Should the US commit forces to directly combat Russia in Ukraine?

[Meghan54]

Sorry if I was unclear, the Soviets were never encircled at Stalingrad.

Odd…I have, over and over, seen written that, prior to Nov 19, the Germans had Stalingrad encircled. On the 19th, Soviets counterattacked, first with artillery, the Romanian troops of the Nazi forces since they were very green. Romanians broke, tens of thousands captured, and then pincered the Nazis and encircled them, even as the Nazis were encircling Stalingrad.

One “source”…

HISTORY

The HISTORY Channel - Geschichte erleben! The HISTORY Channel ist der deutschsprachige Pay-TV-Sender für spannende Dokumentationen und macht die Faszination von Menschen und Ereignissen täglich greifbar!

www.history.com

 

[BurnItDwn]

Thanks @uclaLabrat & @rommelrommel

 

[brycejones]

Odd…I have, over and over, seen written that, prior to Nov 19, the Germans had Stalingrad encircled. On the 19th, Soviets counterattacked, first with artillery, the Romanian troops of the Nazi forces since they were very green. Romanians broke, tens of thousands captured, and then pincered the Nazis and encircled them, even as the Nazis were encircling Stalingrad.

One “source”…

HISTORY

The HISTORY Channel - Geschichte erleben! The HISTORY Channel ist der deutschsprachige Pay-TV-Sender für spannende Dokumentationen und macht die Faszination von Menschen und Ereignissen täglich greifbar!

www.history.com

The Russians always had the ability to feed troops and supplies into the city. As your quote points out the Germans were encircled by the Russians in the later stages of the battle and forced to surrender.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Sorry if I was unclear, the Soviets were never encircled at Stalingrad.

Oh yeah that I agree with, if I recall the far bank of the Volga was never cleared.

 

[pmv]

Yes. Said countries has already instructed their citizens, all of them, that if you wanna go kill Russians in Ukraine then that is your personal provocative.

Well, they've made statements encouraging it, but then someone pointed out it's illegal to do so.

Liz Truss criticised for backing Britons who wish to fight in Ukraine

Present and former Conservatives warn that anyone volunteering for combat in embattled country will be breaking the law

www.theguardian.com

 

[cytg111]

Well, they've made statements encouraging it, but then someone pointed out it's illegal to do so.

Liz Truss criticised for backing Britons who wish to fight in Ukraine

Present and former Conservatives warn that anyone volunteering for combat in embattled country will be breaking the law

www.theguardian.com

Danish Prime Minister says go do your thing.
If its illegal you'd have a pretty good case when, if, you come home.

 

[DarthKyrie]

Sorry if I was unclear, the Soviets were never encircled at Stalingrad.

Very hard to encircle a city that sits on the banks of a river.

Odd…I have, over and over, seen written that, prior to Nov 19, the Germans had Stalingrad encircled. On the 19th, Soviets counterattacked, first with artillery, the Romanian troops of the Nazi forces since they were very green. Romanians broke, tens of thousands captured, and then pincered the Nazis and encircled them, even as the Nazis were encircling Stalingrad.

One “source”…

HISTORY

The HISTORY Channel - Geschichte erleben! The HISTORY Channel ist der deutschsprachige Pay-TV-Sender für spannende Dokumentationen und macht die Faszination von Menschen und Ereignissen täglich greifbar!

www.history.com

Volgograd sits on the west bank of the Volga River encirclement can't occur.

 

[rommelrommel]

Very hard to encircle a city that sits on the banks of a river.

I guess we're getting a bit off topic, but if not for Hitler meddling it would have been bypassed and encircled in depth probably. But the general point of it being hard to cut off a city without a complete encirclement is relevant.

 

[Puffnstuff]

It's slipped out that Russia's war plans include taking Moldova too. Perhaps this is why NATO is scrambling to get troops and equipment along their entire border with Russia.

 

[Jaskalas]

People, Americans, don't realize what direct US involvement would involve. We would be fighting against one of the largest military powers in the world and that would take commitment on the largest scale.

That's an odd notion, to ignore the information and lessons already arising from this war. Consider how much damage Ukraine is causing.

Special forces armed with portable anti air and drones, tucked away behind Ukrainian forces - would finish off the complete obliteration of Russian armor, transports, and air power. Ukrainians are fighting this war, we just need to tip the balance. Turkish Drones have already proven the death of Russian armor columns trapped on narrow roads. That destruction just needs to be maintained. Then it comes down to manpower, and while Russia could throw a lot of men... Ukraine is no pushover without Russian armor and air.

Again, we just need to tip the balance.

 

[Jaskalas]

To me it's a distinction without much of a difference, me firing a drone on the convoy vs me giving you a stinger and you fire it.

