1939. The sacrifice will be in the increased costs of oil. Durning that address put up pictures of Russian troops, blown up buildings, refugees and dead people. This country needs to be slapped upside the head to get the point.

We also may need to open up to more drilling at least for now. Ultimately the long term goal is to transition away from fossil fuels but that is a ways off. At the same time continue the push to alternative fuel sources.

I can't disagree with any of this.

 

[HomerJS]

Might be time for Biden to do something illegal. It should be in the discussion phase.

Multination covert hit squad. Perhaps help organize an internal insurrection (that would be legal). Time to take Putin out. Did you see what he did to that family on an evacuation route?

Sometimes you have to break a few eggs.

BTW - I changed my vote. I'm open to a no-fly zone add long as it's multinational. Can't be US only. It must be the world against Putin.

 

[theeedude]

People if the Ukraine are ready to fight on the ground. What's needed is to fill gaps such as air defense and attack.

 

[dank69]

Is Russia making progress I'm not hearing about? Seems like every time they "occupy" a city, which hasn't been more than a handful of times since this started, they are killed, captured and ejected within 24 hours. Ukraine has more weapons now than when they started. Russian troops are out of food and abandoning this war in droves. Thousands of protesters have been arrested in Russia. They are moving to cut off all outside internet access and institute martial law this week. Their economy is obliterated. People are fleeing their country by the thousands.

Why the fuck are people pushing so hard to escalate when the war is already essentially over in everyone's head except for Putin's? I heard the Isreali PM went to talk some sense into Putin. Was there any news about how that went?