Should the dead pay back their medicare bills?

[xj0hnx]

Pretty much. That was the argument used for the death tax. The gov taxes inheritance of rich people because the kids didn't earn it? Well the gov didn't earn it either so wtf is this?

You will pay unto your government masters serf.

 

[Zebo]

Addressing Costs is only thing that's going to save us. Spending 10-100x per drug, per device, per procedure as rest of world is unsustainable no matter what you tax.

Unsustainable for govt, Unsustainable for Business. Unsustainable for Individual.

Do you realize you can fly to any country and have any surgery done for 1/5th what you pay here?

Drugs for 10-100x less?

etc.

That's why businesses are GTFO. Costs to much to provide HC.

 

[woolfe9999]

Addressing Costs is only thing that's going to save us. Spending 10-100x per drug, per device, per procedure as rest of world is unsustainable no matter what you tax.

Unsustainable for govt, Unsustainable for Business. Unsustainable for Individual.

Do you realize you can fly to any country and have any surgery done for 1/5th what you pay here?

Drugs for 10-100x less?

etc.

That's why businesses are GTFO. Costs to much to provide HC.

You're 100% correct, that addressing costs is the only real, long term solution. However, there appears to be an insurmountable ideological divide on how to solve this problem or, indeed, some seem to think there isn't even a problem. Accordingly, we have no choice but to address this Medicare crisis by any other means possible.

 

[Zebo]

True. To much money interests making the calls via contributions and to much ideological "free market" mindset to overcome any time soon. Basically we're going to go broke. Industry will continue to leave to other first world country where HC is universal and cheap. Govt will continue to take people on their rolls and run 2+Trillion dollar debt until we are insolvent. They'll prolly tax everything we own too including retirements and inheritance since we are all joint and severally liable for that debt.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I can only see this working as a part of inheritance tax once an exemption amount has been passed. To give an example if an estate was over the exemption level of say $3mil then medicare would be repayed 100% and to the extent that the estate exceeded $3mil+medicare repayment then it would be taxed at the inheritance rate of 45%

Otherwise as stated earlier it would wipe out the estates of most working families.


And yes the real problem is cost containment, we have pretended for waaaay to long that healthcare pricing could and should be maintained by free market supply and demand principles. And because of this we have created an intitled class of healthcare providers that believe just because they are a doctor, dentist, drug co. exec, health insurance exec, etc... that they deserve rockstar money. And have no problem charging a working mans annual salary for a relatively simple 2hr procedure

Had a buddy that died of pancreatic cancer last year. His total treatments consisted of 2 1hr surgeries to put in stents, aprox 12days total stay in a county hospital, and a handful of spot radiation treatments done on an outpatient basis and his bills from the hospital, surgeon, oncologist and radiologist totalled $266,000. So far beyond ridiculous it's madening

 

[Throckmorton]

That's not how insurance works... Medicare is insurance. Not a savings plan.

 

[Zebo]

I can only see this working as a part of inheritance tax once an exemption amount has been passed. To give an example if an estate was over the exemption level of say $3mil then medicare would be repayed 100% and to the extent that the estate exceeded $3mil+medicare repayment then it would be taxed at the inheritance rate of 45%

Otherwise as stated earlier it would wipe out the estates of most working families.


And yes the real problem is cost containment, we have pretended for waaaay to long that healthcare pricing could and should be maintained by free market supply and demand principles. And because of this we have created an intitled class of healthcare providers that believe just because they are a doctor, dentist, drug co. exec, health insurance exec, etc... that they deserve rockstar money. And have no problem charging a working mans annual salary for a relatively simple 2hr procedure :(

Had a buddy that died of pancreatic cancer last year. His total treatments consisted of 2 1hr surgeries to put in stents, aprox 12days total stay in a county hospital, and a handful of spot radiation treatments done on an outpatient basis and his bills from the hospital, surgeon, oncologist and radiologist totalled $266,000. So far beyond ridiculous it's madening

It's NOT free market unless you mean a free market to charge what they will for monopoly licenses.

Thing is other places say, sure will give you license/patent to make some cash, but we say how much.

I was in hospital one day for a tune up on a old break from 17 years ago
Basically they re-broke my leg and did this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKeJd0j2J4E

Cost $44,000

Asked my cousin who lives in Sweden to check into it for me.. would have cost 5K there.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Simply put, every single middle class person would have 100% of their estate taken by the government. My parents house is worth maybe 1/3 of a million, but a couple month stay in a US hospital easily costs that much. People in first world countries tend to have long hospital stays near the end.

One thing I have consistently heard on this forum is how the older generation is screwing the younger. "They're spending all our money on their selfish selves" sort of thing.

Well, perhaps here's a partial solution. They spend their money on themselves and that means less they take from social services. This should make the younger folks happier. Well it won't because they won't get that inheritance.

Seems there's some justice to this.