Professional strike teams backed by all our training, coms, intel, and other forces as needed. With near limitless supply to keep doing the job until it is done to our satisfaction.

I think the distinction of ensuring it is done is the big deal. Not sure how many losses the Ukrainians have suffered, or their supplies, but their normal forces can push forward while we provide the cover fire (drones, artillery), and anti air... in ways they might not be able to do, or sustain.

Also, why does Crimea still have bridges? Those all need to go.

 

[skyking]

Our satisfaction?
Glad you're not in charge.

 

[woolfe9998]

So I guess Finland, et al, don’t have any security anxieties vis a vis Russia? Seriously?

Yeah, no kidding, especially since the USSR already invaded Finland in 1939 and, after getting bogged down for several months, eventually USSR prevailed, forcing Finland to cede part of its country to them.

Given that history, and Putin's current militaristic behavior, I'd be concerned if I was them.

I'd fast track them if they want in. Putin will not attack a NATO country. They know they'll lose if they go to war with NATO.

 

[blackangst1]

No to US Involvement beyond sending weapons and supplies, diplomatic pressure and sanctions.

I'd love to see Sweden and Finland both join NATO, but I can see if they want to hold off just now while things are so tense. Better to wait until after Russians are walking home from Kyiv en masse, or Putin dies of lead poisoning.

Agree 100%

 

[Puffnstuff]

Seeing that 4 Russian MIGS violated Swedish airspace today in a flagrant act of provocation maybe they will.

 

[VRAMdemon]

As of now. No. Continue to do what we are doing with weapons and supplies, diplomatic pressure and sanctions. The Russians are currently shitting the bed as it is.

BUT! ...There are few circumstances that might make me reconsider:

1. Russian use of chemical weapons on civilian targets
2. Russian interference in a second country irrespective of NATO membership or allegiances. Sweden or Finland for example
3. Indiscriminate, prolonged carpet style bombing of civilian areas.

 

[iRONic]

4. Largest nuclear power plant bombed...?

 

[sportage]

OK Chicken Little…calm down and quit running in circles like your hair is on fire.

Sorry…I forgot. Your schtick is over-the-top panic.

Carry on with your self-induced panic…

I know you're upset and the stress of the day can get to people. People have been through covid and shutdowns and Trump and now a war where everyone is stressed. I get That. All that I can advise you is stay calm and don't take the things you can not control nor understand so seriously. You need to focus on your own mental health, seriously you should.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I'm from Buenos Aires, and I say kill 'em all!

- Given how often the world flat out forgets South America even exists, it seems like a really solid place to ride out the nuclear Holocaust.

Nuclear Strategic Commands probably won't even waste missiles on the entire continent. A post nuclear war world would be a very Latin one.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm now back to my original opinion since Russia started firing on a Ukraine nuclear power plant.

 

[pmv]

I'm now back to my original opinion since Russia started firing on a Ukraine nuclear power plant.

That did seem ever-so-slightly insane. I don't know about nuclear engineering, but, from what I remember of accounts of Chernobyl, isn't the danger that the cooling systems could be damaged, leading to a meltdown?

 

[mikeymikec]

That did seem ever-so-slightly insane. I don't know about nuclear engineering, but, from what I remember of accounts of Chernobyl, isn't the danger that the cooling systems could be damaged, leading to a meltdown?

No idea. My general opinion on nuclear energy is don't fuck with it unless you know what you're doing, and I doubt that the Russian forces are engaging in percussive maintenance.

 

[nOOky]

- Given how often the world flat out forgets South America even exists, it seems like a really solid place to ride out the nuclear Holocaust.

Nuclear Strategic Commands probably won't even waste missiles on the entire continent. A post nuclear war world would be a very Latin one.

I could see riding out the rest of my life in El Calafate, as long as the supply of Malbec still exists.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I could see riding out the rest of my life in El Calafate, as long as the supply of Malbec still exists.

I like this plan!

 

[K1052]

That did seem ever-so-slightly insane. I don't know about nuclear engineering, but, from what I remember of accounts of Chernobyl, isn't the danger that the cooling systems could be damaged, leading to a meltdown?

When the war broke out two reactors were already going offline for maintenance I think. As the Russians approached the station it looks like they scrammed all but one left to provide site power to essential systems. Even after a controlled shutdown (though especially a scram) cooling is still needed to remove decay heat. So the biggest risk is that the Russians would damage the power supplies or systems that energize the various cooling systems. This is why the fire breaking out was of enormous concern to basically everybody, the potential for this escalates. If the power was totally knocked out to a unit's cooling systems the decay heat would eventually boil off the water and the core would melt.

From what I've read the Russians hit one of the offline reactors containment doing damage. The other major damage was to an administrative building.