 

[JSt0rm]

This is one of the most ironic things. Liberals are the ones who support right to die, but liberals are the ones who want the government to keep people alive as long as possible. Conservatives are often against right to die for religious reasons, but conservatives are also against keeping people alive when they can't afford it.

wtf?
New idea: free healthcare like Canada has and have suicide booths on every block. My uncle's hospital stay was free when he was dying from cancer, but I'm pretty sure he didn't want to be there. He looked terrible and was sick all the time. Helping him die would have been a lot more humane, and it would even cost less. Everybody wins.

I think you will find boberfett's views to be very eh, unique.

 

[woolfe9999]

I can only see this working as a part of inheritance tax once an exemption amount has been passed. To give an example if an estate was over the exemption level of say $3mil then medicare would be repayed 100% and to the extent that the estate exceeded $3mil+medicare repayment then it would be taxed at the inheritance rate of 45%

Otherwise as stated earlier it would wipe out the estates of most working families.


And yes the real problem is cost containment, we have pretended for waaaay to long that healthcare pricing could and should be maintained by free market supply and demand principles. And because of this we have created an intitled class of healthcare providers that believe just because they are a doctor, dentist, drug co. exec, health insurance exec, etc... that they deserve rockstar money. And have no problem charging a working mans annual salary for a relatively simple 2hr procedure

Had a buddy that died of pancreatic cancer last year. His total treatments consisted of 2 1hr surgeries to put in stents, aprox 12days total stay in a county hospital, and a handful of spot radiation treatments done on an outpatient basis and his bills from the hospital, surgeon, oncologist and radiologist totalled $266,000. So far beyond ridiculous it's madening

I like this idea. Would seem to address the main objection so far. Wouldn't bring in as much revenue to address the problem, but any additional revenue helps. I also like it better than simply means testing on the way in. If you say that the wealthy can't receive benefits, then there is the objection that they paid into the system and got nothing out. This way you take it out of their estate and deduct from that whatever taxes they paid in, so they break even.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's NOT free market unless you mean a free market to charge what they will for monopoly licenses. Thing is other places say, sure will give you license/patent to make some cash, but we say how much. I was in hospital one day for a tune up on a old break from 17 years ago Basically they re-broke my leg and did this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKeJd0j2J4E Cost $44,000 Asked my cousin who lives in Sweden to check into it for me.. would have cost 5K there.

5k plus the taxes they pay.

The solution is to give the government absolute power to dictate what people can make. Not just health care workers, but everyone. Everyone takes a pay cut.

 

[OlafSicky]

How about we actually learn to let people die with dignity in this country instead of keeping everyone alive hooked up to dozens of machines for a few extra weeks at a massive cost to society?

I 100% agree with you. I don't understand how in our culture we are obligated to keep people alive at any cost, even if it needlessly prolongs their suffering.
If you have seen anyone on their death bed in hospital it is just horrible. Recently I had an old family friend get sick and eventually die. He was subjected to couple of surgeries and some treatments etc. All along everybody knew he wasn't going to make it. Instead of dying in a day or a week he spend two months in the hospital most of that time on strong pain medication. The outcome stayed the same, the only thing different in this case was the cost.

 

[Fern]

I suppose I don't understand Medicare enough to even begin considering this.

If Medicare is HI, what HC bills do you have that need paid in the first place? Doesn't Medicare pay them?

Is it co-pays, deductibles?

Fern

 

[DaveJ]

I 100% agree with you. I don't understand how in our culture we are obligated to keep people alive at any cost, even if it needlessly prolongs their suffering.
If you have seen anyone on their death bed in hospital it is just horrible. Recently I had an old family friend get sick and eventually die. He was subjected to couple of surgeries and some treatments etc. All along everybody knew he wasn't going to make it. Instead of dying in a day or a week he spend two months in the hospital most of that time on strong pain medication. The outcome stayed the same, the only thing different in this case was the cost.

Yeah, a similar thing happened to my grandmother when she died in 2008. She actually coded once but they brought her back, only to die a few days later when the rest of her body started shutting down. I wish more people thought about quality-of-life issues rather than just "quantity-of-life". What good is living if you spend your days in massive pain, hooked up to a bunch of machines?

 

[Zebo]

5k plus the taxes they pay.

The solution is to give the government absolute power to dictate what people can make. Not just health care workers, but everyone. Everyone takes a pay cut.

I pretty sure it would be "free" for natives.

HC is out of control and they pretty much have you "over the barrel", take this, or else. Most people don't like dying so they pay. It's not like a Briney Spear album where you can take it or leave it.

Companies have abused their monopoly positions govt gives them I don't see why they can't take it away a bit. I think that titanium plate alone was $2800 ridiculous. Medical devices, HIC, pharma all of them abusing.

 

[JS80]

That's not how insurance works... Medicare is insurance. Not a savings plan.

Insurance schemes are designed to be solvent. Medicare is not. Therefore Medicare is not insurance.

Medicare is wealth transfer.

As for OP's idea, it will not work.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I pretty sure it would be "free" for natives.

HC is out of control and they pretty much have you "over the barrel", take this, or else. Most people don't like dying so they pay. It's not like a Briney Spear album where you can take it or leave it.

Companies have abused their monopoly positions govt gives them I don't see why they can't take it away a bit. I think that titanium plate alone was $2800 ridiculous. Medical devices, HIC, pharma all of them abusing.

Things are fantastically expensive without doubt. The problem is who gets hit for this? What happens is that the practitioners have their reimbursements cut but they have continually rising costs which are beyond their control? No one has bothered to look into that part of the equation. In fact it seems to have been pointedly ignored.

 

[nobodyknows]

I agree with you on point number 1, regarding middle class estates, to some extent. However, with respect to paying twice, I will for the third time point out that this is addressed in my OP:

The author leaves on the table the idea that all Medicare taxes paid during your lifetime would be deducted from the final bill, so you aren't paying into a system then giving back all the benefits you got at the end.

So there is no paying twice.

Anyone else want to raise objections already addressed?

So that would be all Medicare taxes paid + whatever the dow jones has risen since then, compouned anually of course.

 

[Zebo]

Things are fantastically expensive without doubt. The problem is who gets hit for this? What happens is that the practitioners have their reimbursements cut but they have continually rising costs which are beyond their control? No one has bothered to look into that part of the equation. In fact it seems to have been pointedly ignored.

Practitioners I'm sure feel squeezed between medicare/insurance and product. But I'm not crying for them just yet.. My bro owns a rural pharmacy nets out about 400k that orthopod nets over a mil.


Edit

But besides all these millionaire care givers, you have Hospital, pharma, and insurance execs worth hundreds of millions and one doesn't even contribute to care. It's just too much. And at this point I'm afraid will bury us when rest of world spends a fraction on HC as cost of doing business as we do.

It's not an accident all those engine plants moved to Ontario and companies continue to leave. Outrageous HC which BTW does not even cover everyone, while immaterial to cost it's illustrative of just how outrageous it is.

 

[woolfe9999]

Things are fantastically expensive without doubt. The problem is who gets hit for this? What happens is that the practitioners have their reimbursements cut but they have continually rising costs which are beyond their control? No one has bothered to look into that part of the equation. In fact it seems to have been pointedly ignored.

The costs paid by practitioners (equipment being a rather large one) are set by the free market, according to principles of supply and demand. The problem with a healthcare system operating on free market principles is not only high doctor pay, it's also the high costs that doctors have to pay to operate. If there is a solution to this in a free market system, I'm not aware of it.

 

[Darwin333]

What happens if I give most/all of what I own to relatives as Birthday and Christmas presents right before I die?

Depending on how much you have the .gov takes roughly half of the gifts.

 

[God Mode]

Give me half the money that would be spent on my medical care during my final days and I'll pull the plug myself before it reaches that point. It would be nice to leave that money to family or friends instead of the bloated medical industry.

 

[Zebo]

I think it's only a matter of time until we'll have euthanasia.

 

[BoberFett]

Addressing Costs is only thing that's going to save us. Spending 10-100x per drug, per device, per procedure as rest of world is unsustainable no matter what you tax.

Unsustainable for govt, Unsustainable for Business. Unsustainable for Individual.

Do you realize you can fly to any country and have any surgery done for 1/5th what you pay here?

Drugs for 10-100x less?

etc.

That's why businesses are GTFO. Costs to much to provide HC.

My grandmother died recently leaving behind an electric scooter. My dad tried to sell it, but couldn't find a buyer no matter how low he priced it? Why? Because Medicare picks up the tab on those things. The original price? Around $5,000. How much does it cost to build one those things? $500-1,000? It's an electric motor, a battery, a bit of wiring, a plastic housing and a seat. It just can't cost that much to build. But the government will gladly fork over a massive amount of money for each one. Does anyone really think government run health care would change anything? The system is a money grab from top to bottom and broken beyond repair.

This country will have to fail economically before anything changes.

 

[JSt0rm]

My grandmother died recently leaving behind an electric scooter. My dad tried to sell it, but couldn't find a buyer no matter how low he priced it? Why? Because Medicare picks up the tab on those things. The original price? Around $5,000. How much does it cost to build one those things? $500-1,000? It's an electric motor, a battery, a bit of wiring, a plastic housing and a seat. It just can't cost that much to build. But the government will gladly fork over a massive amount of money for each one. Does anyone really think government run health care would change anything? The system is a money grab from top to bottom and broken beyond repair.

This country will have to fail economically before anything changes.

Wait are you saying, as a libertarian, that the company who makes those scooters shouldn't be making a profit?